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Dalinar Will Lose - Part 5 Epigraphs


TheSprengineer

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The Epigraphs of Part 5 of RoW are all from the perspective of El, a Fused who I am already happy to be freaking scared of for Book 5. 

Rereading them all, I noticed a couple of things that make me really concerned for how the challenge will end up. 

His thoughts are spread over 19 chapters, but it isn't anything he himself actually says that set me off. It's the notation at the bottom of each.

"Musings of El, on the first of the Final Ten Days."

History is written by the victors. These are obviously thoughts collected by a historian AFTER the Challenge, calling the ten days agreed upon, the Final Ten Days. This in itself isn't concerning, an Alethi scholar could call it that just as easily. 
But the attribution is simply to El. Not, "Odium's General," not, "Ancient Fused," not "El, defeated at the Battle of Ral Ellorim" or whatever. Just. El. And just his idle musings.

El has his rhythms and title removed, and he is well-known for this in Fused society. Titles are very important and used as honorifics regularly. NOT having a title would be glaring, and just as telling, and it stands to reason that Singers would note El as simply El, because that is what he is, and all THEY need to know.
El, the titleless, who is ubiquitous for a very good, likely very depressing reason. Usually, a winning force wouldn't carefully collect the idle musings of an enemy combatant on the nature and virtues of subjugating humanity, but a Singer historian, recording the Final Ten Days of the war they'd been forced to fight for thousands of years?

Yeah, that could happen.
Dalinar will lose.
Odium Reins.

Edited by TheSprengineer
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The final ten days seem to refer to the fact that they have a ten day countdown until the contest is held.  El is recording his thoughts ahead of time either because he is confident of his victory or for some other reason.  Regardless of who actually wins I don't think this is evidence that the contest is going to go one way or the other.

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34 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It could very easily be something El wrote down beforehand.

 

Dalinar will not lose,

Brandon named his own son after him

Plot armor is eight miles thick

Dalinar is safe.

Journey before destination, friend. Plenty of people name their kids after lost heroes.

I’m not saying you’re wrong or that I’m dying on this hill, of course, but naming a kid after a badass is not a guarantee of the badasses’ safety. 

I do see Dalinar as more plot-expendable though now that Navani is a Bondsmith that can keep their key fallback point entirely secure. 

Edited by TheSprengineer
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/24/2021 at 3:21 PM, TheSprengineer said:

Journey before destination, friend. Plenty of people name their kids after lost heroes.

I’m not saying you’re wrong or that I’m dying on this hill, of course, but naming a kid after a badass is not a guarantee of the badasses’ safety. 

I do see Dalinar as more plot-expendable though now that Navani is a Bondsmith that can keep their key fallback point entirely secure. 

So 2 counterpoints:

1) I think we will need to see the 3 Bondsmiths before the end of book 5 not 1.

2) The Evil ones win, that being the Humans! (the good guys becoming the bad guys). 
         Who came to Roshar with the evil one Odium?  Humans
         Who subjugated the native inhabitants?  Humans
         Who took over the native inhabitants religion, following the original Gods of the World (Cultivation and Honor)?  Humans
         Who will exterminate the Voidbringers?  Humans

Dalinar can win or lose and the bad guys still win.
  Dalinar wins and Odium is still in control of parts of Roshar and still lives there.
  Dalinar loses and Odium is in more control of Roshar and still lives there.

Evil wins!

I think the second half of the Stormlight Archives will have the humans and singers finally realizing Odium is the Evil One and come together to defeat him.  But, I like a good fairy tale ending not a realistic one.

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On 24.2.2021 at 8:47 PM, Frustration said:

It could very easily be something El wrote down beforehand.

 

Dalinar will not lose,

Brandon named his own son after him

Plot armor is eight miles thick

Dalinar is safe.

Dalinar is in his fifties. Meaning in the second arc he will be pushing 70. Book#5 is his last book as an active character in the field ... unless he becomes a Fused.

And what is more glorious, becoming a wise old man in the background at best or leading the army of hellfire and god's wrath out into the Cosmere?

On 15.3.2021 at 8:37 PM, hskeeter said:

1) I think we will need to see the 3 Bondsmiths before the end of book 5 not 1.

We have, just not the conventional trio.

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2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Dalinar is in his fifties. Meaning in the second arc he will be pushing 70. Book#5 is his last book as an active character in the field ... unless he becomes a Fused.

And what is more glorious, becoming a wise old man in the background at best or leading the army of hellfire and god's wrath out into the Cosmere?

Mistborn

Spoiler

Vin wasn't a Character in Era 2

so I don't see why that is a problem.

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On 3/22/2021 at 0:24 PM, Waffles said:

A Fused Dalinar would be absolutely a masterpiece fallen hero character.

Win or loose Dalinar will stay a Human.  Toadi is all about humans surviving and now ruling across multiple worlds in the cosmere.  . 

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1 hour ago, hskeeter said:

 

Win or loose Dalinar will stay a Human.  Toadi is all about humans surviving and now ruling across multiple worlds in the cosmere.  . 

It's in the agreement he and Rayse made. If Dalinar's champion loses, he becomes a Fused. It wasn't an implied thing like "if you lose you'll serve me like the Fused do." 

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That could very well happen. For me it’s actually the predicted thing. How else could Brandon continue the story with five more books and only a decade time skip? With Lift growing up and doing some awesomeness, the Heralds healing themselves of the madness(This timeskip could be Kal’s way to heal them) and fighting Odium’s forces, bringing back hope and redeeming themselves, and other doing more stuff. Unless Dalinar can’t kill Odium’s champion and delays the end of the battle, staying alive, keeping the war going for more than a decade...

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9 minutes ago, Sureas said:

That could very well happen. For me it’s actually the predicted thing. How else could Brandon continue the story with five more books and only a decade time skip? With Lift growing up and doing some awesomeness, the Heralds healing themselves of the madness(This timeskip could be Kal’s way to heal them) and fighting Odium’s forces, bringing back hope and redeeming themselves, and other doing more stuff. Unless Dalinar can’t kill Odium’s champion and delays the end of the battle, staying alive, keeping the war going for more than a decade...

Odium doesn't have to be the Villain of the back five, they are basically different series

Edited by Frustration
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21 hours ago, Frustration said:

Odium doesn't have to be the Villain of the back five, they are basically different series

Thats a good point.

While this idea doesn't have a lot of traction on these forums, the first five books basically having a mistborn/gurren lagan style twist is a pathway for the story and is definitely something Brandon has possibly hinted at.

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21 hours ago, Frustration said:

Odium doesn't have to be the Villain of the back five, they are basically different series

43 minutes ago, Waffles said:

Thats a good point.

While this idea doesn't have a lot of traction on these forums, the first five books basically having a mistborn/gurren lagan style twist is a pathway for the story and is definitely something Brandon has possibly hinted at.

I agree totally, especially if Todium does not win the contest, he would then be on Braize for a thousand years IIRC.

The clues suggest the Heralds will have a lot to do with the second set of 5 books.

 

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