NickHunter

Parallels in Knight Radiants Oaths/Ideals

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Posted (edited)

In my attempts to predict future ideals of the Knight Radiants, I found some interesting parallels concepts/beliefs. While I wasn't able to draw solid conclusions, I think it's a decent topics that may yield some insight if more people share their ideas. 

Also note that there are lots of assumptions and leaps that I made that may not be too solid. 

For example, Windrunners & Skybreakers. "I will do what is right" apply. But Skybreakers judge what is right externally through code of law. While the Windrunners use internal morality to determine the right thing to do. 

Stonewards vs Dustbringers "I will do what I must". Stonewards will do what is required of them to support the greater good. Stonewards are prepared to sacrifice themself for the greater good. While Dustbringers will do what is required to achieve the long term gold. They are prepared to sacrifice others for the greater good. Stonewards will need to learn to not sacrifice themselves while Dustbringers will need to learn to curb their meddlings. 

About reponsibility. Bondsmiths will hold themselves accountable for their own done deeds. Skybreakers will hold others for their done deeds. Dustbringers will hold themselves accountable for their future actions. Willshaper will hold themselves for the future actions of others. Truthwatchers and Edgedancers will absolve past actions of thers. And Lightweavers will need to learn to absolve their own past actions. 

All of Elsecallers, Truthwatchers and Lightweavers seek truth. Lightweavers seek truth within themselves. Truthwatchers seek spiritual truth and hidden intentions and meaning in people. Finally Elsecallers seek truth of the physical world and hidden structures in natures. Elsecallers seek truth through logic while Truthwatchers seek truth through empathy. 

Edgedancers and Willshapers value individual over collectives. "I will remember those who have been ignored" vs "I will free those who have beed bounded". "I will listen to those who have been ignored" vs "I will be speak for those who have no voice". 

Speculatiom for Knight Radiant Ideals

Windrunners
I will protect those who can't protect themselves. 
I will protect even those I didn't know I should protect. 
I will need to let people learn yo protect themselves. 

Skybreakers
I will follow the letter of the law. 
I will follow the (someone's) interpretation of the law. 
I will follow the spirit (my own interpretation) of the law

Dustbringers
I will dare to do (what must be done). 
I will dare to pay (the price for the greater good).
I will stay my hands (and not intervene) 

Edgedancer
I will remember those who are forgotten. 
I will listen to those who have been ignored. 
I will finish what you started.

Truthwatchers
I will see truth (in people) (enlighten Truthwatchers may be I will see what could be) 
I will show truth (to inspire) (again to what could be for the enlighten) 
I will bring them truth (even if painful) 

Lightweavers
(Don't think Lightweavers fit into this, they just speak truths about themselves) 

Elsecallers
I will seek knowledge/wisdom/logic. 
I will guide/lead with knowledge/wisdom/logic
I will accept that something is unknowable and you have to take it by faith. (I think Jasnah already speak this ideal while she was stuck in Shadesmar and she had to rely on faith to come through) 

Willshapers
I will seek freedom for those in bondage. (I will free people) 
I will speak for those who are silenced (I will free ideas) (Venli will truly become the Voice of her people with this) 
I will accept that people follow me through theirown freewilk (I will free myself from feeling totally responsible for everyone I lead. similar to WE CHOSE moment from Maya) (Venli will reach this after a bunch of disastrous decisions she made) 

Stonewards
I will do my duty. 
I will stand even when others fall. 
I will accept defeat to fight another day (and not sacrifice myself in vain)

Bondsmiths
I will unite people. 
I will accept the consequences of my actions and move forward. (I will unite myself) 
I will unite everyone (even my enemies) 

All ideas and comments accepted. 

Edited by NickHunter
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23 minutes ago, NickHunter said:

For example, Windrunners & Skybreakers. "I will do what is right" apply. But Skybreakers judge what is right externally through code of law. While the Windrunners use internal morality to determine the right thing to do.

Current day Skybreakers are not like they should be, the two orders were probably originaly even more similar

Quote

Stonewards vs Dustbringers "I will do what I must". Stonewards will do what is required of them to support the greater good. Stonewards are prepared to sacrifice themself for the greater good. While Dustbringers will do what is required to achieve the long term gold. They are prepared to sacrifice others for the greater good. Stonewards will need to learn to not sacrifice themselves while Dustbringers will need to learn to curb their meddlings. 

From the offical quizz, Dustbringers are "I will seek self-mastery", not do what they must

Quote

All of Elsecallers, Truthwatchers and Lightweavers seek truth. Lightweavers seek truth within themselves. Truthwatchers seek spiritual truth and hidden intentions and meaning in people. Finally Elsecallers seek truth of the physical world and hidden structures in natures. Elsecallers seek truth through logic while Truthwatchers seek truth through empathy. 

Elscallers are "I will reach my potential" not anything about truth

Quote

Edgedancers and Willshapers value individual over collectives. "I will remember those who have been ignored" vs "I will free those who have beed bounded". "I will listen to those who have been ignored" vs "I will be speak for those who have no voice". 

Willshapers are a group of very different people and not all are about freeing other people

Quote

Skybreakers

I will follow the letter of the law. 
I will follow the (someone's) interpretation of the law. 
I will follow the spirit (my own interpretation) of the law

The first is "I will seek justice" not "I will follow the Law"

Quote

Dustbringers
I will dare to do (what must be done). 
I will dare to pay (the price for the greater good).
I will stay my hands (and not intervene) 

Dustbringers are basicaly the "great power implies great responsibilties" order so in don't think their oaths are these

Quote

Edgedancer
I will remember those who are forgotten. 
I will listen to those who have been ignored. 
I will finish what you started.

Truthwatchers
I will see truth (in people) (enlighten Truthwatchers may be I will see what could be) 
I will show truth (to inspire) (again to what could be for the enlighten) 
I will bring them truth (even if painful)

That would make a lot of sences, nicely done

Quote

Stonewards

I will do my duty. 
I will stand even when others fall. 
I will accept defeat to fight another day (and not sacrifice myself in vain)

The first two make a lot of sense and I want to agree with the last but the Epigraph of Oathbringer's chapter 58 is this

Quote

"As a Stoneward, I spent my entire life looking to sacrifice myself. I secretly worry that is the cowardly way. The easy way out."

If they had an oath of non-sacrifice they would probably already know spending one's entire life seeking to sacrifece themself is wrong

Quote

Bondsmiths
I will unite people. 
I will accept the consequences of my actions and move forward. (I will unite myself) 
I will unite everyone (even my enemies)

Boundsmiths Oaths are very wide in what they can be (and apparently diffear significantly depending of which Godspren your bounded to), these would most likely work as Boundsmiths Oaths but they are probably many other way to do it

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I somewhat think Dustbringer's fourth might be something like "I accept I can not always be perfect" or something of that ilk, or that they need to know when to accept help.

Willshaper's fourth might be like "I accept that I can not always be free from my duties." or something like that.

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On 6.3.2021 at 6:00 PM, apepi said:

I somewhat think Dustbringer's fourth might be something like "I accept I can not always be perfect" or something of that ilk, or that they need to know when to accept help.

Willshaper's fourth might be like "I accept that I can not always be free from my duties." or something like that.

Those are based on the fourth ideal of the Windrunners. You might base them on the fourth ideal of the Skybreakers, turning them into something entirely different.
Like "I will overcome a specific bad habit." and "I will remove a specfic obstacle to freedom." Or you could base them on the orders attributes.

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Stonewards
I will do my duty. 
I will stand even when others fall. 
I will accept defeat to fight another day (and not sacrifice myself in vain)

I will push forward and not be defeated.

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There's a WoB that supports this thread:

Quote

Marethyu316

I noticed that the Third Ideals have a similar theme to them. Is that intentional?

Brandon Sanderson

They do, that is is intentional. They won't all exactly go along those lines, but I'm trying to theme them, as best I can, in groups. So all the First ones, all the Second ones, particularly a lot of the Third ones have a similar--

Marethyu316

"Those I hate," or "Even those I'd rather not listen to"?

Brandon Sanderson

Watch for more of that, how about that.

Skyward Chicago signing (Nov. 16, 2018)

It specifically mentions the third ideal, and I've noticed that the second is usually "I will do this thing for this person who can't do it for themself."

 

Side note: While I was searching for the above WoB, I found this oath:

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Can you write an unknown Ideal [in my book]?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

They are still rough so this might not be the exact wording but: "I will stand when others fall."

Words of Radiance Houston signing (March 11, 2014)
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^ That sounds like the second ideal for Stonewards. 

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46 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

^ That sounds like the second ideal for Stonewards. 

The second ideal of the Stonewards is "I'll be there when I'm needed", "I'll will stand when others fall" sounds more like a 3rd oath to be

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What if one of the Edgedancer's is "I will forgive", as they kind of have a forget vibe, being forgiven is similar.

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Just now, apepi said:

What if one of the Edgedancer's is "I will forgive", as they kind of have a forget vibe, being forgiven is similar.

I would say they have a "don't forget" vibe. Though "forgive but don't forget" does seem like a mentality compatible with what we know of Edgedancers

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4 hours ago, mathiau said:

The second ideal of the Stonewards is "I'll be there when I'm needed", "I'll will stand when others fall" sounds more like a 3rd oath to be

Oh yeah that sounds familiar. Was that on one of the Kickstarter perks for the Stonewards or did I doze off during a part of a book lol 

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8 hours ago, Andy92 said:

Oh yeah that sounds familiar. Was that on one of the Kickstarter perks for the Stonewards or did I doze off during a part of a book lol 

I was thinking of the knight radiant quizz but yes, it's in the art pack too

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19 hours ago, apepi said:

What if one of the Edgedancer's is "I will forgive", as they kind of have a forget vibe, being forgiven is similar.

I feel like the Edgedancer 4th or 5th will be something like "I will help those in need" or "I will act on what i have heard". not just listening, but doing

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