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Mid-Range Game 49: Lode of Luthadel

|TJ|

By |TJ|
in Sanderson Elimination

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|TJ|
|TJ|

Breeze was getting impatient. Being chased on a horseback by archers wasn’t enough and now he had to wait for His Majesty. Sure, Elend’s the king and all that but, c’mon! It’s just like how it w

Archer
Archer

That's that guy who wrote Hamilton right?  Hey TJ, say there's three players, one from each faction. The exe kills the villager, so they lose. Then the elims try to kill each other with their eli

Whysper
Whysper

Oh, this sounds interesting.  I think I should be available by the time this starts up. /in

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Whysper

+Whysper

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TJ Shade said:

Please welcome @Whysper to the game! She'll be replacing Ventyl.

57 minutes ago, Illwei said:

@Whysper Hi!!!!!

Thanks and hello :)  I just finished up in Lylo in a game on my homesite. We (Town) won! I'll need to go to bed now, but I'll be available for this game tomorrow and going forward. :) 

 

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Ookla of Colors

Ookla of Colors

Posted
Posted (edited)

Welcome, Whysper!

(Liranil)

Doesn't my way of welcoming you make you so happy? :) 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cue ninja-ing.

Ok. This very long post is only important to scanner roles, but there's stuff for everyone at the end. You're welcome. I'll do the other roles later maybe.

Scanner roles: I will be cutting the quotes down to the size of what's directly important to you. Go read everyone else's posts if you wanna know their full things. 

22 hours ago, Archer said:

-Scanner: Tineye, Seeker, Terris

22 hours ago, Gears said:

Roles (that have to do with my analysis -Taniel)

Tineye: Learn target of player. Better than Coinshot at determining role. Can determine murderers. Elims: Try to find power roles as a terrible Seeker. Villagers: Watch the night for knives and tell the Watch in the light.

Seeker: See metal burned. A semi-role scan. Scan a person twice to catch Mistborn.

Terris: You determine a random piece of information about a random person.  

Intro to your roles. ^^ In case you wanted it.

Quote

My guess for the former distribution is that we have... four scanners... 

Please use your roles, scanners. We will struggle to win without a clutch insight or two.

I agree. Please use your roles. But also please gather as much info as you feel you can without being NKd and then dump it all to us. The more info you can get, the better.

If only the scanners could coordinate without being NKd... :(

From here on out im kinda grouping quotes that go together...

20 hours ago, Archer said:

I feel like asking people not to lie is a legitimate request to make. If someone role-claims then a scanner reveals they have a different role, are we supposed to just ignore it? In the unlikely event that we get a break like that, I intend to take advantage of it. I'm saying that now as fair warning to any villagers who might be considering a gambit. 

See what Ash says below vv

17 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

I'll add a note on this: I don't think fake-claiming in and of itself is a bad thing. (Kas's LG Aftermath post gives a few good reasons for this, but 1) that's the LG with perfect Seekers and 2) a whole lot of PMs.)

Lurchers and Seekers scanners -Taniel, for instance, probably should fake a claim if given the chance, because those are really powerful roles even outside of LG/AG rules and thus are much more likely to get Elim killed, especially in this environment where there's two Elim teams. And a Seeker shouldn't out them unless they've got a really good reason to (ie they've burned another metal giving them a 2/3 chance of being Elim, or if they've been protecting Elims / scanning people who later die).

If someone claims they're a Thug but is actually a visiting role, or claims Smoker but is actually a Coinshot, that's reason enough for suspicion. But fake-claiming as a Lurcher/Seeker/Thug is something that I think is fairly innocuous.

So yeah. I think it's a legitimate request to ask peeps to not lie... but also power roles you should absolutely lie unless you like being dead better than actually playing.

 

14 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

... we should probably make one of our D1 Talking Points TM on what we should do if a Seeker finds a Mistborn, because if a Mistborn's outed there's a 2/3 chance you take out a really powerful Eliminator role and a 1/3 chance that you take out the most powerful and most Village role in the game.

Just cause Scanner finds Mistborn doesn't mean Scanner outs Mistborn... vv

13 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

I mean, personally, I'd rather our seeker, if we have one, avoid outing the mistborn to begin with. They can keep this knowledge handy, for if the player in question starts seeming fishy, but I'd prefer if we avoid the conundrum of possibly killing Vin, or giving the elims the chance to kill Vin altogether. 

That's not what you're really asking about. I think you're asking about what we should do if the seeker does out a mistborn. In that scenario, I say we avoid exing the player. Unless a mistborn has already died, there's too low of a chance, for my tastes, that the outed mistborn is Vin. I don't know what to do long term for an outed mistborn, as the outing is a death sentence.

 

Quote

What you don't want to do is sit on some information and then die with it from one of the three kills going around each cycle. So you'll need to use your best judgement about what to say when, scanners. My advice is to announce any mistborn you find, but it's up to you. Good luck. 

Really don't do this. It might be Vin, and we'd REALLY rather keep Vin alive. The Elims know their own Mistborns but NOT anyone else's, so any Mistborn announced would be NKd as soon as they were announced. And probably the Scanner too.

Like I've said earlier, please use your role for as long as you feel safe and then share your findings. But also PLEASE avoid outing Vin in your findings. If you're sure the Mistborn you know is Elim!Mistborn, then absolutely out them - and hope you're not wrong. It's a logical assumption that any Mistborns outed will be NKd by one elim team or the other.

                                                               (Also logic and warning people is not the same as elim signaling...)

Look, Striker agreed with me 13 hours ago.

15 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

Some thoughts I had, in no particular order:

  • To Vin: avoid claiming like the plague. The mistborns in this game are probably more powerful in general this game overall, because (besides Zane for most of the time) they can choose the metals they want to use. Having that choice is a great plus for the village, even if you can't kill anyone. 
  • To village scanners: please don't out Vin. The elims will all go after her if she's been outed, and they can be fairly certain she'll die as both teams will probably go for her, double hitting her.

So unless you like dead Vins... and dead selves...

Whysper, Archer.

1 hour ago, Archer said:

See below about an exception; Vin should claim if a mistborn is outed. 

If you scan a Mistborn, you risk outing your own role as well as possibly revealing who Vin is. But in context, the rewards can outweigh the risks. It's going to take a while to kill any Mistborn. They have pewter, atium, and possibly lurcher and coinshot protection and exe-derailing vote manipulation from teammates. MR games don't take that long, especially ones where only villagers dies in the first few rounds. Having one beefy villager at the end of the game is still too few to win; we need bodies to keep the exe under village control. 

Say someone scans a mistborn and announces it to the thread. They will claim to be Vin. At that point, the real Vin can come forward to dispute it, or no one will challenge and we will know they are telling the truth. (lots of stuffs here that I cut out to make the post shorter -Taniel)

Ok I may have overreacted but it's still valid...

(PS I read this post backwards bc I was scrolling up an cutting down quotes)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Random unrelated-to-scanner stuff. This is where you tl;dr folks start reading again.

Quote

3. I'm fairly sure Illwei was joking about their plan for the elims. Joking is part of village!Illwei's meta... I'll note that down

Actually it's just part of Illwei's meta, an anyway Wei said she's not playing by meta this game...

Tho last time she claimed elim to me she WAS elim so if she does that kill her.

20 hours ago, Illwei said:

but oop guess I'm an Elim again this time too. welp.

That's it. Kill Illwei!

Archer.

21 hours ago, Gears said:

Given that each elim knows the Mistborn and one other, teams of three mean that the non-Mistborns all know who each other are. As such, I'm discounting teams of 3 because it removes the 'unknown teammates' aspect of the game.

False. TJ said Elims only know their Mistborn.

Quote

Basics [perhaps this should have gone up top]: One action per cycle with exceptions, no PMs [to prevent just getting in touch with the relevant people, id est everyone in a faction PMs the Mistborn, the Mistborn reveals all to everyone. Good choice there.]. Random ties. No distinguished kills. 

Ummm... no PMs... remember?

Quote

kamikazee

@Gears Actually that's kamikaze... one e...

Oh goodness. Look how many times I voted in this one post.

(I did say that was gonna be part of my meta...)

Edited by Tani
To shorten the post. I took out extra emptiness.
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The Unknown Ajah

The Unknown Ajah

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Tani said:

Random unrelated-to-scanner stuff. This is where you tl;dr folks start reading again.

Actually it's just part of Illwei's meta, an anyway Wei said she's not playing by meta this game...

Tho last time she claimed elim to me she WAS elim so if she does that kill her.

That's it. Kill Illwei!

Archer.

False. TJ said Elims only know their Mistborn.

Ummm... no PMs... remember?

@Gears Actually that's kamikaze... one e...

Oh goodness. Look how many times I voted in this one post.

(I did say that was gonna be part of my meta...)

That makes so much sense, I realize it's a joke, but why? At least Archer makes sense because of other information (more on that later).

They used to know another teammate and that's what the rules say, TJ just got rid of that because of the player count. What Gears wrote was pre written so it took into account what the rules said.

He said it was a good choice to not have them, he also presented a scenario where having PMs could be bad therefore reinforcing his point.

That does annoy, it would be nicer if you just voted at the end, but do whatever you do.

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Ookla of Colors

Ookla of Colors

Posted
Posted (edited)

Everyone else: votes once, maybe twice.

Me: votes five times, usually not for good(or any) reasons

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VC:

Archer(43): Quinn, Matrim's Dice, TUO, Taniel

Striker(1): Illwei

Illwei(1): STINK

PizzaPower(1): PizzaPower

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VC History, not timelined:

Quinn(0): Archer

Liranil(0): Taniel

Archer(43): Quinn, Mat, TUO, Taniel, Taniel

Striker(1): Illwei

Illwei(1): Taniel, STINK

Gears(0): Archer

Whysper(0): Taniel

PizzaPower(1): TUO, PizzaPower

STINK(0): Quinn

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS Taniel is me. In case you didn't know.

Edited by Tani
To make divisions more clear, 2nd: because new info
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Mat

Mat

Posted
Posted
Just now, Tani said:

When did TUO retract his first vote?

TUO only retracted the vote on PizzaPower, He never retracted on Archer, so technically his vote on Pizza was invalid.

Nah, that was only a rule in Kas' game. Typically GMs just count the latest red vote, so it'd evaluate to voting Archer -> voting Pizza -> unvoting Pizza to end with a no-vote.

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Ookla of Colors

Ookla of Colors

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Nah, that was only a rule in Kas' game. Typically GMs just count the latest red vote, so it'd evaluate to voting Archer -> voting Pizza -> unvoting Pizza to end with a no-vote.

Is it not a rule here?

do we have to retract our votes before we vote again?

Edit for clarification: Do we have to retract our votes in order for the next vote to be counted?

 

Double edit: Nevermind I just checked we don't have to retract our votes before voting again for the next vote to be counted.

Edited by Tani
New info
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Ashbringer

Ashbringer

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, The Unknown Order said:

That makes so much sense, I realize it's a joke, but why? At least Archer makes sense because of other information (more on that later).

(I think this vote got canceled but might need clarification)

1 hour ago, Tani said:

You're right. Archer is the more logical choice.

3 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

...I would mark Quinn/Archer as possible e/e distancing but I really don't see how that could happen. The only way they both could know they were teammates is if they both rolled each other as the random teammate to learn, and they'd have no way of knowing the other did that.

Archer.

... two votes on Archer for "reasons to come", one vote because... possible but unlikely distancing?

Can you guys elaborate a bit? TUO specifically? Currently Archer's got the same number of votes that he has posts... which isn't that uncommon for D1, but this feels like the opposite of a contribution crusade.

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Mat

Mat

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

... two votes on Archer for "reasons to come", one vote because... possible but unlikely distancing?

Can you guys elaborate a bit? TUO specifically? Currently Archer's got the same number of votes that he has posts... which isn't that uncommon for D1, but this feels like the opposite of a contribution crusade.

My vote came well before theirs did, which I think is important. And I specifically said it wasn't mainly about the distancing. (Though I am paranoid it's a signaling thing. But again that's not the reason.)

It's not meant to be an opposite contribution crusade, to me it sort of feels like Archer is trying to steer the discussion in a selective way. And, like Tani said (and I alluded to), outing Vin would just result in her death in every situation.

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Ookla of Colors

Ookla of Colors

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

... two votes on Archer for "reasons to come", one vote because... possible but unlikely distancing?

Can you guys elaborate a bit? TUO specifically? Currently Archer's got the same number of votes that he has posts... which isn't that uncommon for D1, but this feels like the opposite of a contribution crusade.

My elaboration can be found in my superlong scanner post. The time where I first vote for Archer. The thing about "scanners should out any mistborn they find" rang soooooo many alarm bells for me...

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Mat

Mat

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, The Unknown Order said:

I voted on Archer, didn't I? I normally don't vote, but I'm changing that up this game.

See this:

27 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Typically GMs just count the latest red vote, so it'd evaluate to voting Archer -> voting Pizza -> unvoting Pizza to end with a no-vote.

 

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|TJ|

|TJ|

Posted
  • Author
Posted
29 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

See this:

57 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Typically GMs just count the latest red vote, so it'd evaluate to voting Archer -> voting Pizza -> unvoting Pizza to end with a no-vote.

This is correct. So, currently I have TUO as no-vote.

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---

---

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Tani said:

Also currently Archer has more votes than Illwei does...

What a bizzare thought: if you vote on someone they might actually end up having more people on them than the person you're not voting on :P.

That Awkward moment when you go to collect the VC and someone's already done it ;-;

--

Spoiler

 - Archer votes Gears (Example vote?)
 - Illwei votes Striker (No reasoning)
 - STINK votes Illwei (...Meta-Reasoning :P)
 - Tani votes Liranil (Poke vote, no reasoning)
 - Quinn votes STINK (No reasoning)
 - Archer Votes Quinn ("worry about pocketing")
 - Quinn votes Archer ("feels forced")
 - Pizza votes Pizza (clueless)
 - Archer unvotes Quinn ("Fishing")
 - Matrim votes Archer ("feels like e/e distancing, but it can't be")
 - Tani votes Whysper (Poke vote)
 - Tani Votes Archer ("more logical choice") ??
 - Tani votes Illwei (claiming elim)
 - TUO votes Archer ("more on that later")
 - Tani votes Archer ("more logical choice")
 - Pizza votes Pizza (bored)
 - TUO votes Pizza (bored)
 - TUO unvotes

so

Quinn votes STINK, Archer then votes Quinn for "pocketing", and then Removes it after Quinn votes him. Wild theory here:

Quinn votes for her Mistborn, STINK, with no reasoning. Archer votes her for barely any reasoning afterwards, so if so, something said in Quinn's posts at least will try to signal to other Elims on her team.

The Quinn read relies on Stink being a mistborn, and the Archer read isn't fully there just a perhaps because of his interactions with Quinn.

Now to get out of this hole before I keep digging and turn it into a tunnel

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Quintessential

Quintessential

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Quinn votes for her Mistborn, STINK, with no reasoning. Archer votes her for barely any reasoning afterwards, so if so, something said in Quinn's posts at least will try to signal to other Elims on her team.

So I guess now would be the time to mention that I'm tinfoiling elim-Mistborn!Stink also, but with Archer? XD

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