MCrockett

Lift's Legs

11 posts in this topic

I just finished the book and I loved it but admittedly, I feel a little devastated at what happened to Lift (her legs died when Moash ran his honor blade through them). Am I correct in assuming her legs cannot be healed from something like this?

If so, I guess I would like to read theories for how she will bounce back and possibly regain the ability to use her legs. Any thoughts?

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She healed them.  The injury has to be around long enough for it to become your new normal.  Lift only dealt with that injury for a few hours so she should be fine now.

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Oh that's good news. I knew she was feeling better and eating again, I guess I missed that her legs healed. Good to know.

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1 hour ago, Karger said:

She healed them.  The injury has to be around long enough for it to become your new normal.  Lift only dealt with that injury for a few hours so she should be fine now.

It was a Shardblade severing wound, and we saw from Bisig and Hobber that even several weeks or months later, those wounds can still be healed by a Surgebinder taking in Stormlight. And of course, the example of Lopen regrowing his physically severed arm of many years past might be even more impressive.

It's an external use of Progression (as from a Truthwatcher or Edgedancer healing someone else) that appears to be more severely limited by a window of time. For "self-healing" it's more a matter of self-image (as with Kaladin's slave brands, for so long).

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12 hours ago, robardin said:

It was a Shardblade severing wound, and we saw from Bisig and Hobber that even several weeks or months later, those wounds can still be healed by a Surgebinder taking in Stormlight. And of course, the example of Lopen regrowing his physically severed arm of many years past might be even more impressive.

It's an external use of Progression (as from a Truthwatcher or Edgedancer healing someone else) that appears to be more severely limited by a window of time. For "self-healing" it's more a matter of self-image (as with Kaladin's slave brands, for so long).

I'm pretty sure the external use of Progression is also a matter of self-image but self-healing (and higher oaths Progression) can more easily make the mind remember how the body used to be. Otherwise we would have 4 healing-ish magic that works by self image (Stormlight self heal, Bloodmaking, Forgery used to heal or repair and Boundsmith's stone healing) and one that doesn't which is weird, ok two that doesn't with Aon Ien but with Aon Ien you don't just tell the body "heal" or "you've never been hurt" like in the five other, you tell it how to heal so it makes sense that one would be different

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58 minutes ago, mathiau said:

I'm pretty sure the external use of Progression is also a matter of self-image but self-healing (and higher oaths Progression) can more easily make the mind remember how the body used to be. Otherwise we would have 4 healing-ish magic that works by self image (Stormlight self heal, Bloodmaking, Forgery used to heal or repair and Boundsmith's stone healing) and one that doesn't which is weird, ok two that doesn't with Aon Ien but with Aon Ien you don't just tell the body "heal" or "you've never been hurt" like in the five other, you tell it how to heal so it makes sense that one would be different

Perception is a huge part of Cosmere healing, which is why healing to one's self-image seems to be more "powerful" (can heal deeper or older hurts) than applying healing to someone else (which has an extra layer of another person's perceptions filtering the power).

This WoB from 2018 hinted as much, in drawing a distinction between a Surgebinder using Stormlight to heal themselves versus a Radiant using Progression to heal someone else, with there being a "double filter" effect for external healing:

Quote

Argent

Cosmere healing. Some magic systems have internal healing, such as Stormlight; external healing, such as AonDor. With internal ones, the perception of the magic user seems to matter a lot. Is that also a factor for the external ones?

Brandon Sanderson

So, there are various types of healing in the cosmere. We have things like Stormlight, where you get the Stormlight and it heals you, and that one is very, very influenced by your perception. How you view yourself, and what you view as being healed, has a huge influence on what actually happens to you. Externally, if someone heals someone else, like a Knight Radiant uses the power to heal someone, or an external force heals them, is it still filtered through perception? I'm gonna say both perceptions are important in that. They both are relevant.

Skyward Chicago signing (Nov. 16, 2018)

And then this more recent WoB confirms that the Surge of Progression, as applied to another person, is not the same nor as powerful as a Radiant "healing" themselves.

Quote

Questioner

A character in The Stormlight Archive who eventually was able to heal of a wound. An old wound, and normally healing old wounds, with Regrowth, can't be healed.

Brandon Sanderson

This is a limitation of healing someone else, versus healing yourself. Healing someone else is a weaker method, at least as it's understood by the Radiants currently. Figuring out how to make Regrowth fix older wounds is more difficult. When you are highly Invested in such a way that you have a spren bond, then you are able to kind of rewrite your Spiritual self to better match your Cognitive self. Basically, what your soul is better comes to match your perception of your soul and who you are, and who you want to be becomes more important. And because of that, the Radiant bond is able to heal things and even change physiology that normal Regrowth wouldn't be capable of doing.

Tor Instagram Livestream (Nov. 25, 2020)

The bit about being "highly Invested" is probably why a Feruchemist tapping a goldmind for healing can do as miraculous things as Stormlight healing or Progression (immediately regenerating skin, body parts, etc.). So long as there is enough Investiture in the metalmind.

 

Edited by robardin
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2 hours ago, mathiau said:

I'm pretty sure the external use of Progression is also a matter of self-image but self-healing (and higher oaths Progression) can more easily make the mind remember how the body used to be. Otherwise we would have 4 healing-ish magic that works by self image (Stormlight self heal, Bloodmaking, Forgery used to heal or repair and Boundsmith's stone healing) and one that doesn't which is weird, ok two that doesn't with Aon Ien but with Aon Ien you don't just tell the body "heal" or "you've never been hurt" like in the five other, you tell it how to heal so it makes sense that one would be different

I'm not sure Resealing(Flesh Forgery) is based on a person's self image. It's more similar to Aon Ien, a more manual process where whoever is doing the healing needs to specify to the magic what to heal. Resealers have to study the body in depth much like a doctor so that they know how each individual part of the body is supposed to function so that they can Forge it to be whole where it is damaged. There could be things specific to the person they're working on, everyone has their quirks. But the process doesn't involve the subjects Spiritual ideal self to determine how the body should be healed, it's at the direction of the Resealer. 

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23 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

I'm not sure Resealing(Flesh Forgery) is based on a person's self image. It's more similar to Aon Ien, a more manual process where whoever is doing the healing needs to specify to the magic what to heal. Resealers have to study the body in depth much like a doctor so that they know how each individual part of the body is supposed to function so that they can Forge it to be whole where it is damaged. There could be things specific to the person they're working on, everyone has their quirks. But the process doesn't involve the subjects Spiritual ideal self to determine how the body should be healed, it's at the direction of the Resealer. 

Resealing is changing the past of the person so the wounds didn't happen/ was less serious

Say it's based on the self image was indeed a mistake but it's still related. When Shai stamp a stained-glass window so it had never been broken the window accept it more strongly than normal because it still saw itself as not broken

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8 hours ago, mathiau said:

Resealing is changing the past of the person so the wounds didn't happen/ was less serious

Say it's based on the self image was indeed a mistake but it's still related. When Shai stamp a stained-glass window so it had never been broken the window accept it more strongly than normal because it still saw itself as not broken

Given the fact that if you do Resealing wrong the person can die leads me to believe it isn't precisely using the Spiritual Ideal like that. Unfortunately, there really isn't a lot of knowledge to be had on the topic. It's the one area of Forgery that Shai didn't know much about and we have exactly one WoB on it that is essentially a RAFO. 

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If self-image is necessary for healing, I wonder if Lift will be able to heal from a wound that affects her ability to use her legs. It seems like Sanderson spent a lot of time describing how dissimilar she is from other Edgedancers. She's clumsy on her feet and more graceful on her knees paddling with her hands. She also doesn't like her new height, or the other changes that come with her adolescence. I wonder if, much like Kaladin's forehead tattoos, this wound will persist until she experiences more character growth and comes to terms with growing up.

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13 minutes ago, stormwallsurfer said:

If self-image is necessary for healing, I wonder if Lift will be able to heal from a wound that affects her ability to use her legs. It seems like Sanderson spent a lot of time describing how dissimilar she is from other Edgedancers. She's clumsy on her feet and more graceful on her knees paddling with her hands. She also doesn't like her new height, or the other changes that come with her adolescence. I wonder if, much like Kaladin's forehead tattoos, this wound will persist until she experiences more character growth and comes to terms with growing up.

I doubt it'll happen, for the same reason a Radiant imagining themself young doesn't stop them from ageing

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