therunner Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 Hello, I was thinking about godmetals/their alloys and who could burn them. Since Leras had to "hack" allomancy to allow for atium mistings, and mistings seem to be able to burn only their metal, I am thinking that mistings cannot burn godmetals or their alloys at all. The exception to this would be lerasium and its alloys as those seem to be burnable by anyone, even non-Scadrians. This would make only mistborn able to burn godmetals (with some caveats, as in an older WoB Brandon stated that metalborn might need some tie to that kind of investiture, https://wob.coppermind.net/events/196/#e4205) If this line of thinking is correct, then someone using hemalurgy to steal all 16 usual A-metallic abilities might still not be equivalent to mistborn, as they only stole the ability to use individual metals, not the more general metalburning essence of mistborn. This would make natural born mistborn (or lerasium mistborn) the only true mistborn able to burn the godmetals and alloys. Is there some information, or a catch I have missed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSuperLee Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 I believe you are correct here, and I know there has been some discussion (and complaints) about how burning godmetals in general doesn't make sense because mistborn should lack a connection to the shard and thus be unable to access their investiture, but regardless, based on what we've seen, you would have to be a true mistborn to be able to burn godmetals. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 Can a mistborn burn a shards godmetal like bavadium for an example? why would they be able to 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted March 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said: Can a mistborn burn a shards godmetal like bavadium for an example? why would they be able to Well there is a WoB that while hard to achieve a Mistborn Spoiler could burn a piece of shardblade (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402/#e13315) which is godmetal alloy. I was curious if my line of thinking (that 16 spikes would not be enough, and mistborn are a bit more) sounds right to others, or if there was something I did not notice. In era 4 of Scadrial this distinction could prove quite important, as it would mean that most of those thousands of alloys potentially available will not actually be usable by anyone (as they would need full mistborn abilites + link to those other godmetals) Spoiler Although Hoid could actually take advantage of that, as he is lerasium mistborn now, and would have link to other shards investiture systems. This would potentially give him a connection to those other godmetals, which might be enough to let him burn their godmetals and their alloys. Edited March 21, 2021 by therunner added the last paragraph 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 It seems from that type of WoB is that the hard thing to do might be Connected yourself to Honor like Leras did to Atium https://wob.coppermind.net/events/196/#e4205 This says (if I copied the right WoB) that the Mistborn would need a connection to honor to burn a Shardblade 6 minutes ago, therunner said: will not actually be usable by anyone (as they would need full mistborn abilites + link to those other godmetals) Harmony can make some Lerasium and it can be made somehow from some weird way 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parzival Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 On 3/21/2021 at 4:01 AM, therunner said: Hello, I was thinking about godmetals/their alloys and who could burn them. Since Leras had to "hack" allomancy to allow for atium mistings, and mistings seem to be able to burn only their metal, I am thinking that mistings cannot burn godmetals or their alloys at all. The exception to this would be lerasium and its alloys as those seem to be burnable by anyone, even non-Scadrians. This would make only mistborn able to burn godmetals (with some caveats, as in an older WoB Brandon stated that metalborn might need some tie to that kind of investiture, https://wob.coppermind.net/events/196/#e4205) If this line of thinking is correct, then someone using hemalurgy to steal all 16 usual A-metallic abilities might still not be equivalent to mistborn, as they only stole the ability to use individual metals, not the more general metalburning essence of mistborn. This would make natural born mistborn (or lerasium mistborn) the only true mistborn able to burn the godmetals and alloys. Is there some information, or a catch I have missed? I bet there would be a way using hemalurgy to steal a mistborn's ability to burn god metals along with their other powers, but in general I definitely agree. A standard inquisitor or other hemalurgist couldn't match a mistborn in raw strength either due to hemalurgic decay. Its generally just best to be born with the powers or to get some lerasium. On 3/21/2021 at 9:42 AM, HSuperLee said: I believe you are correct here, and I know there has been some discussion (and complaints) about how burning godmetals in general doesn't make sense because mistborn should lack a connection to the shard and thus be unable to access their investiture, but regardless, based on what we've seen, you would have to be a true mistborn to be able to burn godmetals. Doesn't the metal act as a realmatic key tho? So its opening the door to letting you use the investiture even if you don't have direct connection to that shard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted March 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Parzival said: I bet there would be a way using hemalurgy to steal a mistborn's ability to burn god metals along with their other powers, but in general I definitely agree. A standard inquisitor or other hemalurgist couldn't match a mistborn in raw strength either due to hemalurgic decay. Its generally just best to be born with the powers or to get some lerasium. Yeah, I think using either well placed atium spike in addition to the 16 other spikes, or lerasium spike could be way to go to steal the entire 'mistborn' set. (if 'Steals all abilities' also means magical ones). 6 minutes ago, Parzival said: Doesn't the metal act as a realmatic key tho? So its opening the door to letting you use the investiture even if you don't have direct connection to that shard. I think there are 2 things happening, with ordinary metals (so one of the 16) the metal acts as a key and a keyhole for Preservation/Harmony investiture which fuels the effect. With godmetals I think it is the metal itself that fuels its effect, as it is some kind of investiture anyway, we see this with Atium in HoA where the burning of it was used to temporarily weaken Ruin. With godmetals of other shards, I think the metalborn would need some Connection to that shard to be able to burn it, sort of like Vin could feel Sazed metalminds, but because of Identity she could not do anything with them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parzival Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 34 minutes ago, therunner said: I think there are 2 things happening, with ordinary metals (so one of the 16) the metal acts as a key and a keyhole for Preservation/Harmony investiture which fuels the effect. With godmetals I think it is the metal itself that fuels its effect, as it is some kind of investiture anyway, we see this with Atium in HoA where the burning of it was used to temporarily weaken Ruin. With godmetals of other shards, I think the metalborn would need some Connection to that shard to be able to burn it, sort of like Vin could feel Sazed metalminds, but because of Identity she could not do anything with them. I see what you mean about the connection, but I think a mistborn's spiritweb allows them to use any investiture that is in the form of a metal. So they don't need connection to the shard because it is investiture in metal form and the mistbron's abilities allows them to use metallic intestiture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Parzival said: I see what you mean about the connection, but I think a mistborn's spiritweb allows them to use any investiture that is in the form of a metal. Except Brandon has said that a Scadrian mistborn couldn't normally burn shardblade metal because they lack the relevant Connection. They'd need to create that in some way before they coukd burn a godmetal from another Shard. He described it as hard but not impossible. Edited March 23, 2021 by Weltall 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parzival Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Weltall said: Except Brandon has said that a Scadrian mistborn couldn't normally burn shardblade metal because they lack the relevant Connection. They'd need to create that in some way before they coukd burn a godmetal from another Shard. He described it as hard but not impossible. There are two WoB on this Questioner If a Mistborn were to burn a piece of a Shardblade, what would happen? Brandon Sanderson This would be hard to make happen, but it would be possible. A Shardblade is going to act as, basically, an alloy of the god metal of Honor and so what would it do? RAFO, but it is possible and it would do something. It would not be inert. It would be Allomanticaly viable. This one tell us that the god metals are allomantically viable word_thief What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate? Brandon Sanderson A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen… This one tells us a shardblade is also invested, and that the mistborn can not get that investiture. This is exactly what happens when vin burns Sazed's earing. She gets the allomantic result of burning pewter but nothing extra from his power cause she isn't connected to it and it is keyed to Sazed's identity. So a mistborn would get a allomantic result from burning a shardblade, but they are also extra invested and the mistborn wouldn't get anything from that extra investiture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted March 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Parzival said: There are two WoB on this Questioner If a Mistborn were to burn a piece of a Shardblade, what would happen? Brandon Sanderson This would be hard to make happen, but it would be possible. A Shardblade is going to act as, basically, an alloy of the god metal of Honor and so what would it do? RAFO, but it is possible and it would do something. It would not be inert. It would be Allomanticaly viable. This one tell us that the god metals are allomantically viable word_thief What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate? Brandon Sanderson A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen… This one tells us a shardblade is also invested, and that the mistborn can not get that investiture. This is exactly what happens when vin burns Sazed's earing. She gets the allomantic result of burning pewter but nothing extra from his power cause she isn't connected to it and it is keyed to Sazed's identity. So a mistborn would get a allomantic result from burning a shardblade, but they are also extra invested and the mistborn wouldn't get anything from that extra investiture. I disagree with the second part. In my opinion in light of the first WoB (it is hard to make it happen) the second WoB implies that mistborn would not be able to burn the godmetal they have no connection to at all. In Vins case the earring was still pewter albeit invested one, so any mistborn or pewter misting could burn it as pewter, because it is the usual allomantic metal and so is inherently tied to allomancy. However, godmetals fall outside of the scope of the usual metals, to get atium misting Leras had to manually alter allomancy. Since without this modification no atium mistings are born, this to me suggests that the ability to burn godmetals requires some connection, either to the allomancy itself (as it was for Atium mistings) or to the mistborn attempting the burn (which for Atium would now be facilitated by the inherent Ruin investiture in all Scadrians). I would for example assume that mistborn with nahel bond could burn shardblades/shardplates, but without some similar connection I think they would feel something in the metal but be unable to do anything about it. Edited March 23, 2021 by therunner Added comment on the first WoB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parzival Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, therunner said: I disagree with the second part. In my opinion in light of the first WoB (it is hard to make it happen) the second WoB implies that mistborn would not be able to burn the godmetal they have no connection to at all. In Vins case the earring was still pewter albeit invested one, so any mistborn or pewter misting could burn it as pewter, because it is the usual allomantic metal and so is inherently tied to allomancy. However, godmetals fall outside of the scope of the usual metals, to get atium misting Leras had to manually alter allomancy. Since without this modification no atium mistings are born, this to me suggests that the ability to burn godmetals requires some connection, either to the allomancy itself (as it was for Atium mistings) or to the mistborn attempting the burn (which for Atium would now be facilitated by the inherent Ruin investiture in all Scadrians). I would for example assume that mistborn with nahel bond could burn shardblades/shardplates, but without some similar connection I think they would feel something in the metal but be unable to do anything about it. I'm fairly certain their is a WoB that all god metals are allomantically viable, if I am mistaken however then I could see your point. The first WoB I posted is the latest one, so it would override the original WoB tho. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) Allomantically viable just means it can be burned, it doesn't mean it can be burned by anybody, not even a mistborn. Everyone on Scadrial has Connection to both Ruin and Preservation which is why mistborn can burn atium, lerasium and alloys thereof. Here are some more WoBs on the topic: Quote Questioner Can a Mistborn burn any physical form of Investiture? Brandon Sanderson No. Well-- possible with work, but naturally, no. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) Quote Ravi If Odium were lured to Scadrial, would his physical body turn into a burnable metal? If so, could Harmony create an Odium-metal legion of Mistings to consume and burn it? Would that weaken him sufficiently enough to be killed or destroyed? Brandon Sanderson The difficulty here is, again, one of Identity. People born on Scadrial have an Identity tied to it and its magic. Odium would have to do certain things to make them able to use a magic he fuels. He has done these things on Roshar, so it's not impossible for him to manage it on Scadrial. /r/fantasy AMA 2013 (April 15, 2013) Edited March 23, 2021 by Weltall 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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