Non-traditional Radiants

[jamesbondsmith]

The Order of Knights Radiant seem to have some stereotypes attached to them (e.g. Windrunners/Stonewards are soldiers, Skybreakers are police, Lightweavers are spies), so I thought it would be fun to think of non-traditional Radiants.

A Windrunner lawyer might be fun, using loopholes to protect people ('Oh, you've been accused of stealing soulcast grain to feed your starving family? Well, there is this one law from a hundred years ago that no-one bothered to repeal which prohibits theft of lavis bread, and seeing it isn't technically from a lavis plant...').

My D&D group has a College of Swords Bard (me, if you're interested) and an Arcane Trickster Rogue. Our Rogue often uses illusions to lure enemies into traps, and while my character is a general DPS in combat (although he is very flashy a la Oberyn Martell) I do lean into the creative side of Lightweavers, with setting up a bard supergroup in a tavern frequented by adventurers and pretending to be a monster's long-lost master in order to let us pass (which would have worked if my dice had cooperated). 

An Edgedancer might be the Rosharan equivalent of an investigative journalist. They will listen to the 'insignificant' people who have been ignored and expose corruption or major organised crime.

[+robardin]

6 hours ago, jamesbondsmith said:

A Windrunner lawyer might be fun, using loopholes to protect people ('Oh, you've been accused of stealing soulcast grain to feed your starving family? Well, there is this one law from a hundred years ago that no-one bothered to repeal which prohibits theft of lavis bread, and seeing it isn't technically from a lavis plant...').

My D&D group has a College of Swords Bard (me, if you're interested) and an Arcane Trickster Rogue. Our Rogue often uses illusions to lure enemies into traps, and while my character is a general DPS in combat (although he is very flashy a la Oberyn Martell) I do lean into the creative side of Lightweavers, with setting up a bard supergroup in a tavern frequented by adventurers and pretending to be a monster's long-lost master in order to let us pass (which would have worked if my dice had cooperated). 

An Edgedancer might be the Rosharan equivalent of an investigative journalist. They will listen to the 'insignificant' people who have been ignored and expose corruption or major organised crime.

Hahaha, I like that idea of a Windrunner lawyer.

I will defend those who cannot defend themselves! The courtoom went dark; and then Clarence Darrow burst afire with brilliant light.

William Jennings Bryan gasped. "You... You've inherited the wind!"

[Bejarden]

You might run into problems here

” I’ll protect even those I hate so long as it is right”

Defending a assaulter or murderer for a lighter sentence might not be the best idea

[Flyingbooks]

6 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

You might run into problems here

” I’ll protect even those I hate so long as it is right”

Defending a assaulter or murderer for a lighter sentence might not be the best idea

But then would defending them really be right? Also, the third oath isn't always necessarily about protecting even those you hate. It's about getting rid of identity-based caveats about who you'll protect, but doesn't mean that you need to protect everyone. Just as a Windrunner soldier can still fight their enemies to protect their friends and family, a Windrunner lawyer could prosecute a murderer to protect those who they would kill if let free.

[+mdross81]

As a real-life lawyer, and a Lightweaver per the quiz and my temperament, my mind goes straight to using illumination in the courtroom to recreate the scene and tell the story of what happened. All kinds of admissibility problems, but it’s fun to think about. 

[Bejarden]

Make the person your defending a squire for the best affect

so he could show it from his point of view

 

 

[+mdross81]

And I’ll bring in Renarin as co-counsel so he can show the jury the idealized version of the client 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

I like the public defense lawyer Windrunner idea as well. I'd say therapist Windrunner, but Kal already seems to be heading there!

I've liked the idea of a Skybreaker who also would be a good fit for Edgedancers, with a focus specifically on justice for the ignored and repressed. Their Ideal of Crusade would probably involve tackling injustice in a community.

Dustbringers have always struck me as good candidates for nuclear scientists. Engineers with a focus on channeling but also very precisely controlling and limiting destructive power. (Admittedly, based on the order blurb, this one might not actually be all that non-traditional, if we leave aside the fact Rosharans don't have nuclear physics worked out quite yet.)

An Edgedancer archeologist or something dedicated to digging out the truth of underrepresented stories throughout history could be fun, though this one's not that non-traditional either. (Also does align with Truthwatcher closely.)

Conspiracy theorist Truthwatcher is a fun idea.

Lightweaver psychologist! Examining themselves, and from there gaining an interest in the mind in general. (Feel like there should be some more odd, creative things you could do with the truths to get a more non-traditional Radiant, but my mind's blank.) Ooh, horror novelist Lightweaver using their understanding of the mind to make some really terrifying things?

Not sure for Elsecallers, they're generally open enough there might not really be enough of an archetype to break here.

Lawyer Willshaper could be a good one too. Also, ancap Willshaper? lol

Therapist Stoneward? Always being there when needed sounds like it could fit. (Alternatively, Stoneward-branded alarm clock ) Perhaps Stoneward congressional representative, trying to "be there" for broader metaphorical fights?

Bondsmiths are both so vague and so rare that I'm not really sure on this one. Feels like there should be some good ones, too tired to think of any. CEO?

 

On the negative end of things, a highly nationalistic Windrunner focused on "protecting the homeland" and ending up harming other places for the sake of this goal would be an interesting take on things (mainly because I get very tired of "this order bad, this order good" xD).

Edgedancers could potentially have some "paradox of tolerance" problems if taken too far (though delving into that one is probably too political).

Lightweaver psychologist could probably be a very terrifying person if they wanted, Lightweaving people's worst horrors.

Bondsmith's got the obvious flaw of lending itself well to dictatorships.

[Frustration]

Anarchist skybreaker.

[Nellac]

5 hours ago, Frustration said:

Anarchist skybreaker.

I'm not sure you could have an anarchist Skybreaker, they seemed too focused on maintaining some sort of order or code. You could have an extreme libertarian Skybreaker though. Something like "I will allow people to do as they like, so long as it doesn't hurt others." Although, at that point you're getting really close to Willshaper territory.

Willshaper politician that thinks the most freedom can be found through good legal systems

Edited February 24, 2021 by Nellac
Spelling

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, Nellac said:

I'm not sure you could have an anarchist Skybreaker, they seemed too focused on maintaining some sort of order or code. You could have an extreme libertarian Skybreaker though. Something like "I will allow people to do as they like, so long as it doesn't hurt others." Although, at that point you're getting really close to Willshaper territory.

Willshaper politician that thinks the most freedom can be found through good legal systems

I will prevent all governmmental abuse

^ easy stand in for third ideal

I will destroy all governments

^CRUSADE!

Edited February 24, 2021 by Frustration

[Nellac]

9 hours ago, Frustration said:

I will prevent all governmmental abuse

^ easy stand in for third ideal

I will destroy all governments

^CRUSADE!

Just because it can have a crusade doesn't mean it matches the order's ideals and attitudes. Let's not forget that you have to attract a spren to become a radiant. I don't see spren who usually love all things to do with laws, rules, and ethical codes choosing an anarchist to bond. They simply wouldn't have the right mindset. 

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Nellac said:

Just because it can have a crusade doesn't mean it matches the order's ideals and attitudes. Let's not forget that you have to attract a spren to become a radiant. I don't see spren who usually love all things to do with laws, rules, and ethical codes choosing an anarchist to bond. They simply wouldn't have the right mindset. 

Well depends on your definition of justice.

If you view all government as corrupt and irreparable, what do you do?

[Nellac]

14 hours ago, Frustration said:

Well depends on your definition of justice.

If you view all government as corrupt and irreparable, what do you do?

You don't become a Skybreaker.

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Nellac said:

You don't become a Skybreaker.

I belive you have a far too narrow view of what Skybreakers are.

[Bejarden]

It’s Perception

If the skybreaker believes something is Just it fits the Ideal

They follow an Ideal but it doesn’t have a government 

 

[Nellac]

1 hour ago, Bejardin1250 said:

It’s Perception

If the skybreaker believes something is Just it fits the Ideal

They follow an Ideal but it doesn’t have a government 

 

For the second ideal, you are correct, but you're ignoring the third ideal. The third ideal requires a Skybreaker to pick some sort of code of ethics to follow. I can't see anyone who says we need an external code of ethics being an anarchist. In my understanding, an anarchist would have a problem with any rules or any codes of ethics. They would see this as limiting and restrictive. You can't have someone who's goal is to destroy all rules and laws who also devotes their life to following a set of rules or moral code.

 

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

I belive you have a far too narrow view of what Skybreakers are.

I think you have too wide of one. 

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Nellac said:

For the second ideal, you are correct, but you're ignoring the third ideal. The third ideal requires a Skybreaker to pick some sort of code of ethics to follow. I can't see anyone who says we need an external code of ethics being an anarchist. In my understanding, an anarchist would have a problem with any rules or any codes of ethics. They would see this as limiting and restrictive. You can't have someone who's goal is to destroy all rules and laws who also devotes their life to following a set of rules or moral code.

A moral code is quite easily followed, you missunderstand Anarchy if you believe that any rules are to be destroyed. If someone says I refuse to drink alchohol, that is a rule they have set for themselves, that in no way shape or form contradicts anarchy.

[Bejarden]

Just now, Nellac said:

For the second ideal, you are correct, but you're ignoring the third ideal. The third ideal requires a Skybreaker to pick some sort of code of ethics to follow. I can't see anyone who says we need an external code of ethics being an anarchist. In my understanding, an anarchist would have a problem with any rules or any codes of ethics. They would see this as limiting and restrictive. You can't have someone who's goal is to destroy all rules and laws who also devotes their life to following a set of rules or moral code. 

That was what I was going for in my last line

Im sure you could have a skybreaker anarchist they only need someone who is also of the same thoughts as them to follow as an Ideal

If their moral code is different from yours then that doesn’t make his wrong in his eyes

Again it’s perception 

If he thinks murdering and stealing is the most just thing and someone agrees to him then that fits the Ideals

[Nellac]

Anarchy: 

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

A moral code is quite easily followed, you missunderstand Anarchy if you believe that any rules are to be destroyed. If someone says I refuse to drink alchohol, that is a rule they have set for themselves, that in no way shape or form contradicts anarchy.

Anarchy: a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.  

If there is a lack of, or a lack of recognition of, authority then there are no rules. A Skybreaker's entire third ideal is based upon swearing to something else as a higher authority than them.

3 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

That was what I was going for in my last line

Im sure you could have a skybreaker anarchist they only need someone who is also of the same thoughts as them to follow as an Ideal

If their moral code is different from yours then that doesn’t make his wrong in his eyes

Again it’s perception 

If he thinks murdering and stealing is the most just thing and someone agrees to him then that fits the Ideals

There's a difference between being an anarchist and swearing to follow an Anarchist. By swearing to follow someone you are allowing them to be your authority. That goes against the very nature of anarchy.

[Bejarden]

I guess yeah

Also a illogical elsecaller

Selfish windrunner

single minded truth watcher

and All the other oxymorons...

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Nellac said:

Anarchy: 

Anarchy: a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.  

If there is a lack of, or a lack of recognition of, authority then there are no rules. A Skybreaker's entire third ideal is based upon swearing to something else as a higher authority than them.

There's a difference between being an anarchist and swearing to follow an Anarchist. By swearing to follow someone you are allowing them to be your authority. That goes against the very nature of anarchy.

A personal code can be held to, in spite of, or even because of being opposed to all government.

I'm not sure why you are struggling with this.

[Nellac]

7 minutes ago, Frustration said:

A personal code can be held to, in spite of, or even because of being opposed to all government.

I'm not sure why you are struggling with this.

I think we have different understandings of Skybreakers. A Skybreaker isn't just following their personal code, they're following an external code. Whether that be a person, a specific set of rules, the law, or a certain religion. In all situations what a Skybreaker swears to in there third Ideal is something greater than themselves. The whole idea is that they know their own moral code is insufficient or corrupt so they rely on an external one.

 

[Frustration]

Just now, Nellac said:

I think we have different understandings of Skybreakers. A Skybreaker isn't just following their personal code, they're following an external code. Whether that be a person, a specific set of rules, the law, or a certain religion. In all situations what a Skybreaker swears to in there third Ideal is something greater than themselves. The whole idea is that they know their own moral code is insufficient or corrupt so they rely on an external one.

 

A Skybreaker can establish a set of rules like so

not to wear blue

not to eat fruit

not to eat soup with a fork.

etc

and swear to follow those rules.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Also Nale is not a reliable source, the modern Skybreakers would Horrify the Skybreakers of the past.

[Nellac]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

A Skybreaker can establish a set of rules like so

not to wear blue

not to eat fruit

not to eat soup with a fork.

etc

and swear to follow those rules.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Also Nale is not a reliable source, the modern Skybreakers would Horrify the Skybreakers of the past.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. I don't think skybreaker oaths that don't follow something external would work.