I am now convinced that a certain character from Sel is going to become a Ghostblood (Spoilers for MB, TES)

[Jellomancer]

NOTE: This post contains some spoilers for the story "The Emperor's Soul" and the Mistborn books including Secret History

I recently started rereading some of the other Cosmere books after RoW (Elantris, Mistborn, portions of Arcanum Unbounded). After reading "The Emperor's Soul" I have come to a conclusion that I sure hope is true.

After the big reveal in Rhythm of War regarding Thaidakar's identity, I am convinced that Shai is going to turn up as a Ghostblood.

There are a few reasons for this:

1) Shai is the perfect crew member for Kelsier - Kelsier has a penchant for gathering specialists in every arena, and no one is a greater specialist in Forging than Shai. Even beyond using the actual magical skill of Forging, she is stunningly skilled in overall forgery and subterfuge of many types that would deeply interest Kel.

2) Like Kel, Shai has issues with Hoid - We know from "The Emperor's Soul" that Shai ended up being captured in the first place because Hoid sold her out (as the Imperial Fool, aka Wit 1.0) in order to steal the Moon Scepter, a sort of key to access all of the investiture related powers on Sel. She is on a mission to hunt him down. We know Kel & Hoid also have potential unfinished business after their volatile confrontation at The Well of Ascension. The enemy of my enemy is my friend--Kel & Shai are natural allies.

3) Sel might be the easiest planet for Kel to worldhop to--or at least meet Shai from - I say "easy" with caution due to the dangerous nature of worldhopping to Sel (due to the investiture storm caused by the splinters of Devotion & Dominion in the cognitive realm), but we know from Secret History that the IRE were able to set up a base (theoretically connected to the Dor somehow--long extension cord? ) on the edge of Scadrial's portion of Shadesmar. This begs the question if Scadrial is "close" to Sel's Shadesmar. We still don't know how someone would worldhop to Sel, but it seems reasonable that either A) Kel might have figured out how to do so, B ) He at least got to Sel's Shadesmar zone (perhaps to some sort of safe haven there?), or C) Shai managed to worldhop somehow and they met elsewhere. Addendum:  We know the Ghostbloods have connections on Sel. It is also significant that Mraize has a Seon which further connects them to that world.

4) They share a unique connection in their scars - It really stood out to me this time that Shai shares a unique trait with Kel--the arm scars left on her by the Bloodsealer's cuts. She was cut every single day over the course of around 90-something days. Kel's title as Lord of Scars may be a point of interesting connection with Shai.

5) She would make quite the formidable foil to Shallan - The similarities between forgery and both lightweaving & soulcasting are striking. Shai is a considerable con-artist even without Forgery, but if she & or Kel were to figure out how to overcome the connection problem with Sel (something we already know Kel is interested in and may have figured out related to the discovery of those Nicrosil excisor medallions), she might be able to access Forgery to a limited degree off-world. Shai and Shallan are both artists, both talented at disguise, and both have the ability to affect the souls of objects in different ways. With Shallan having potentially allied with Wit rather than Thaidakar, a conflict could be very interesting.

6) We know that Brandon has confirmed Shai will show up again--potentially as a worldhopper - The Cosmere has grown much more complex since some of the big reveals in Rhythm of War. Of all the various factions at work among the Cosmere-aware, the Ghostbloods seems the most likely one to match Shai's skills and personality as opposed to the 17th Shard, IRE, etc. We know she's showing up again--while anything can happen, this theory seems like a strong possibility.

What are your thoughts? Any other connections (or things I totally missed)?

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Jellomancer

[Kingsdaughter613]

7 minutes ago, Jellomancer said:

NOTE: This post contains some spoilers for the story "The Emperor's Soul" and the Mistborn books including Secret History

I recently started rereading some of the other Cosmere books after RoW (Elantris, Mistborn, portions of Arcanum Unbounded). After reading "The Emperor's Soul" I have come to a conclusion that I sure hope is true.

After the big reveal in Rhythm of War regarding Thaidakar's identity, I am convinced that Shai is going to turn up as a Ghostblood.

There are a few reasons for this:

1) Shai is the perfect crew member for Kelsier - Kelsier has a penchant for gathering specialists in every arena, and no one is a greater specialist in Forging than Shai. Even beyond using the actual magical skill of Forging, she is stunningly skilled in overall forgery and subterfuge of many types that would deeply interest Kel.

2) Like Kel, Shai has issues with Hoid - We know from "The Emperor's Soul" that Shai ended up being captured in the first place because Hoid sold her out (as the Imperial Fool, aka Wit 1.0) in order to steal the Moon Scepter, a sort of key to access all of the investiture related powers on Sel. She is on a mission to hunt him down. We know Kel & Hoid also have potential unfinished business after their volatile confrontation at The Well of Ascension. The enemy of my enemy is my friend--Kel & Shai are natural allies.

3) Sel might be the easiest planet for Kel to worldhop to--or at least meet Shai from - I say "easy" with caution due to the dangerous nature of worldhopping to Sel (due to the investiture storm caused by the splinters of Devotion & Dominion in the cognitive realm), but we know from Secret History that the IRE were able to set up a base (theoretically connected to the Dor somehow--long extension cord? ) on the edge of Scadrial's portion of Shadesmar. This begs the question if Scadrial is "close" to Sel's Shadesmar. We still don't know how someone would worldhop to Sel, but it seems reasonable that either A) Kel might have figured out how to do so, B ) He at least got to Sel's Shadesmar zone (perhaps to some sort of safe haven there?), or C) Shai managed to worldhop somehow and they met elsewhere.

4) They share a unique connection in their scars - It really stood out to me this time that Shai shares a unique trait with Kel--the arm scars left on her by the Bloodsealer's cuts. She was cut every single day over the course of around 90-something days. Kel's title as Lord of Scars may be a point of interesting connection with Shai.

5) She would make quite the formidable foil to Shallan - The similarities between forgery and both lightweaving & soulcasting are striking. Shai is a considerable con-artist even without Forgery, but if she & or Kel were to figure out how to overcome the connection problem with Sel (something we already know Kel is interested in and may have figured out related to the discovery of those Nicrosil excisor medallions), she might be able to access Forgery to a limited degree off-world. Shai and Shallan are both artists, both talented at disguise, and both have the ability to affect the souls of objects in different ways. With Shallan having potentially allied with Wit rather than Thaidakar, a conflict could be very interesting.

6) We know that Brandon has confirmed Shai will show up again--potentially as a worldhopper - The Cosmere has grown much more complex since some of the big reveals in Rhythm of War. Of all the various factions at work among the Cosmere-aware, the Ghostbloods seems the most likely one to match Shai's skills and personality as opposed to the 17th Shard, IRE, etc. We know she's showing up again--while anything can happen, this theory seems like a strong possibility.

What are your thoughts? Any other connections (or things I totally missed)?

 

Kelsier hasn’t worldhopped, but his people have definitely made it to Sel.

If Shai is a GB though, she’s likely to be in the inner circle, so in closer contact with Kell than most of the Rosharan GBs appear to be.

[+Oltux72]

7 hours ago, Jellomancer said:

NOTE: This post contains some spoilers for the story "The Emperor's Soul" and the Mistborn books including Secret History

I recently started rereading some of the other Cosmere books after RoW (Elantris, Mistborn, portions of Arcanum Unbounded). After reading "The Emperor's Soul" I have come to a conclusion that I sure hope is true.

After the big reveal in Rhythm of War regarding Thaidakar's identity, I am convinced that Shai is going to turn up as a Ghostblood.

It leaves us with an issue of timing though. How old is Shai?

(Scadrial)

Spoiler

It always seemed to me that Elantris predates the Catacendre considerably, maybe even Rashek becoming The Lord Ruler

And The Emperor's Soul is not that much later than Elantris, is it?
In other words how come she was still alive when Kelsier became Thaidakar? That presupposes that she left on her own a long time before that.

 

[Kingsdaughter613]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

It leaves us with an issue of timing though. How old is Shai?

(Scadrial)

  Reveal hidden contents

It always seemed to me that Elantris predates the Catacendre considerably, maybe even Rashek becoming The Lord Ruler

And The Emperor's Soul is not that much later than Elantris, is it?
In other words how come she was still alive when Kelsier became Thaidakar? That presupposes that she left on her own a long time before that.

 

The same way other worldhoppers extend their lives?

[Jellomancer]

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

It leaves us with an issue of timing though. How old is Shai?

(Scadrial)

  Reveal hidden contents

It always seemed to me that Elantris predates the Catacendre considerably, maybe even Rashek becoming The Lord Ruler

And The Emperor's Soul is not that much later than Elantris, is it?
In other words how come she was still alive when Kelsier became Thaidakar? That presupposes that she left on her own a long time before that.

 

You are correct that timing could be an issue, but I don't think it is insurmountable considering the fact we have seen other worldhoppers extend their lives. Do we know about when on the timeline Elantris & Emperor's Soul takes place as compared to Mistborn and Stormlight?

Edited February 21, 2021 by Jellomancer

[mathiau]

11 hours ago, Jellomancer said:

1) Shai is the perfect crew member for Kelsier - Kelsier has a penchant for gathering specialists in every arena, and no one is a greater specialist in Forging than Shai. Even beyond using the actual magical skill of Forging, she is stunningly skilled in overall forgery and subterfuge of many types that would deeply interest Kel.

Note that Kel's medalions technologies can be used to allow people to use Sel's magic offworld

Quote

3) Sel might be the easiest planet for Kel to worldhop to--or at least meet Shai from - I say "easy" with caution due to the dangerous nature of worldhopping to Sel (due to the investiture storm caused by the splinters of Devotion & Dominion in the cognitive realm), but we know from Secret History that the IRE were able to set up a base (theoretically connected to the Dor somehow--long extension cord? ) on the edge of Scadrial's portion of Shadesmar. This begs the question if Scadrial is "close" to Sel's Shadesmar. We still don't know how someone would worldhop to Sel, but it seems reasonable that either A) Kel might have figured out how to do so, B ) He at least got to Sel's Shadesmar zone (perhaps to some sort of safe haven there?), or C) Shai managed to worldhop somehow and they met elsewhere. Addendum:  We know the Ghostbloods have connections on Sel. It is also significant that Mraize has a Seon which further connects them to that world.

It's almost certain you cannot worldhop for Scadrial to Sel but have to hop to Roshar/the Expanse of Vibrance (or of the Broken Sky if it's not Taldain and you're mad)

Quote

4) They share a unique connection in their scars - It really stood out to me this time that Shai shares a unique trait with Kel--the arm scars left on her by the Bloodsealer's cuts. She was cut every single day over the course of around 90-something days. Kel's title as Lord of Scars may be a point of interesting connection with Shai.

I don't remember these cuts being deep enough to leave scars

Quote

5) She would make quite the formidable foil to Shallan - The similarities between forgery and both lightweaving & soulcasting are striking. Shai is a considerable con-artist even without Forgery, but if she & or Kel were to figure out how to overcome the connection problem with Sel (something we already know Kel is interested in and may have figured out related to the discovery of those Nicrosil excisor medallions), she might be able to access Forgery to a limited degree off-world. Shai and Shallan are both artists, both talented at disguise, and both have the ability to affect the souls of objects in different ways. With Shallan having potentially allied with Wit rather than Thaidakar, a conflict could be very interesting.

Note that Shai could become a Lightweaver, althoug she'd ne more likely to become an Edgedancer.

She'd also make a good foil to Mraize, being far nicer

Quote

6) We know that Brandon has confirmed Shai will show up again--potentially as a worldhopper - The Cosmere has grown much more complex since some of the big reveals in Rhythm of War. Of all the various factions at work among the Cosmere-aware, the Ghostbloods seems the most likely one to match Shai's skills and personality as opposed to the 17th Shard, IRE, etc. We know she's showing up again--while anything can happen, this theory seems like a strong possibility.

What are your thoughts? Any other connections (or things I totally missed)?

I think she'd make sens in Khriss's organisation, but we really don't know much about them

4 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

It leaves us with an issue of timing though. How old is Shai?

(Scadrial)

  Reveal hidden contents

It always seemed to me that Elantris predates the Catacendre considerably, maybe even Rashek becoming The Lord Ruler

And The Emperor's Soul is not that much later than Elantris, is it?
In other words how come she was still alive when Kelsier became Thaidakar? That presupposes that she left on her own a long time before that.

Shai will probably be a side-character in Elantris 2 so yeah, these two story are quite close.

Elantris happened centuries before Era 1

Edited February 21, 2021 by mathiau

[+mdross81]

12 hours ago, Jellomancer said:

What are your thoughts? Any other connections (or things I totally missed)?

Nice post @Jellomancer

I have a pet/crackpot theory that Zu, the Stoneward, is actually Shai.

The head of the guards charged with watching Shai in TES was Captain Zu. I think Shai may have co-opted parts of his personality in creating a new identity for herself.

Zu is really vague in discussing her background with Adolin, but at one point, when asked what she did before becoming a Radiant, she responds like this:

Quote

Adolin hesitated. “Zu, what did you used to do?”

“Make trouble, mostly,” the Iriali woman said.

And of course she would be a Stoneward given how accomplished Shai was at Forging stone.

A bit far-fetched I know, but for now it’s my head canon. 

[Adonoliusm]

I think that Shai would make an interesting counterpart to Shallan, but how would Shia live so long as that would mean she had probably found a way to reforge her soul constantly. therefore,I don't think Brandon Sanderson would include Shia because he is very good at subverting expectations.

[teknopathetic]

56 minutes ago, mdross81 said:

Nice post @Jellomancer

I have a pet/crackpot theory that Zu, the Stoneward, is actually Shai.

The head of the guards charged with watching Shai in TES was Captain Zu. I think Shai may have co-opted parts of his personality in creating a new identity for herself.

Zu is really vague in discussing her background with Adolin, but at one point, when asked what she did before becoming a Radiant, she responds like this:

And of course she would be a Stoneward given how accomplished Shai was at Forging stone.

A bit far-fetched I know, but for now it’s my head canon. 

Shai figuring out how to get Soulstamps to work off world and then becoming a Stoneward would be amazing, and I WANT IT, but it seems unlikely. 

 

It does seem odd that Brandon spent time asking a character named Zu about their past though... But as Shai is extremely not Iriali, it seems odd she would choose that group to Soulstamp herself into when she could have likely pulled off an Eastern ethnicity. I guess we don't know what/who the Iriali are, so maybe there is something there. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by teknopathetic

[+mdross81]

14 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Shai figuring out how to get Soulstamps to work off world and then becoming a Stoneward would be amazing, and I WANT IT, but it seems unlikely. 

 

I’ve been trying to think about how this might work. If I remember correctly, frequent restamping is required for a significantly transformative Forgery. And I assume that being too far away from Sel would pose a problem for that unless you have some kind of pipeline to the Dor through the Cognitive Realm like we see in Secret History.

How sadly ironic would it be for Kelek if Shai had figured out some workaround. She was camped right outside Lasting Integrity with the secret Kelek needs, but because of the isolationist Honorspren, she was denied entry and eventually left.

[mathiau]

5 hours ago, Adonoliusm said:

I think that Shai would make an interesting counterpart to Shallan, but how would Shia live so long as that would mean she had probably found a way to reforge her soul constantly. therefore,I don't think Brandon Sanderson would include Shia because he is very good at subverting expectations.

We see Worldhopper live for longer than they should all the time, for example Khriss is probably around 1000 and at least 500

5 hours ago, mdross81 said:

I’ve been trying to think about how this might work. If I remember correctly, frequent restamping is required for a significantly transformative Forgery. And I assume that being too far away from Sel would pose a problem for that unless you have some kind of pipeline to the Dor through the Cognitive Realm like we see in Secret History.

How sadly ironic would it be for Kelek if Shai had figured out some workaround. She was camped right outside Lasting Integrity with the secret Kelek needs, but because of the isolationist Honorspren, she was denied entry and eventually left.

The ways to use the Dor offworld are probably not things that would help Kelek or Kel to get offworld, for the former Duralumin Feruchemy is enough (and according to Brandon, there are far easier ways) while for the second it's not

[stonewalker16]

@Jellomancer, I kind of agree with your point that Sel would be the easiest planet for Kel to worldhop to, especially since he gained some Connection to Sel from infiltrating the IRE. Besides, the Investiture storm might not bother him since he's a cognative shadow. Heck, it might even help him since he might be able to absorb some of the stray investiture.