Adolin's anger management

[Daggon Forescout]

I keep on seeing people mention how Adolin has anger management problems, but apart from that one time he snapped and killed Sadeas (and come on, it was Sadeas), I can't think of anything that really demonstrates that. Is he impulsive? Yeah. Easily provoked? For sure, but every example I can think of the other person was actively trying to get a rise out of him.

Does anyone have any scenes they can point to that demonstrate Adolin's anger management problems?

[GroundPetrel]

Honestly, for a man in his '20s the guy is remarkably self-controlled.  Sadeas spent months trying to personally get a rise out of him after betraying Adolin and Dalinar and 8k of their troops in the nastiest possible way.  Adolin endured that for months and finally snapped when Sadeas said "I'm going to keep on stabbing Dalinar in the back out of  petty spite" which took him from "asshole" to "imminent and permanent threat to everyone Adolin loves".  

[AquaRegia]

Agreed.  Adolin may have problems - low self-esteem, daddy issues, clothing fetish - but "anger management" is NOT one of them.

[GroundPetrel]

4 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

Agreed.  Adolin may have problems - low self-esteem, daddy issues, clothing fetish - but "anger management" is NOT one of them.

I'm sorry, but Adolin's fashion sense is one of the best things about him!  

[Lccaseiro58]

16 hours ago, Daggon Forescout said:

I keep on seeing people mention how Adolin has anger management problems, but apart from that one time he snapped and killed Sadeas (and come on, it was Sadeas), I can't think of anything that really demonstrates that. Is he impulsive? Yeah. Easily provoked? For sure, but every example I can think of the other person was actively trying to get a rise out of him.

Does anyone have any scenes they can point to that demonstrate Adolin's anger management problems?

In WoK and WoR, there are various instances where Adolin starts summoning his blade when he is arguing with someone, there's also a duel where he looses control.

In OB and RoW i don't remember much about it.

[Bejarden]

I don’t think he has like a disease

He has a temper that’s it

Also you can’t just glaze over the fact that he murdered someone even if it’s debatable he had a good reason

[Daggon Forescout]

On 2/27/2021 at 2:14 PM, Lccaseiro58 said:

In WoK and WoR, there are various instances where Adolin starts summoning his blade when he is arguing with someone

I did a word search in WoK of the word "summon," and this was all I could find of Adolin losing his temper. There's the scene where they are riding to the greatshell hunt:

Spoiler

Adolin gritted his teeth. It was flat-out unconscionable for Sadeas to be taking shots at his father in his present state. Perhaps Adolin should offer the pompous bastard a challenge. You didn't duel highprinces - it just wasn't done, not unless you were ready to make a big storm of it. But maybe he was. Maybe-

"Adolin ..." Renarin said warningly.

Adolin looked to the side. He'd held out his hand, as if to summon his Blade. He picked up his reigns with the hand instead.

And again immediately after:

Spoiler

"You saw what he did earlier, Sadeas, while you were hiding back by the pavilion with your bow. My father held off the beast. You're a cowa -"

"Adolin!" Dalinar said. That was going too far. "Restrain yourself."

Adolin clenched his jaw, hand to his side, as if itching to summon his Shardblade. Renarin stepped forward and gently placed a hand on Adolin's arm. Reluctantly, Adolin backed down.

...

"The firebrand I can understand," Sadeas said. "... But the other one? ... He's useless!"

Renarin flushed, looking down. Adolin snapped his head up. He thrust his hand to the side again, stepping forward toward Sadeas.

"Adolin!" Dalinar said. "I will handle this!"

Adolin looked at him, blue eyes alight with rage, but he did not summon his Blade.

And lastly right after they get back from that fateful bridgerun:

Spoiler

"We survived," Dalinar aid firmly.... "He won't attack us here, but he might try to provoke us. Keep your sword as mist, Adolin, and don't let our troops make any mistakes."

...

Adolin didn't summon his Blade, though he regarded Sadeas' troops around them with contempt.

In WoR, all I could find was when Sadeas gave up the title of highprince of information:

Spoiler

He renounces the king's authority, Adolin thought. Storms, this was bad. He gritted his teeth, and found himself reaching his hand to the ide to summon his Blade. No. He pulled the hand back. He'd find a way to force thi man into the dueling ring. Killing Sadeas now - no matter how much he deserved it - would undermine the very laws and codes Adolin's father was working so hard to uphold.

In every cases it's Sadeas intentionally goading him. Obviously a calmer person could resist the provocation, but I don't think it should be shocking that Sadeas managed to get under his skin. It's also telling that Adolin repeatedly mentions dueling, so it's entirely possible that he never considered murdering Sadeas until that time in the tower. And I think it's equally important to note that once Sadeas is gone, we never see Adolin react like this to anyone else. If he does have anger management problems, he sure doesn't have a hard time managing them.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Daggon Forescout

[GroundPetrel]

10 hours ago, Daggon Forescout said:

And I think it's equally important to note that once Sadeas is gone, we never see Adolin react like this to anyone else. If he does have anger management problems, he sure doesn't have a hard time managing them.

Adolin DID summon Maya outside of a duel in Sadeas's warcamp in TWOK but that was mostly him underlining a threat of weaponized privilege because he saw some nameless prostitute being beaten up and stepped in to personally help her out of the situation and help her to a safe place while refusing payment of any kind and blowing off an important strategy meeting.  He didn't intend to use her, she was just underlining his threat of "I am roughly 3rd in line for the throne, do not storm with me".  

[Leuthie]

Holy hell, you people don't know what anger management issues are. Getting angry when directly provoked, then not actually doing anything about it, is exactly NOT anger management issues. In fact, someone who doesn't get angry when provoked is more likely to have anger management issues. When they finally explode...

Adolin didn't explode when he killed Sadeas. In fact, I remember his thoughts being relatively deliberate. He grabbed a knife and shoved it in Sadeas' eye to remove a threat. There was very little in the way of anger in the act. A little, but he didn't get so pissed that he couldn't control himself. He controlled himself just fine.

On 2/27/2021 at 4:31 PM, Bejardin1250 said:

I don’t think he has like a disease

He has a temper that’s it

Also you can’t just glaze over the fact that he murdered someone even if it’s debatable he had a good reason

Glaze over? Gloss over? The only evidence in the entire series that Adolin isn't the most controlled person on Roshar is when he killed Sadeas. Even that act, taken as an act of pure rage, wouldn't be enough to make a good case for Adolin having anger management issues. Sadeas basically stabbed himself in the eye with Adolin's dagger.

[The Technovore]

2 hours ago, Leuthie said:

~snip~

Heh, coming in a little hot there, Leuthie. Did ya not read the entire thread? Because pretty much everyone's in agreement that Adolin has no anger issues, and even the OP only said "I've seen this around the Shard, what do y'all think?"

Your point is well made though, I like what you brought up about having a provokable temper is actually a healthy thing.

[Bejarden]

4 hours ago, Leuthie said:

Holy hell, you people don't know what anger management issues are. Getting angry when directly provoked, then not actually doing anything about it, is exactly NOT anger management issues. In fact, someone who doesn't get angry when provoked is more likely to have anger management issues. When they finally explode...

Adolin didn't explode when he killed Sadeas. In fact, I remember his thoughts being relatively deliberate. He grabbed a knife and shoved it in Sadeas' eye to remove a threat. There was very little in the way of anger in the act. A little, but he didn't get so pissed that he couldn't control himself. He controlled himself just fine.

Glaze over? Gloss over? The only evidence in the entire series that Adolin isn't the most controlled person on Roshar is when he killed Sadeas. Even that act, taken as an act of pure rage, wouldn't be enough to make a good case for Adolin having anger management issues. Sadeas basically stabbed himself in the eye with Adolin's dagger.

The point is that he doesn’t have anger management issues but he does have a temper

A very very large temper 

[GroundPetrel]

26 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

The point is that he doesn’t have anger management issues but he does have a temper

A very very large temper 

...compared to who?  His dad the straight-up mass murderer?  

[The Technovore]

Or Kaladin, Mr. "I don't care if it's my dad's clinic or the middle of a staff meeting touch him and I'm tearing you apart?"

(This is a joke Kaladin isn't a passionate killer most of the time)

[Bejarden]

18 minutes ago, GroundPetrel said:

...compared to who?  His dad the straight-up mass murderer?  

Who’d he murder, it was war unless I’m missing an assassination 

And sadeas goads him into killing the rift so it was him he wasn’t  thinking straight and didn’t know what he was doing while Adolin was fully aware

Did we see anyone else murder a highprince, any officers or soldiers

They didn’t only Adolin did 

[GroundPetrel]

1 hour ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Who’d he murder, it was war unless I’m missing an assassination 

And sadeas goads him into killing the rift so it was him he wasn’t  thinking straight and didn’t know what he was doing while Adolin was fully aware

Did we see anyone else murder a highprince, any officers or soldiers

They didn’t only Adolin did 

Dalinar was a freaking butcher who liked killing.  The entire point of his Oathbringer flashback arc is him playing sociopath as hard as he can in a futile attempt to drown out the screams, which culminates in him killing a prisoner who was no longer any threat at all.  

Adolin killed a man who, after deliberately betraying Dalinar and Adolin in an attempt to get them killed, AND destabilizing the realm in an attempt to screw over Dalinar out of petty spite, explicitly and clearly stated to Adolin his express intent to continue betraying Dalinar out of petty spite.  The legal system is no recourse; the kingdom's in chaos, Dalinar will try to push for forgiveness in a futile attempt to buy Sadeas's loyalty during the apocalypse, and Sadeas has already proven his immense ability to game the system.  It will take years at least--years that Adolin and those he loves don't have--to convict Sadeas, and all the while he'll be spreading fake news left and right to discredit Dalinar and Adolin.  Ehlokar is no recourse, he's already seen as weak and Sadeas can easily cast this as a frame job by the Kholins to take away highprinces' privileges, since Sadeas didn't actually do any treason, just say it according to Adolin.  

Adolin was fully justified in striking Sadeas down right there on the spot.  It is, quite frankly, the logical thing for him to do.  Sadeas is an active threat to Adolin's family and the world as a whole.  He is protected by society to the same degree Adolin is, and is better at gaming the system.  The system is broken and designed to help men like Sadeas get away with their plots and schemes.  Hewing to authoritarianism and asking Ehlokar to do something will only destabilize the already wrecked kingdom.  

Sadeas walked up to somebody who could kick his butt with one hand tied behind his back and smugly declared that, since that guy could not do anything to Sadeas in a socially acceptable way, Sadeas was going to continue hurting and killing everybody that guy loves, and there's nothing you can do to stop me, mwahahahaha.  

That's a freaking Darwin award right there.  He counted on his social privilege and rich status to save him when he was in a dark alley with the Hood.  (if you've seen Arrow season 1, you know what I mean here)

[Bejarden]

Sadeas was practically already defeated

1: He had been completely discredited by Dalinar finding Urithiru

2: He was locked into a duel with Adolin whoch also discredits him

And killing Sadeas didn’t actually do anything 

It tightened the tensions that were already tought and it made Amaram take over who then directly fought against Dalinar

Aditionaly you’re misreading the Alethi society

It is completely acceptable to abandon your allies on the field, you might see it as wrong but society did not

And that makes what Adolin did pure murded of the 2nd degree (I think 2 not sure)

[Quick Ben]

13 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Who’d he murder, it was war unless I’m missing an assassination 

And sadeas goads him into killing the rift so it was him he wasn’t  thinking straight and didn’t know what he was doing while Adolin was fully aware

Did we see anyone else murder a highprince, any officers or soldiers

They didn’t only Adolin did 

Making excuses for how Dalinar committed mass murder at the rift, by claiming Sadeas goaded him, yet don't cut Adolin way less sack by realising He was goaded as well? 

[GroundPetrel]

1 hour ago, Quick Ben said:

Making excuses for how Dalinar committed mass murder at the rift, by claiming Sadeas goaded him, yet don't cut Adolin way less sack by realising He was goaded as well? 

Even then, Sadeas barely goaded Dalinar at all, Dalinar was just high on Nergaoul's Evil-Juice (makes you 3,000% more rageaholic or your soul back!) and toxic masculinity.  

Sadeas spent months privately and publicly rubbing Adolin's inability to get any measure of justice for Sadeas's betrayal of Dalinar and Adolin into Adolin's face.  This after, prior to the betrayal, personally insulting the brother who Adolin loves more than anything, almost certainly more than his wife and possibly as much as or more than Maya.  And Sadeas was being ableist on that point, too, which is heavily implied to be one of Adolin's berserk buttons.  

Essentially, Sadeas figured that he could use his social status and ability to game the broken and bigoted system to his advantage.  Then he decided that the galaxy-brain move would be to walk into a dark alley with no witnesses and tell the guy he'd been needling and betraying and screwing over for months "I'm going to betray and murder everyone you love and there's nothing you or anyone else can do to make me stop".  

Like I said.  Darwin Award material right there.  

[Frustration]

41 minutes ago, GroundPetrel said:

Even then, Sadeas barely goaded Dalinar at all, Dalinar was just high on Nergaoul's Evil-Juice (makes you 3,000% more rageaholic or your soul back!) and toxic masculinity.  

I agree on the first one, your second point is much less supported.

[GroundPetrel]

30 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I agree on the first one, your second point is much less supported.

In what way? 

[Frustration]

12 minutes ago, GroundPetrel said:

In what way? 

There is zero evidence to support it.

[Quick Ben]

58 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I agree on the first one, your second point is much less supported.

What second point ? 

 

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Quick Ben said:

What second point ? 

 

this one

1 hour ago, GroundPetrel said:

and toxic masculinity.  

 

[Quick Ben]

12 minutes ago, Frustration said:

this one

 

Thanks for clarifying, and ya i agree with you.

Nergaoul amplifies the lust for battle and puts one into a berserker like mode but wouldnt say was was toxic masculinity

[Daggon Forescout]

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

There is zero evidence to support it.

 

2 hours ago, Quick Ben said:

but wouldnt say was was toxic masculinity

I mean Alethi society does put a lot of pressure on men to be aggressive and violent. You saw how much people mock Renarin for not charging headfirst into battle along with everyone else. While Dalinar obviously takes it to an extreme, it's possible he never would have developed his bloodlust if he'd been raised in a less militaristic society. To bring it back to Adolin, I think people assume that since Adolin is reaching for his sword that means he can't control his anger, when in reality he's no more frustrated than we've all been. He's just been trained from a young age that address social problems with duels or by displaying prowess on the field of battle.