Mr Bear

Remaking of Unmade

42 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hello guys. A thought just popped up in my mind and I wanted to share it with you.

We see in rhythm of war that Raboniel is unmaking or corrupting the Sibling. Is it possible that the unmade once were honor's spren and not odium's but were corrupted or unmade by trapping them in gemstones and then infusing the gemstone with voidlight? If it is so then can they be remade again by trapping them in gemstones and then infusing the gemstone with anti-voidlight or stormlight?

Edited by Mr Bear
Mistake while typing
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Mr Bear said:

Hello guys. A thought just popped up in my mind and I wanted to share it with you.

We see in rhythm of war that Raboniel is unmaking or corrupting the Sibling. Is it possible that the unmade once were honor's spren and not odium's but were corrupted or unmade by trapping them in gemstones and then infusing the gemstone with voidlight? If it is so then can they be remade again by trapping them in gemstones and then infusing the gemstone with voidlight?

It's a common theory that they were once spren of H/C but it wasn't until the False Desolation that anyone realized that Unmade could be trapped in gems.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Frustration said:

It's a common theory that they were once spren of H/C but it wasn't until the False Desolation that anyone realized that Unmade could be trapped in gems.

Okay. But can it be that the unmade can be remade somehow similar to how navani sort of remade the sibling?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Mr Bear said:

Okay. But can it be that the unmade can be remade somehow similar to how navani sort of remade the sibling?

All speculation at this point, I don't think so, but others do.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can’t find it in Arcanum, so I am going to paraphrase what Brandon said.

”In the Cosmere, almost anything is possible, but some things would require so much effort and resources that it wouldn’t be practical to do in any situation.”

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My theory is that some of them could be of Ambition.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the unmade used be spren, wouldnt some of them at least be considered "bondsmith" level spren ?

Yet its said there was only ever 3 of those

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Quick Ben said:

If the unmade used be spren, wouldnt some of them at least be considered "bondsmith" level spren ?

Yet its said there was only ever 3 of those

Yes, there are theories that some of them, like Sja-Anat could become Bondsmith spren

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Quick Ben said:

If the unmade used be spren, wouldnt some of them at least be considered "bondsmith" level spren ?

Yet its said there was only ever 3 of those

There has only been three at a time. it is hinted there may be more. Also, a lot of the unmade are not sentient enough to form a bond or are sentient and really don't want to.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Quick Ben said:

If the unmade used be spren, wouldnt some of them at least be considered "bondsmith" level spren ?

Yet its said there was only ever 3 of those

I believe it is possible to bond any spren, though not necessarily would form a radiant bond, those you need to speak oaths.

I do wonder...could you make a normal nahel bond with a radiant spren but no a radiant bond? Huh....

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/7/2021 at 2:45 AM, Mr Bear said:

Is it possible that the unmade once were honor's spren and not odium's but were corrupted or unmade by trapping them in gemstones and then infusing the gemstone with voidlight? If it is so then can they be remade again by trapping them in gemstones and then infusing the gemstone with voidlight?

I feel there is a mistake here.  If the unmade were created by corrupting a spren with voidlight, I don't think infusing them with more voidlight is going to remake them.

I think you meant either

(1) Infuse them with anti-voidlight to cancel out the voidlight.  I think from what we saw in ROW the cancellation would be successful, but have the side effect of blowing up the spren.  So a failure.

(2) Infuse them with stormlight.  This might work.  It depends on if infusing them with voidlight pushed out all the original stormlight and replaced it with voidlight or you ended up with a spren the was 50-50 Honor/Odium.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Sibling: I am cold. They are killing... killing me. I don't... want... to die...

 

 

Quote

Raboniel: I hope your slumber is peaceful, Sibling. You shall not awaken, at least not as yourself

There are a couple of other quotes, but I can't locate them. In any case, I think that Brandon is making it clear that whatever an Unmade was originally is dead. You can't remake an Unmade anymore than you can "heal" a zombie in a zombie flick. You can re-unmake an Unmade -- infuse it with Stormlight, for instance -- but the result will just be another flavor of Unmade. I'm guessing the process of Voidlight infusion results in a complete loss of Identity, making "healing" the resulting damage impossible. Ultimately, to undo the process, you'd have to recreate the original Identity and Connections (after kicking out the Voidlight), which is probably more difficult that just making the spren from scratch.

I think this WOB is apt:

22 hours ago, Chinkoln said:

I can’t find it in Arcanum, so I am going to paraphrase what Brandon said.

”In the Cosmere, almost anything is possible, but some things would require so much effort and resources that it wouldn’t be practical to do in any situation.”

I don't think this quote was ever used in the service of an Unmade question, but I'm sure he would use it given the opportunity. To "remake" an Unmade would be a process more convoluted that what was used to create the original. It would be much easier and more likely successful to kill the Unmade, then make a new spren.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Quick Ben said:

If the unmade used be spren, wouldnt some of them at least be considered "bondsmith" level spren ?

Yet its said there was only ever 3 of those

Three at one time. The Sibling at the very least appears to post-date the human arrival to Roshar:

Quote

That is it, the Sibling whispered to the Rhythm of the Tower. My song.

“Our emulsifier,” Navani whispered to the Rhythm of the Tower.

The common ground, the Sibling said. Between humans and spren. That is … that is why I was created, so long ago.…

I would guess the vast majority of the Unmade were lower in power than that, though. Ba-Ado-Mishram is the only one I feel it's currently supported to say likely was one.

18 hours ago, Chinkoln said:

Yes, there are theories that some of them, like Sja-Anat could become Bondsmith spren

To be honest, I'm still not sure why Sja-anat seems to top the list of candidates for most people... her power isn't exactly Bondsmithy, nor have we been given any indication she's necessary in the same way the Stormfather is, or Ba-Ado-Mishram seems to have been.

1 hour ago, Leuthie said:

You can re-unmake an Unmade -- infuse it with Stormlight, for instance -- but the result will just be another flavor of Unmade.

Agreed. Any "Remaking" is imo probably just unmaking with a different kind of Investiture.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

 

To be honest, I'm still not sure why Sja-anat seems to top the list of candidates for most people... her power isn't exactly Bondsmithy, nor have we been given any indication she's necessary in the same way the Stormfather is, or Ba-Ado-Mishram seems to have been.

Sja-anat is the unmade that interacts with humanity the most, and is arguably the greatest friend to humanity

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Chinkoln said:

Sja-anat is the unmade that interacts with humanity the most, and is arguably the greatest friend to humanity

I don't see why that would make her a Bondsmith spren?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I don't see why that would make her a Bondsmith spren?

It wouldn’t, but it makes her the most likely candidate.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Chinkoln said:

It wouldn’t, but it makes her the most likely candidate.

But... it doesn't really offer any reason she'd even grant Bondsmith powers in the first place?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

But... it doesn't really offer any reason she'd even grant Bondsmith powers in the first place?

There is no reason to believe that any of them will grant powers. But if they did, then we are saying Sja-anat would be the most likely because she is the most likely to interact with humans and form a bond.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Chinkoln said:

There is no reason to believe that any of them will grant powers. But if they did, then we are saying Sja-anat would be the most likely because she is the most likely to interact with humans and form a bond.

Sja-anat does seem like she'd be most willing (though I don't think she would actually be willing, just the others would be more unwilling), but I'd say Ba-Ado-Mishram seems most likely to actually be capable of being a Bondsmith spren:

  • Associated with Connection (Connecting to the singers)
  • Produces Light
  • Immense power (provided forms of power to the entire singer race, from the sound of things)
  • Seems crucial to the planet (her imprisonment caused deadeyes to start existing, and the Sibling lost the tones of Honor and Cultivation on her capture)
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Seems crucial to the planet (her imprisonment caused deadeyes to start existing, and the Sibling lost the tones of Honor and Cultivation on her capture)

The only confirmed side effect of her imprisonment is that the singers literally lost their minds. Everything else is just theory.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Chinkoln said:

The only confirmed side effect of her imprisonment is that the singers literally lost their minds. Everything else is just theory.

The Sibling directly attributes losing their Light to the imprisonment (RoW 49):

Quote

The Sibling fell silent for a time, and Navani wondered if she had pushed the spren too far. Fortunately they spoke again, softly. I have … been wounded. Thousands of years ago, something happened that changed the singers. It hurt me too.

Navani covered her shock. “You’re speaking of the binding of that Unmade, which made the singers lose their forms?”

Yes. That terrible act touched the souls of all who belong to Roshar. Spren too.

“How have no spren mentioned this?”

I don’t know. But I lost the rhythm of my Light that day. The tower stopped working. My father, Honor, should have been able to help me, but he was losing his mind. And he soon died …

Additionally, it's been confirmed that deadeyes did not exist prior to the Recreance, and Kalak seems to see this as related to Ba-Ado-Mishram's capture as well (RoW 115):

Quote

Some of this, Kelek said, had to do with the nature of deadeyes. Before the Recreance, they had never existed. Kelek said he thought this was why Mraize was hunting him. Something to do with the fall of the singers, and the Knights Radiant, so long ago—and the imprisoning of a specific spren.

...

“I’ve been speaking to Kelek, the Herald. He seems to think the reason you’re hunting him is because of an Unmade. Ba-Ado-Mishram? The one who Connected to the singers long ago, giving them forms of power? The one who, when trapped, stole the singers’ minds and made them into parshmen?

“Why do you want the gemstone that holds Ba-Ado-Mishram, Mraize? What are you intending to do with it? What power do the Ghostbloods seek with a thing that can bind the minds of an entire people?”

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remembered those passages, but I hadn't remembered how strongly it was written. In my mind, I was thinking that it was vaguely implied. I guess you were right.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Chinkoln said:

I remembered those passages, but I hadn't remembered how strongly it was written. In my mind, I was thinking that it was vaguely implied. I guess you were right.

Fair enough, these books contain a lot of things to remember, lol

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, nehalem said:

I feel there is a mistake here.  If the unmade were created by corrupting a spren with voidlight, I don't think infusing them with more voidlight is going to remake them.

I think you meant either

(1) Infuse them with anti-voidlight to cancel out the voidlight.  I think from what we saw in ROW the cancellation would be successful, but have the side effect of blowing up the spren.  So a failure.

(2) Infuse them with stormlight.  This might work.  It depends on if infusing them with voidlight pushed out all the original stormlight and replaced it with voidlight or you ended up with a spren the was 50-50 Honor/Odium.

Thanks. It was a mistake made due to auto correct. Fixed it 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

19 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I'd say Ba-Ado-Mishram seems most likely to actually be capable of being a Bondsmith spren:

  • Associated with Connection (Connecting to the singers)
  • Produces Light
  • Immense power (provided forms of power to the entire singer race, from the sound of things)
  • Seems crucial to the planet (her imprisonment caused deadeyes to start existing, and the Sibling lost the tones of Honor and Cultivation on her capture)

I too agree with this theory. If BAM is not a splinter of odium, then she could've been a former bondsmith spren who has somehow been corrupted.

She could connected with singers. We know that the singers were the original inhabitants of roshar and thus it could be that she was a splinter of honor and her job was to provide them with forms and stormlight.The original inhabitants of roshar, i.e., the singers and the spren lost their minds after her imprisonment. The singers became parshmen and the deadeyes started existing. Also, the sibling lost the rhytms of honor after the act. The theory of BAM being a splinter of honor is reinforced by the fact because I dont think a splinter of odium will be able to impact the rhythms of honor. Maybe it was BAM responsible for the singers being able to listen the rhythms of roshar or maybe, she herself is the spren of roshar. 

Edited by Mr Bear
Minor additions
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.