Organizing the Shards with the Metallic Arts

[perfectlybalanced]

We got a lot more shared names in Rhythm of War. While reading mission era 1 again my wife and I wondered if there was a connection between the 16 metals and 16 shards. We decided to first look and see if we could divide the Shards into the four groups of physical, cognitive, spiritual, and temporal. We then thought about pairs inside of these and then their connection with allomantic and feruchemy powers. 

Attached below is our chart but the ones we like the most are the physical and temporal ones. 

A quick summary of some of our thoughts:
Endowment is about giving while Ambition is about taking making them good foils and about physical things. This made us think of the pull and push of iron and steel. 

Dominion is about controlling a place while Autonomy is about giving places their own control. Pewter is about muscles so seems to connect with Dominion while Autonomy seems to like to keep a lookout for things with his avatars like a tineye. 

Ruin is about changing things even until they are destroyed while Preservation is clearly opposed to this. Preservation seems like cadmium where you slow down time (less change) whole ruin speeds up time like with bendalloy. These both seem to relate to time hence temporal.

Devotion could be thought of holding strongly to a past belief hence gold which looks at the past you. Cultivation is about changing yourself or others into something new which fits with seeing your future moves like electrum. This also fits with cultivation having better foresight. These both look at change in time hence temporal.

The others may be more speculative but Odium seems to almost soothe emotions as he takes them from people like brass. Perhaps Valor riots emotions as valor is associated with bravery hence valor would be brass. These both clearly deal with emotions so perhaps cognitive.

We have heard of a possible shard being called wisdom/prudence which is definitely cognitive and may be about hiding from danger hence Copper which hides allomantic pulses. The opposite may be Invention which involves searching for new things and hence bronze to hear allomantic pulses.

Lastly Whimsy feels like it should match aluminum since aluminum just messes with every magic system and hence could be the foil to Honor who may take things too seriously which could also equate with Duralumin which gives other metals great strength but also depletes them quicker. These got put in spiritual with mercy in part because we weren’t sure where these should go. 
 

What do you all think? 

 

 

[Halyo_Alex]

I definitely think the "tri-realmic + time" set of four is part of how you can divvy up the Intents of the Shards. I'm not sure if each Shard has an allomantic counterpart (i'd be very curious to see if a god-alloy with their associated metal has a particularly outstanding effect compared to the alloys with the other 15 base metals), since Brandon has stated that not every shard has an opposite as perfect as ruin/preservation are, meaning that a push/pull axis of reflection likely doesn't exist inside the 16 intents.

[Kingsdaughter613]

These are my groupings, utilizing both Dawnshards and Metallic arts.

 

Change/Temporal: This is the one Rysn has

(Push)Cultivation-(Pull)Ruin (external)

(Push)Invention-(Pull)Whimsy (Internal)

 

Connect (Unite)/Spiritual: This is the one that binds and is the second Rosharan Dawnshard

(Push)Dominion-(Pull)Honor (External)

(Push)Odium-(Pull)Devotion (Internal)

 

Endure (Survive)/Physical: This is the one Hoid held and it may be on Scadrial.

(Push)Industry-(Pull)Preservation (external)

(Push)Prudence/Wisdom-(Pull)Mercy (internal)

 

Aspire/Cognitive: We don’t really have any theories or guesses on this one, but it’s likely on a planet with an associated Shard.

(Push)Endowment-(Pull)Autonomy (external)

(Push)Ambition-(Pull)Valor (internal)

I really need to redraw my chart.

[Halyo_Alex]

22 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

These are my groupings, utilizing both Dawnshards and Metallic arts.

 

Change/Temporal: This is the one Rysn has

(Push)Cultivation-(Pull)Ruin (external)

(Push)Invention-(Pull)Whimsy (Internal)

 

Connect (Unite)/Spiritual: This is the one that binds and is the second Rosharan Dawnshard

(Push)Dominion-(Pull)Honor (External)

(Push)Odium-(Pull)Devotion (Internal)

 

Endure (Survive)/Physical: This is the one Hoid held and it may be on Scadrial.

(Push)Industry-(Pull)Preservation (external)

(Push)Prudence/Wisdom-(Pull)Mercy (internal)

 

Aspire/Cognitive: We don’t really have any theories or guesses on this one, but it’s likely on a planet with an associated Shard.

(Push)Endowment-(Pull)Autonomy (external)

(Push)Ambition-(Pull)Valor (internal)

I really need to redraw my chart.

Yeah, this set really feels good in terms of labeling the 4 quadrants.

But one idea I'm partial to is the idea of each Dawnshard then being used to further subdivide the quadrants into 4 more pieces, a second layer of Sharding compared to the 4 initial quarters.

So for example Ruin could be defined as being the Change part of the Change quadrant, whereas Cultivation might be the Endure/Survive part of the Change quadrant.

Honor might be Unite-Unite, Odium may be Unite-Change, or something else. These are just examples off the top of my head.

[Kingsdaughter613]

19 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Yeah, this set really feels good in terms of labeling the 4 quadrants.

But one idea I'm partial to is the idea of each Dawnshard then being used to further subdivide the quadrants into 4 more pieces, a second layer of Sharding compared to the 4 initial quarters.

So for example Ruin could be defined as being the Change part of the Change quadrant, whereas Cultivation might be the Endure/Survive part of the Change quadrant.

Honor might be Unite-Unite, Odium may be Unite-Change, or something else. These are just examples off the top of my head.

That’s an interesting thought! Hmm...

I think I’d put Cultivation as Change/Aspire, because she’s about Growth.

Invention would be Change/Endure, because Necessity is the mother of Invention.

Whimsy might be Change/Connect, especially if it does include that element of child-like wonder.

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, Kingsdaughter613 said:

That’s an interesting thought! Hmm...

I think I’d put Cultivation as Change/Aspire, because she’s about Growth.

Invention would be Change/Endure, because Necessity is the mother of Invention.

Whimsy might be Change/Connect, especially if it does include that element of child-like wonder.

It's also worth noting that the order matters, since there's a subdivision going on.

So Change/Aspire isn't the same as Aspire/Change. One is in the Change quadrant, the other is in the Aspire quadrant.

[Kingsdaughter613]

5 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

It's also worth noting that the order matters, since there's a subdivision going on.

So Change/Aspire isn't the same as Aspire/Change. One is in the Change quadrant, the other is in the Aspire quadrant.

Yes, that’s why I put the Change first.

[mathiau]

6 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

It's also worth noting that the order matters, since there's a subdivision going on.

So Change/Aspire isn't the same as Aspire/Change. One is in the Change quadrant, the other is in the Aspire quadrant.

6 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Yes, that’s why I put the Change first.

Aspire/Change would be Endowment I think

 

Honour = Connect/Connect

Dominion (~Conquest) = Connect/Aspire

Devotion (~Love) = Connect/Endure

Odium = Connect/Change

 

Preservation (~Stillness) = Endure/Endure

Mercy = Endure/Connect

Wisdom-ish = Endure/Aspire

The Unknown Shard = Endure/Change

 

Ambition = Aspire/Aspire

Endowment = Aspire/Change

Autonomy = Aspire/Endure

Valour = Aspire/Connect

(with an argument to exchange Valour and Endowment)

 

Ruin (~2nd principle) = Change/Change

Cultivation = Change/Aspire

Invention = Change/Endure

Whimsy = Change/Connect

I'm far less sold on that fourth one but I can't think of anything better, the main issue is that Ruin is the impersonation of the force leading to the heat death of the universe which is not really something encompassed in Change/Change (though Change/Change works very well as Preservation's opposite) Change/Endure and Change/Connect are worse and for Change/Aspire well

Ruin (~2nd principle) = Change/Aspire

Cultivation = Change/Endure

Invention = Change/Change (maybe exchanged with Cultivation)

Whimsy = Change/Connect

Meh.

6 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Invention would be Change/Endure, because Necessity is the mother of Invention.

I could see the exact same argument being used for Invention=Change/Aspire

If it's true you would have Cultivation=Change/Endure because making things grow

I personally like Cultivation=Change/Aspire because of an issue I ran into when I first made my Dawshard grouping: Cultivation and Edowment's methods to influence the worlds are literally the same. Originally this was a problem because it made putting Endowment in the Change quadrant redundant with Cultivation being there (which, I assume, is part of the reason she's in the Aspire quadrant in your version). Now we can make that issue a feature and assume a Shard will be at least somewhat similar to it's reverse Shard

[Kingsdaughter613]

58 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Aspire/Change would be Endowment I think

 

Honour = Connect/Connect

Dominion (~Conquest) = Connect/Aspire

Devotion (~Love) = Connect/Endure

Odium = Connect/Change

 

Preservation (~Stillness) = Endure/Endure

Mercy = Endure/Connect

Wisdom-ish = Endure/Aspire

The Unknown Shard = Endure/Change

 

Ambition = Aspire/Aspire

Endowment = Aspire/Change

Autonomy = Aspire/Endure

Valour = Aspire/Connect

(with an argument to exchange Valour and Endowment)

 

Ruin (~2nd principle) = Change/Change

Cultivation = Change/Aspire

Invention = Change/Endure

Whimsy = Change/Connect

I'm far less sold on that fourth one but I can't think of anything better, the main issue is that Ruin is the impersonation of the force leading to the heat death of the universe which is not really something encompassed in Change/Change (though Change/Change works very well as Preservation's opposite) Change/Endure and Change/Connect are worse and for Change/Aspire well

Ruin (~2nd principle) = Change/Aspire

Cultivation = Change/Endure

Invention = Change/Change (maybe exchanged with Cultivation)

Whimsy = Change/Connect

Meh.

I could see the exact same argument being used for Invention=Change/Aspire

If it's true you would have Cultivation=Change/Endure because making things grow

I personally like Cultivation=Change/Aspire because of an issue I ran into when I first made my Dawshard grouping: Cultivation and Edowment's methods to influence the worlds are literally the same. Originally this was a problem because it made putting Endowment in the Change quadrant redundant with Cultivation being there (which, I assume, is part of the reason she's in the Aspire quadrant in your version). Now we can make that issue a feature and assume a Shard will be at least somewhat similar to it's reverse Shard

Interesting thought. I don’t see Cultivation as including Endure because part of Cultivation is removing parts that don’t work. Nothing endures when you Cultivate. Instead everything is turned toward a new purpose.

I see Cultivation and Endowment as working in similar, but very different ways. Cultivation works by shaping things so they grow in certain ways; Endowment works by providing encouragement for things to develop in particular matters. Essentially, Cultivation shapes you, while Endowment encourages you.  Cultivation is a lot more deliberate; Endowment involves a lot more personal choice.

I could see Cultivation as Change/Connect, swapping with Whimsy, as everything in a biosphere is connected. I could also see it as Change/Change, but Ruin really doesn’t fit most of the categories well.

Random Two of Spears (incomplete):

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Kingsdaughter613

[Halyo_Alex]

2 hours ago, mathiau said:

Honour = Connect/Connect

Dominion (~Conquest) = Connect/Aspire

Devotion (~Love) = Connect/Endure

Odium = Connect/Change

 

Preservation (~Stillness) = Endure/Endure

Mercy = Endure/Connect

Wisdom-ish = Endure/Aspire

The Unknown Shard = Endure/Change

 

Ambition = Aspire/Aspire

Endowment = Aspire/Change

Autonomy = Aspire/Endure

Valour = Aspire/Connect

(with an argument to exchange Valour and Endowment)

 

Ruin (~2nd principle) = Change/Change

Cultivation = Change/Aspire

Invention = Change/Endure

Whimsy = Change/Connect

I'm far less sold on that fourth one but I can't think of anything better, the main issue is that Ruin is the impersonation of the force leading to the heat death of the universe which is not really something encompassed in Change/Change (though Change/Change works very well as Preservation's opposite) Change/Endure and Change/Connect are worse and for Change/Aspire well

Ruin (~2nd principle) = Change/Aspire

Cultivation = Change/Endure

Invention = Change/Change (maybe exchanged with Cultivation)

Whimsy = Change/Connect

Meh.

Honestly I do agree that Ruin ought to be Change/Change, thermodynamics is the reason there's a particular "arrow of time" in the first place (things tend to go from orderly to disorderly and that's how our memories form; imagine if we remembered the future but forgot the past. That would be... really strange). So Entropy (ruin) is Change for the sake of Change.

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Interesting thought. I don’t see Cultivation as including Endure because part of Cultivation is removing parts that don’t work. Nothing endures when you Cultivate. Instead everything is turned toward a new purpose.

I see Cultivation and Endowment as working in similar, but very different ways. Cultivation works by shaping things so they grow in certain ways; Endowment works by providing encouragement for things to develop in particular matters. Essentially, Cultivation shapes you, while Endowment encourages you.  Cultivation is a lot more deliberate; Endowment involves a lot more personal choice.

I could see Cultivation as Change/Connect, swapping with Whimsy, as everything in a biosphere is connected. I could also see it as Change/Change, but Ruin really doesn’t fit most of the categories well.

Cultivation is kind of tricky to pin down, but I think Change/Endure works because Cultivating something is cutting away the bad stuff to make the good stuff survive (endure). So you change an organism (or collection of organisms) to make it (them) more likely to persist.

The rest of those look fine to me.

[basement_boi]

On 2/20/2021 at 11:34 AM, perfectlybalanced said:

We got a lot more shared names in Rhythm of War. While reading mission era 1 again my wife and I wondered if there was a connection between the 16 metals and 16 shards. We decided to first look and see if we could divide the Shards into the four groups of physical, cognitive, spiritual, and temporal. We then thought about pairs inside of these and then their connection with allomantic and feruchemy powers. 

Attached below is our chart but the ones we like the most are the physical and temporal ones. 

A quick summary of some of our thoughts:
Endowment is about giving while Ambition is about taking making them good foils and about physical things. This made us think of the pull and push of iron and steel. 

Dominion is about controlling a place while Autonomy is about giving places their own control. Pewter is about muscles so seems to connect with Dominion while Autonomy seems to like to keep a lookout for things with his avatars like a tineye. 

Ruin is about changing things even until they are destroyed while Preservation is clearly opposed to this. Preservation seems like cadmium where you slow down time (less change) whole ruin speeds up time like with bendalloy. These both seem to relate to time hence temporal.

Devotion could be thought of holding strongly to a past belief hence gold which looks at the past you. Cultivation is about changing yourself or others into something new which fits with seeing your future moves like electrum. This also fits with cultivation having better foresight. These both look at change in time hence temporal.

The others may be more speculative but Odium seems to almost soothe emotions as he takes them from people like brass. Perhaps Valor riots emotions as valor is associated with bravery hence valor would be brass. These both clearly deal with emotions so perhaps cognitive.

We have heard of a possible shard being called wisdom/prudence which is definitely cognitive and may be about hiding from danger hence Copper which hides allomantic pulses. The opposite may be Invention which involves searching for new things and hence bronze to hear allomantic pulses.

Lastly Whimsy feels like it should match aluminum since aluminum just messes with every magic system and hence could be the foil to Honor who may take things too seriously which could also equate with Duralumin which gives other metals great strength but also depletes them quicker. These got put in spiritual with mercy in part because we weren’t sure where these should go. 
 

What do you all think? 

 

 

Ambition is not necessarily taking things, it is about self growth, doing anything to improve. Devotion is not holding on to the past, it is being willing to keep a relationship, to the point where you enjoy these relationships.

As far as attaching Intents to metals in the metallic arts. I think the God Metals will have more of an effect on what the metals do in Allomancy.