marvel Falcon and the Winter Soldier

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There was one of these for WandaVision, so I guess now there's one for Falcon and the Winter Soldier. 

[Tacitus]

I guess there is.

[Orlion Blight]

Episode 1: Hey look, it's the Falcon! And hey, look! It's the Winter Soldier! 

And that's not Chris Evans! 

It's probably Mephisto in disguise! 

[Spren of Kindness]

How good is it?  How impatient should I be to kick my family out of the house for ___ blank hours so I can watch it?

Quote

Is this one creepy because I've only got one allotment of brainspace a year for scary media, and WandaVision's going to take all of it.

 

[Enter a username]

35 minutes ago, Spren of Kindness said:

How good is it?  How impatient should I be to kick my family out of the house for ___ blank hours so I can watch it?

If it's going to be anything like WandaVision, wait until it's done. Don't torture yourself with cliffhangers.

32 minutes ago, Spren of Kindness said:

Is this one creepy because I've only got one allotment of brainspace a year for scary media, and WandaVision's going to take all of it.

No. No, I don't think it will. 

39 minutes ago, Orlionra said:

Episode 1: Hey look, it's the Falcon! And hey, look! It's the Winter Soldier! 

And that's not Chris Evans! 

It's probably Mephisto in disguise! 

It's probably that one super strong guy seen earlier in the episode!

[danex]

9 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

It's probably that one super strong guy seen earlier in the episode!

Nah, def Mephisto in disguise. 

[Hen]

17 hours ago, Omi the Counselor said:

I guess there is.

That pretty much sums up how I feel about the show right now. 

I really hope it’s gonna be great and I’m excited, but the first episode was a little... meh

[Use the Falchion]

22 hours ago, Spren of Kindness said:

How good is it?  How impatient should I be to kick my family out of the house for ___ blank hours so I can watch it?

So far, VERY good. The first episode was a slow-burn, not unlike the first three of WandaVision; but it does start out with a kick-butt action scene. The rest of the slow-burn is all character, and it's good. 

Six hours total is what I think the report is, so roughly 40-50 minutes per episode. Right now, I think waiting isn't a bad thing. FATWS is looking to be a more straightforward show than WandaVision...then again, we're only on the first episode. WandaVision was weird, but it didn't get plot-bendy until later episodes. So who knows! 

[Use the Falchion]

FATWS went there there, and I'm so glad they did. The more shows that address racial issues (including but not limited: profiling, blatant unfair treatment, experimentation, erasure from history, and criminal injustice), the better. FATWS is uniquely situated to do this as well, since taking on the mantle of Captain America means taking on the good with the bad...which means acknowledging the bad in the first place. I cannot wait to see how the show addresses this. 

[danex]

My biggest complaint with the show right now is that the banter between the two main characters feels kinda forced. The dynamic is just...rather awkward. Hopefully it gets better as the show goes on and the actors get more used to being on set with each other.
Also, is it just me, or did this episode feel like almost entirely filler. Barely anything happened that was actually related to the overall plot. The scenes with the flagsmashers POV was basically the only plot movement we got. Kinda feels like the Mandalorian, that show had a bunch of filler episodes, especially in season 1. 

Other than that I think it’s pretty good. The fight scenes are very nice. I hope we get to see old Cap again, it seems like the show is setting itself up for that. It didn’t have to bring up the mystery of “maybe he’s still alive”, but it did, and if that isn’t a Chekhov’s Gun I don’t know what is. 

[Philomath]

I’m liking the show so far. It is more of a slow burn but I am fine with that. I am definitely liking the character explorations. And, even more so than in WandaVision, we are getting even more into the complications of returning half the population back after the Blip. I am loving seeing the fallout of how “saving the day” for our heroes doesn’t end up with a nice and tidy happily ever after. Some of my more specific thoughts so far:

Spoiler

My two main things I’m curious about right now are the Flag Smashers. They are clearly up to some not so great stuff, and their goals are still slightly unclear, but it is at least implied that they felt like during the 5 years, there was less of the “haves vs have nots.” And maybe they are trying to level the playing field again. Which makes them more grey in my book.

I also think it is interesting how this new Captain America is being used as government propaganda just like Steve Rogers was initially. While Steve eventually preferred to stick to his own moral code (not a bad one either) which led him to eventually be on the run from the very government that used him, I am curious to see how this new “Cap’s” arc will go. 

 

[BreezeCauthon]

Opinion that might be unpopular: I, at least so far, have absolutely no problems with John Walker.

[Orlion Blight]

12 minutes ago, BreezeCauthon said:

Opinion that might be unpopular: I, at least so far, have absolutely no problems with John Walker.

Speaking strictly about this story? I don't think you are supposed to. 

Right now the only reason folks would have a problem with him is because of the comics... and honestly, they should know better by now that the MCU plays fast and loose with the comic source material. 

[Philomath]

10 hours ago, BreezeCauthon said:

Opinion that might be unpopular: I, at least so far, have absolutely no problems with John Walker.

I don’t yet either. Like I said in my post, I am really curious to see where he goes. It doesn’t seem like he will be completely content to be just government propaganda. But I could see him potentially trying too hard to live up to the “Captain America” idealized version and somehow missing the morals that Steve Rogers used to guide him. 

10 hours ago, Orlionra said:

Speaking strictly about this story? I don't think you are supposed to. 

Right now the only reason folks would have a problem with him is because of the comics... and honestly, they should know better by now that the MCU plays fast and loose with the comic source material. 

I know nothing of the comics so have no idea where his story goes in them. But it seems like the MCU is good at telling satisfying stories (for the most part) so I trust that however it goes they will be trying to do it well even if it differs from the source material. 

[Channelknight Fadran]

I'd like to point out that Bucky read the version of the Hobbit where Gollum gives Bilbo the ring, not the version where Bilbo finds and steals it.

Alrighty, I've said my say. Peace out!

[+JesterLavorre]

So far I’m really liking getting to know Bucky and Falcon a lot more. I never really felt like they were well-developed enough in the movies (not due to any fault of writers, they just didn’t have the time to spend on them). I really like both of them individually, though I don’t love their dynamic together.

[Use the Falchion]

15 hours ago, BreezeCauthon said:

Opinion that might be unpopular: I, at least so far, have absolutely no problems with John Walker.

Definitely not unpopular! Sam and Bucky were definitely jerks to John; but on the flip side, it's not hard to see the cracks in John form pretty easily as well. He wants to be the best Captain America, but right now he has a...limited view of that that means. John is the good soldier with good intentions, but that doesn't mean he's a good man. 

Captain America was a symbol for more than just his country, and that's not who John is at this time. When things looked bad or murky, Steve would investigate and go rogue if needed; John is playing by the rules for system that wants to go back to the old rules despite it being a new game, to finish up the metaphor.

There are potential hints that John isn't all we see of him, despite how hard he tries. Examples: 

Spoiler

His girlfriend/lover/wife (I'm murky on their relationship) and best friend's interactions could be read as asking about someone they care for, or as two handlers assessing the mental stability of their agent. 

Battlestar remarks that John "can't punch his way out of things anymore," which could either mean that he has more pomp and circumstance to deal with, or that he has a violent history that may have landed him in some tricky situations previously. 

John's desire to work with Falcon & Bucky seemed legitimate up until he mentioned how he'd look more legitimate with an endorsement. 

John's growing facial hair may symbolize the lack of self-care, which usually is equated to a lack of emotional peace. It's like a variation of the Beard of Sorrow trope. 

And lastly, John's "stay out of my way" line at the end of the episode feels very much like a "you're either with me or you're against me" threat. 

 

Also, just a quick note from re-watching the first episode with a friend - Sam's desire to hold onto his family's legacy is nicely juxtaposed with his desire not to hold onto Cap's. What he needs to do with one he's doing with another...or rather, he needs to find the purpose and balance with both. When we get to Episode 2, I'll look over John's attitude for any other potential clues as to his fate. 

[TheGirlWhoLookedUp]

some memes I thought of while watching the last couple episodes

Bucky’s therapist in ep. 2

Spoiler

Bucky in ep. 3

Spoiler

 

[Philomath]

Gah. Both this show and WandaVision clearly took Brandon’s advice on how to end a chapter leaving people wanting more. The whole “show who’s behind the door, not just the mystery of who’s behind the door.” It’s fine for a chapter in a book, but it’s killing me having to wait a week between episodes. And is this season really only 6 episodes? Halfway through already. I am enjoying this. Definitely not as flashy or fast paced as the movies, but I am okay with it. 

[Philomath]

Apologies for the double post. But I can’t stop thinking about episode 4! Guys it’s killing me. My 4 year old wore a shirt the other day with the Captain America shield and I just hurt inside seeing it. Storm you John Walker! 

I just want to say the flashback scene at the beginning was absolutely beautiful. So well done. I felt every bit of Bucky’s fear, then relief. What an absolutely amazing piece of film. 

I agree with so much that Sam says in this episode. I actually really can get behind Karli and the Flag Smashers and what they are trying to accomplish. Just not how they are doing it. But I also get that they feel like there is no other way and that is just being made more apparent to them. Sam and his arc this episode were really good. I appreciate what he is trying to do. 

So much of this series, but particularly this episode, leaves me thinking about what it really means to be a hero. And how much we are impacted emotionally by storytelling and narrative as humans. Like the story is telling us that our heroes are Bucky and Sam. So we cheer for them and what they stand for. And John Walker was set up as something of an antagonist to them so we don’t like him. Which colors our perceptions of his actions this episode even more. So it just makes me wonder if we had been told from the beginning that this is John Walker’s story and he is the “hero” if we would find his actions more acceptable. We also have Zemo back in the story making us ask similar questions. He is not a good person. But he is currently doing some seemingly good things. I really just love how Phase 4 of the MCU is operating so much more in the grey. It really makes you think. 

All that being said, I come down on the side that what John Walker did compared to our other heroes was absolutely wrong. In general, while our past heroes have killed people, they are generally trying to see that justice is served, and that they are not the ones that get to be judge, jury, and executioner. They generally are trying to protect others and themselves. If they have a legitimate way to stop the villain without killing them, they take it. John Walker had a chance to take that Flag Smasher into custody. He chose violence instead. Brutal violence. That ultimately didn’t even serve a greater purpose. There was nothing gained in that man’s death. 

I want to give major props to all the actors in this show. They are portraying these characters so well. I love that I feel strong hatred for John Walker. That is so much better than apathy or disinterest. I love that Zemo makes me question who he is and what he is doing. I love Sam and Bucky trying their best to do what they feel is right.

I don’t know how they wrap everything up in the last 2 episodes. It seems like there is still so much to resolve. And I still don’t quite know where this leads in the grand scheme of the MCU. Do some of the Wakandan threads stay unresolved and lead into Black Panther 2? Does this just stay a tv series with multiple seasons? Does it lead into a different movie that I know nothing about? (I’ve never read the comics, so I don’t know if these characters connect with some of the new heroes we are supposed to be introduced to in the next few years.)

[Use the Falchion]

1 hour ago, Philomath said:

So it just makes me wonder if we had been told from the beginning that this is John Walker’s story and he is the “hero” if we would find his actions more acceptable.

I'd like to say that we'd find his actions more sympathetic and understandable than acceptable, but then I wonder...if we saw how much Lamar meant to John, and how Lamar was there for John through thick and then (or, as someone wielding that shield once said, was "with him until the end of the line,"), maybe we might be cheering the violence on. And that's a scary thought. 

 

Overall, I agree with a lot of what you said in this episode, and I think this is the first time that Sam really showed why he was chosen to be Captain America over someone like John or even Bucky. We always knew Sam was a good man, and while that is the core criteria, here we get to see how good a man he is.* John has this instinctive need to act, to do what he believes is the right thing. Steve had this too, but it was always rooted in compassion. Here, for John, it's rooted in control, fear and ultimately failure. John feels like he needs to be Captain America, and he's clearly failing. He can't stop the Flag Smashers, Sam & Bucky not only snub off his clear (and deeply, DEEPLY flawed) attempts at some sort of alliance but are getting better results to boot, and no one respects him. He's starting to realize he's playing in a game where the rules he's been taught and lived by don't really apply. He's a solid soldier, but a solid soldier isn't always a good man. Meanwhile Sam - like Steve - doesn't care about that. Sam wants to know the "why" behind the actions. He's looking to address the cause, not the symptoms, and is always looking to help people out. Sam's willingness to go into a situation that may be dangerous unarmed and simply talk to his enemy to find some sort of common ground is brilliant. He's a good man. 

But that's what this show seems to really be about at its core - asking what a hero is and what a symbol is in this modern age. Is it the sterile, idealized version of a person with their sins washed away like Steve nowadays? Is it the bloodstained reality of our failures and flawed attempts like John? Or can it be something else? Something that understands the broken (Zemo, and Bucky), forgotten (Sharon, Isaiah, the Flag-Smashers, and the Displaced), and failure (John), yet still striving to be whole? This is the path that Sam is ultimately on. Or so I think. 

 

1 hour ago, Philomath said:

I don’t know how they wrap everything up in the last 2 episodes. It seems like there is still so much to resolve.

I feel the exact same. It'd probably be for the best if they split this up into two seasons. 

 

1 hour ago, Philomath said:

Does this just stay a tv series with multiple seasons? Does it lead into a different movie that I know nothing about?

There have been some discussions on whether this may be the case, with some fans preferring this and for Season 2 to be called "Captain America & the White Wolf" while others prefer a movie. Frankly I'd prefer both. Give me a season that wraps up these loose ends called "Captain America & the White Wolf," and then give me a movie about racism and supremacy within the US military and police system. (In my head I call this Captain America: Sins of the Patriot and the main villain would the Sinthea aka Sin Schmidt, (grand-)daughter of the Red Skull.)

 

1 hour ago, Philomath said:

Do some of the Wakandan threads stay unresolved and lead into Black Panther 2?

We know that the MCU has a Wakanda D+ show in the works now, but I'm not sure if we know anything more about it. There are also rumors about the Thunderbolts (a group of villains with good publicity IIRC, masquerading as "reformed villains") appearing, so Zemo may be part of that. However,

 

[Minor Spoilers that talk about the latest "Two Episodes Left Trailer"]

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure we saw him in the trailer for the final two episodes, so I don't think he gets away for long. 

 

 

 

*Also, if you ever find yourself in a fictional world with a friend with Sam in his name, you're good. You've got yourself a Ride-Or-Die homie who will help you save the day. Look at LOTR, the MCU, and even GOT. Sam's are the best. 

[Use the Falchion]

I'm still watching my John Rocha review of episode 4, and today/tomorrow's review will mean that I have even more to watch. So...yay?

Anyways, Episode 4 was my favorite of the bunch...until I watched today's episode with my family. "Truth" hits hard. It's brutal, and I'm not just talking about the fight scenes. There are a lot of emotions, talks, and truths (heh) that the characters have to deal with, and not all of them are willing to do so. Characters that you thought might be allies turn out to be enemies because of their truths.

That doesn't mean it's all dour though. This episode has some of the best laughs and warmest moments in the entire show as well. It's an emotion-filled episode, full of highs, lows, tears and smiles. You'd be surprised at how well this moves some of the plots along as well. It's far from a perfect episode, but it does lead into the finale with a level finality I wasn't expecting this series to have.

FATWS doesn't shy away from some of the grittier aspects of the black experience and ideology, and I'm so happy it doesn't. This show has been very cathartic in a lot of ways, especially after the released footage last night.

[BreezeCauthon]

On 3/28/2021 at 8:42 AM, BreezeCauthon said:

Opinion that might be unpopular: I, at least so far, have absolutely no problems with John Walker.

This comment aged poorly.

[NottTheBrave]

This has been my favorite MCU project in quite some time.  Absolutely love how much time its spent on the characters getting to live and breath.  I love seeing what Bucky and Sam do when they are not heroing it up.  I love getting to know them in more depth, getting more context to their actions.  I enjoy that even more than the action, which has also been quite good. 

Even more than that, getting to see them talk and spend time with the villains was great too.  Zemo has rocketed up there to maybe my favorite MCU villain, simply because we get to see him a LOT more, and get a more nuanced take on his pov.  John Walker has been excellent too.  You know the majority of people would have done exactly what he did, and thats w the difference between Steve Rogers and a normal person.  Highlights that so well.

Then we have all the OTHER stuff going on.  A fascinating discussion on race that didn't go the way I feared (IE, Racisim isn't a problem now old man, everything is hunky dory, just gotta believe!), and instead offered up some good food for thought.  Good world building with the post blip politics, with another new villain who might have had admirable goals, but is leaning too far into their darkness.  Can't wait to see how it wraps up, and see Sam's Captain America film announced for 2023 or 2024.

[Use the Falchion]

Season Finale is done!

And what a morning this has been - the finale, family friends announcing a pregnancy, and MHA's latest fan translations!

The final episode of FATWS was a very solid one that stuck the landing in a lot of ways, but felt like it took shortcuts to do so. Certain character arcs needed more time to breathe (which they probably originally had, given at least one story arc was cut from the show). But the action was on-point, as were most of the big (and small) character moments. As is the case with Marvel lately, their best moments have been the non-action moments, where characters can live, breathe, and talk. The ending also hit harder than I expected in the best of ways. And it looks like Sam has mastered Steve's ability to give epic speeches! (His main one hits really, REALLY hard. It's sort of surface level, but it's also one of those things that needs to be said again, and again, and again until people finally get it.)

Overall, this wasn't my favorite episode, but it's one that sticks a solid landing in a season that I was quite afraid wouldn't at times. There aren't many twists, but knowing the outcome isn't bad if the journey to get there is well-done. And this one is.

EDIT: This is a show that would have been great to have dropped last summer with all of the BLM movements; but this week was also an appropriate time for it as well, considering the good and the bad of what has happened. Life works in funny ways some times...