Compounding help?

[Codaic sapperial]

So I am a bit confused about the Rules of compounding (I tried to read into it but the book explanation goes over my head) like I get the basics if they have both alomancy and furuchemy then they can compound the effect of alomancy (can you compound furuchemy?) (could you compound both simultaneously or is it one or the other) to make it exponentially stronger 

the questions I have are more focused on the stores of investgure 

Do I still treat them as two separate stores or do they both pool into one source 

If it’s one store and I’m filling my furuchemical store but burning the Corresponding alomantic store at the same rate would I run out of power? Can I even burn them at the same rate?

and could I eat metal to gain furuchemical power 

if they are separate then what happens to the furuchemy store when I burn up the alomancy store? (Does it also burn? is it exponentially?)   If not What happens to the furuchemy store when the metal disappears 

(does anything happen to alomancy when I use furuchemy) 

what happens if even furuchemy is vanishing exponentially, but my alomantic store still runs out first and the metal is gone, does the furuchemy just disappear without any metal to contain it
 

I don’t remember getting a clear explanation of this in the book although maybe I’m just an idiot who needs to reread. if so, please be kind, I’ll get around to them again eventually 

[+Invocation]

In Compounding, what happens is that the two metalborn abilities fuse, functionally creating a temporary new metal from the chunk of burning Allomantic metal that has some Feruchemical storage inside it. This new metal patterns the Investiture from the Allomancy into being whatever Feruchemical storage had been in the bit of metal. The metalborn is then free to dump all of that nearly-effortlessly generated attribute into their usable metalminds and end up with a nearly infinite supply, since the attribute is coming from the Spiritual Realm the way the Allomantic power would, instead of the typical Feruchemical way that results in a balance of time spent storing and time spent tapping.

Most people don't use the same metal that they're burning to store the outflow of power because most metalborn burn off their metals at the end of every day to avoid poisoning themselves, and it wouldn't be a very good idea to get rid of all that power daily only to have to recreate it the next day when you can divert the flood of power into bracers or anything else of the metal and then pull it out at your own leisure.

If you were to not have a way to store the outpouring of attribute after Compounding, it's probably a reasonable thing to assume that the entire rush of Feruchemical power would get dumped into your body all at once, making you blindingly powerful in whatever that was for as long as you can keep the flow going. Don't quote me on that, no idea if it's accurate or not.

1 hour ago, Codaic sapperial said:

(can you compound furuchemy?)

You can. No idea why you would, but you can reverse the process. You would presumably have to choose one way to do it or the other each time.

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Kaymyth (paraphrased)

I asked him about what the board refers to as "reverse" compounding - i.e., using Feruchemy to enhance Allomancy, rather than the other way around. I wanted to make sure that it was really a thing that exists.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said that it was.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

I hope I'm clearing things up, it's a little hard to put into words. (Also if I'm incorrect on any of this, I'm sure another Sharder will correct me, so don't consider me a complete authority on this.)

[Codaic sapperial]

 that’s a great help, I think I understand it now, thank you so much 

[Frustration]

@Codaic sapperial if this is still helpful think of it as when a metal gains a feruchemical charge, it becomes a different metal allomantically, and gives the feruchemical ability, so f-gold, and standard gold are diffferent metals allomantically

[Quantus]

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

@Codaic sapperial if this is still helpful think of it as when a metal gains a feruchemical charge, it becomes a different metal allomantically, and gives the feruchemical ability, so f-gold, and standard gold are diffferent metals allomantically

This exactly. 

 

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Questioner

As far as the Lord Ruler goes, how did he use the Twinborn thing? Feruchemy and Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

What he had to figure out how to do is: Allomancy is powered by Spiritual power directly from the Shard of Adonalsium. Whereas Feruchemy is powered by your own Investiture and effort being transferred into the thing. What he needed to do was figure out a way to power Feruchemy with Allomantic power, right? You could have done the same thing by fueling it with the Dor, or with Stormlight, or another external. But he only had access to three magics. So what he had to do was figure out that.

So what he's doing is, he's basically taking metals, (since he's a Feruchemist and an allomancers), and he is burning metals that he has Invested himself, but then using... basically, switching it so he gets a burst of Allomantic power that is charged with a Feruchemical attribute. So it's powering Feruchemy with Allomancy by burning the metal that he himself has Invested.

Questioner

So he was essentially putting stuff into the metal?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, priming the pump. He puts it in with Feruchemy. Then he burns it with Allomancy. But that fuels Feruchemy with Allomancy, which allows him to draw on the powers of the Shards, rather than himself. So it's not really a perpetual motion machine, because he's drawing the power from someone else. But it's external, which allows him to break the rules of Feruchemy.

The big question I have is: that works in the book, because you can dig into the technicalities of the book. But that's not gonna work in the movie, right? That explanation right there, that's so many levels over the heads of the audience. So I have to figure out a way to not break the cosmere magic, but make it simpler to understand in the movie. Which is the big headache in writing the screenplay. That's probably the biggest challenge in the screenplay is to figure out how to make that all work.

LTUE 2020 (Feb. 15, 2020)

 

 

 

[Codaic sapperial]

@QuantusOk that makes sense, but then how would one charge Allomancy with furuchemy, one would think it would be useless (because less power) however could you replace the fear of running out of metal? (Continuously Using your body heat to supply your soothing for instance). Would that work or Would you still need to replenish the metal? 

[Quantus]

 

15 minutes ago, Codaic sapperial said:

@QuantusOk that makes sense, but then how would one charge Allomancy with furuchemy, one would think it would be useless (because less power) however could you replace the fear of running out of metal? (Continuously Using your body heat to supply your soothing for instance). Would that work or Would you still need to replenish the metal? 

I dont really know how you'd go about it.  I suspect it would require some trick pulled with Nicrosil, but he's RAFO'd the specifics of the spiritual metals until it becomes plot relevant in Era3.

The real practical issue is that there is a large difference in the amount of Power that Feruchemy can bring to bear, because Feruchemy is Powered by your own life/soul (essentially) while Allomancy is powered by a direct Connection to a Shard.  So you'd have to find a way to get a store of investiture out of Feruchemy, then somehow convert/Tune it to provide the Allomantic effect.  Why you would want to do that is beyond me, unless you dont have the A-metal itself and are trying to pull shenanigans with medallions or some such (Im assuming you need metal to "prime the pump" in some similar fashoin to the normal compounding).  On the other hand, if you an figure out how to tune your own Feruchemy to produce Allomantic Effects without needing the actual allomantic ability and/or Connection to Preservation as the power source it would make you a back-door Mistborn. 

 

 

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djscrub

Since burning Feruchemically charged metal seems to require a choice between getting the Allomantic or Feruchemical property (e.g., Miles only sees gold ghosts when he wants to, not as a side effect of compounded healing), is there any special advantage to compounding pewter and tin, where the Allomantic and Feruchemical use is the same? Is their compounding even stronger than normal compounding because you can tap both power sources simultaneously, or maybe because Preservation is particularly attuned to providing those powers through those metals?

Brandon Sanderson

Remember that compounding is a "hack" of the magic. You're looking to fool the magics, and use one to power the other. The value in it is that you can use Allomantic power to fuel Feruchemy. It's like hooking a power cord up to a device that, up to that point, you'd powered by using a hand crank.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 3, 2015)

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Quantus

[theTruthshaper]

I mean, a simple way in which you can use feruchemy to make allomancy more powerful is using pewter. Since, both of the powers of pewter are so similar, we have evidence that instead of storing 'your muscles' in pewter, you can store the pure strength you get while burning pewter. Such, a metalmind would likely work like a stronger version of normal A-pewter, giving much much more power, which you again store in a metalmind. We have some evidence that this is what the Lord Ruler was doing, since he didn't get lots and lots of muscles while he increased his strength. (That is what should happen if he was doing normal compounding)