Kaladin vs Kalak

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I also think BAM is Odium’s bondsmith spren. I think she’s going to corrupt the Deadeyes when released, but instead of leaving them free -like Sja-Anat does - she’s going to control them and use them against the Radiants.

It's a common theory, but there is no Unmade-Bondsmith equivelent

[Kingsdaughter613]

11 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It's a common theory, but there is no Unmade-Bondsmith equivelent

BAM makes light, something we’ve only seen Bondsmith Spren do. She’s also been shown to manipulate Connection, something else associated with Bondsmith Spren.

I don’t think she was this originally; I think it was a natural result of Odium becoming Invested on Roshar. The interaction between Shards and planet naturally results in a ‘god Spren’ of some kind, and BAM became Odium’s as a result.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

BAM makes light, something we’ve only seen Bondsmith Spren do. She’s also been shown to manipulate Connection, something else associated with Bondsmith Spren.

I don’t think she was this originally; I think it was a natural result of Odium becoming Invested on Roshar. The interaction between Shards and planet naturally results in a ‘god Spren’ of some kind, and BAM became Odium’s as a result.

There are some similarities, it's not a 'there is nothing to compare to a Bondmith spren' but there is no equivelent

Spoiler

XS-Terrain

Also, does each of the Unmade have a corresponding order of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Eh... Kind of.

XS-Terrain

Ok. So there are nine Unmade right, so which one is left out?

Brandon Sanderson

Bondsmith. But it's not as one to one, there's some fuzziness in there.

Oathbringer San Francisco signing (Nov. 15, 2017)

 

[Kingsdaughter613]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

There are some similarities, it's not a 'there is nothing to compare to a Bondmith spren' but there is no equivelent

  Reveal hidden contents

XS-Terrain

Also, does each of the Unmade have a corresponding order of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Eh... Kind of.

XS-Terrain

Ok. So there are nine Unmade right, so which one is left out?

Brandon Sanderson

Bondsmith. But it's not as one to one, there's some fuzziness in there.

Oathbringer San Francisco signing (Nov. 15, 2017)

 

I don’t think she’s an equivalent. I think she is one, but it has nothing to do with Radiant orders.

The first two Bondsmith spren (which isn’t a great term, but I don’t have a better one) seem to be fundamental to life on Roshar. And I think the Nightwatcher and Stormfather, who are fundamental to Roshar, became the “Bondsmith” Spren for Cultivation and Honor via a natural process once the two Invested in Roshar. BAM began undergoing the same process for Odium as he became Invested in Roshar.

Bondsmith is a misnomer here. I just think every Shard ends up with a ‘god Spren’ of some kind if they Invest in Roshar as a natural function of the way Investiture manifests on the planet. The Sibling isn’t fundamental to Roshar in the same way and was a deliberate creation.

I don’t know that BAM can be ‘bound’ like the Stormfather and Nightwatcher. I think she is similar to them in the sense that she is a manifestation of Odium’s Investment on Roshar. The moment Odium fully Invested and his tone became a tone of Roshar, she became a fundamental part of the world too. And that happened when she was captured, which I envision as creating a metaphorical vacuum that drew Odium’s Investiture in. And that was the moment the Everstorm began to form.

I do think she needs to be freed, but I don’t think it will do anything good for the coalition, at least initially.

[bmcclure7]

On 2/28/2021 at 9:37 AM, Frustration said:

It's a common theory, but there is no Unmade-Bondsmith equivelent

Not yet but BAM is is involving.  Originally she couldn't make regales but she learned how to form bonds to singers. I could easily see her developing the ability to form a knights radiance bond and thereby become the next bond Smith spren. 

[Could Be Fire]

On 2/24/2021 at 7:28 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

But I actually do think Kalak is a traitor. I’ve thought there was a traitor herald for a while and it does fit. He’s terrified of being tortured again; how better to avoid it than siding with the torturer? His people tried to return the Desolations. He claims he can’t make decisions, but manages to lead and manipulate an entire team? He knows far too much about the dagger, including information he shouldn’t have, but doesn’t know who used it? Oh, and he’s trying to get Shallan to release a very dangerous Unmade with no guarantees.

He’s also the first character we’re introduced to. And he’s convinced even then that Odium will get free. The SoH have been our heroes enemies from the beginning and their actions have always involved betrayal; it makes a lot of sense to me that their boss will follow the same trend. They started the plot in many ways; I think they’re going to end it.

I'm not sure I agree with Kalak is a traitor. His letter shows an interest in cosmere science and investiture, which could explain why he knows a lot about the dagger. He could understand the theory behind it but not know where it is (like knowing nuclear physics vs. knowing the launch codes). We also don't know BAM is evil, the fused are 'very dangerous' but Leshwi has almost as much honor as Kaladin. And it's been made clear that the binding of BAM and the resultant enslavement and literal mindwipe of all the Singers was a pretty serious crime against humanity (singer-manity?)

We don't know to what degree he is actually managing to lead the Sons of Honor, the discussion we see with Gavilar in RoW do not give me the impression that he's actually in charge. We see in RoW during the trial that a subgroup of the honorspren are very much managing him even if he's technically High Judge. Even when we see him in the prologues, Nale is clearly the dominant personality. I think it's more likely that someone else is manipulating him than he's the evil mastermind. Honestly, he may be an antagonist, but he reads more as an Elhokar (paranoid but not directly malicious) than a Saedas (calculated and deeply malevolent). 

My best guess is Ishar. Nale leads the Skybreakers and Kalak (as Restares) supposedly leads to SoH, groups with apparently contradictory goals (SoH want to bring the KR back, SB want to kill them). However, Kalak and Nale seem to be working together, they're a unit at the feast and we know they were both at BAMs binding. We know that Nale relies on Ishar and follows his orders, I think Kalak might be as well. It would fit in the reveal that Ishar is up to some serious nonsense. 

[Born of The Storm]

I for one think Kaladin is going to find out and pound Kalak into the ground

[+Harrycrapper]

Kaladin's Oaths will prevent him from seeking revenge on Kalak unless he is a danger to someone in the present. Also, Kaladin is supposed to be going with Szeth and Dalinar to help heal Ishar of the madness that plagues the Heralds and Ishar's crimes exceed Kalak's. So, if they're going to somehow redeem Ishar, taking a hardline with Kalak wouldn't be fair. 

If Kaladin remembers Amaram mentioning Restares and learns that Kalak goes by Restares, his encounter with him will test all of Kaladin's Oaths:

• Protect those who cannot protect themselves - Kalak cannot protect himself against his madness
• Protect even those you hate - He will hate Kalak if he learns the truth
• Accept there are those you cannot save - He'll need to accept he couldn't save his squadmates and killing Kalak will not bring them back

[Bejarden]

2 hours ago, Harrycrapper said:

Kaladin's Oaths will prevent him from seeking revenge on Kalak unless he is a danger to someone in the present. Also, Kaladin is supposed to be going with Szeth and Dalinar to help heal Ishar of the madness that plagues the Heralds and Ishar's crimes exceed Kalak's. So, if they're going to somehow redeem Ishar, taking a hardline with Kalak wouldn't be fair. 

If Kaladin remembers Amaram mentioning Restares and learns that Kalak goes by Restares, his encounter with him will test all of Kaladin's Oaths:

• Protect those who cannot protect themselves - Kalak cannot protect himself against his madness
• Protect even those you hate - He will hate Kalak if he learns the truth
• Accept there are those you cannot save - He'll need to accept he couldn't save his squadmates and killing Kalak will not bring them back

This will be Kaladins challenge

He will have to fulfill his Oaths to not attack Kalak, but he always has had a problem doing this