Sja Anat, Deadeyes, Enlightening

[Waffles]

Spren generally seem unwilling to change however it seems like the enlightening of mistspren were voluntary and recent (post recreance)

Deadeyes are also recent and consequential

It seems like one of the ways a deadeyes ( or liespren, as Jasnah referred to them) could be restored is by changing them from a paradox into something different

Is the reason that Sja Anat can now enlighten intelligent spren because deadeyes are uniquely vulnerable or open to such changes? 

 

[MCrockett]

I may be wrong but I believe Sja Anat can "enlighten" all types of spren (lesser and true spren). I think that would include deadeyes as well but I don't remember if that happened...?

[Flyingbooks]

6 hours ago, Waffles said:

Is the reason that Sja Anat can now enlighten intelligent spren because deadeyes are uniquely vulnerable or open to such changes? 

Hmmm... that reminds me that the one uncorrupted mistspren that we've met has a very different naming style from the corrupted mistspren. We know that deadeyes can become semi-aware/sentient, so perhaps Enlightened spren were deadeyes who were made semi-aware like Mayalaran and Sja-anat was able to patch up their "missing pieces" with Odium's Investiture to make them fully sentient again. Since nobody heard of deadeyes acting anything like Mayalaran before, if this is true, then Sja-anat would probably first make a deadeye as aware as she could without Enlightening them, then offering to Enlighten them once they're able to respond and potentially agree to her offer. This wiould likely take a long time, which explains why there are so few Enlightened-spren Truthwatchers.

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Oversleep

Will there be Enlightened spren of other Radiant Orders than Truthwatchers, and why does Sja-anat like Truthwatchers so much?

Brandon Sanderson

The reason Sja-anat likes Truthwatcher spren the most is because they are the most willing. And she considers what she's doing offering Enlightenment, not corrupting. And she considers their willingness to be a part of this. Outside observers might consider her methods less... involving less volition on the parts of some of the spren that she touches. They might argue with her on that point. In this case, as it comes with the two Truthwatcher spren that you see in the books, they both went to what they are willingly. Fully willingly to become what they are. They are, you might say, participants in her plans. So that's why she wants them.

This WoB seems to back up this theory - notice that it says "less volition" rather than full volition or no volition at all, which would fit with the limited sentience demonstrated by deadeyes. 

[Waffles]

that is a very keen reading of the WoB, that definitely supports a compromised spren and supports the idea that the deadeyed state may be what compromises them

Edited February 17, 2021 by Waffles

[mathiau]

Glys doesn't remember the moment he was Enlightened well while Tumi seems to do, maybe Glys was a Deadeye and seeing the Enlightenment still allowed the spren to work perfectly as a Radiant spren convinced other Mistsprens to try?

On 17/02/2021 at 5:07 AM, Flyingbooks said:

Hmmm... that reminds me that the one uncorrupted mistspren that we've met has a very different naming style from the corrupted mistspren.

Dreaming-though-Awake probably just comes from another Mistspren nation

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We know that deadeyes can become semi-aware/sentient, so perhaps Enlightened spren were deadeyes who were made semi-aware like Mayalaran and Sja-anat was able to patch up their "missing pieces" with Odium's Investiture to make them fully sentient again. Since nobody heard of deadeyes acting anything like Mayalaran before, if this is true, then Sja-anat would probably first make a deadeye as aware as she could without Enlightening them, then offering to Enlighten them once they're able to respond and potentially agree to her offer. This wiould likely take a long time, which explains why there are so few Enlightened-spren Truthwatchers.

If Sja can make windsprens think I don't see why she couldn't make Deadeyes think clearly

Edited February 18, 2021 by mathiau

[Waffles]

I sort of wonder if the reason Testament was brought into frame (at least from the narrative perspective) would be for Sja Anat to enlighten her onscreen and to give Shallan access to odiums powers. In theory this would give Shallan access both voidbinding (odium illumination?) and surgebinding and possibly a compound effect.

[Frustration]

6 hours ago, Waffles said:

I sort of wonder if the reason Testament was brought into frame (at least from the narrative perspective) would be for Sja Anat to enlighten her onscreen and to give Shallan access to odiums powers. In theory this would give Shallan access both voidbinding (odium illumination?) and surgebinding and possibly a compound effect.

It would be transformation, I'm about 99% certain that they get the counter clockwise void.

[mathiau]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It would be transformation,

Which has been theorised to be the Void Sja uses to Enlighten Sprens. It would be quite funny if it allowed Shallan to transform Sja into a Spren of Honour/Cultivation

Also, I think Brandon talked about another type of spren than Mistsprens that could be convinced to be Enlightened and I can't remember if it was Cryptics or Reachers, does someone remember

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I'm about 99% certain that they get the counter clockwise void.

I'm 99% certain Renarin has both Voids

[Halyo_Alex]

5 hours ago, mathiau said:

I'm 99% certain Renarin has both Voids

Why's that? I haven't seen nearly any evidence for a fourth power from Renarin, just the Void of "Prediction" mixed with/replacing Illumination (maybe warbinding idk) and Progression.

[mathiau]

14 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Why's that? I haven't seen nearly any evidence for a fourth power from Renarin, just the Void of "Prediction" mixed with/replacing Illumination (maybe warbinding idk) and Progression.

Powers Renarin has shown :

Summoning light with a Malatium like temporal side effect (=Void of Illumination)

Healing with a Perfected self temporal side effect (=Void of Progression)

Visions (could be a second effect of the Void of Illumination, a second effect of the Void of Progression (note that the Surge of Progression is actually two very different powers) or an hybrid Void)

No need for him Surge binding, he's just Voidbinding

Edited February 19, 2021 by mathiau

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, mathiau said:

Healing with a Perfected self temporal side effect (=Void of Progression)

This, I doubt. I think this might be either just Progression's normal temporal effects, or a "resonance" (not the kind that usually is associated with the term) between "Prediction" and Progression.

Personal hypothesis on what the Void of Progression does is create (grow/cultivate) Midnight Essence to be turned into constructs/fake spren/whatever you wanna call them.

[Waffles]

The running theory then is the unmade exhibit a single voidbinding power and can share that power with spren?

edit: There are also common powers related to being a radiant, Renarin still hasnt shown a shardblade or plate right ( and its not clear they'd function the same)? Maybe voidbinders get some alternate perks instead.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Waffles

[mathiau]

6 minutes ago, Waffles said:

The running theory then is the unmade exhibit a single voidbinding power and can share that power with spren?

If we go that way there's no way to explain Yelig-Nar

[Waffles]

I'm not clear on that either. Many of the unmade would be difficult to explain in a satisfying way. Its also possible that odium manifests some surges very differently than honor/cultivation

[Kyn]

2 hours ago, Waffles said:

edit: There are also common powers related to being a radiant, Renarin still hasnt shown a shardblade or plate right ( and its not clear they'd function the same)? Maybe voidbinders get some alternate perks instead.

Renarin literally has his Shardblade out when he runs into his brother at the end of Oathbringer. He was also going up the hill specifically to open the Oathgate, so it’s widely known he has a blade, and it at least functions similarly to a normal Radiant Blade. However, I don’t recall seeing Renarin with Shardplate yet. Does he get it after this?

Oathbringer ch. 120 (both; it’s a loooong chapter):

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Renarin! He didn’t have Plate. How—

The thunderclast’s palm crashed down on Renarin, smashing him. Adolin screamed, but his brother’s Shardblade cut up through the palm, then separated the hand from the wrist.

[mathiau]

7 minutes ago, Kyn said:

Renarin literally has his Shardblade out when he runs into his brother at the end of Oathbringer. He was also going up the hill specifically to open the Oathgate, so it’s widely known he has a blade, and it at least functions similarly to a normal Radiant Blade. However, I don’t recall seeing Renarin with Shardplate yet. Does he get it after this?

Oathbringer ch. 120 (both; it’s a loooong chapter):

For a small chapter with Renarin's Sharblade, see chapter 10, in Adolin's part near the end

I don't think Renarin has a plate yet

3 hours ago, Waffles said:

The running theory then is the unmade exhibit a single voidbinding power and can share that power with spren?

edit: There are also common powers related to being a radiant, Renarin still hasnt shown a shardblade or plate right ( and its not clear they'd function the same)? Maybe voidbinders get some alternate perks instead.

Official art from the WoK leatherbound kickstarter

Spoiler

Renarin has a (significantly more yellow) Shardplate in it. In universe he doesn't have one yet but I doubt Brandon would have let them print this if Voidbinders couldn't have plates

[LewsTherinTelescope]

3 hours ago, mathiau said:

but I doubt Brandon would have let them print this if Voidbinders couldn't have plates

Otoh, the Bondsmith art has a Shardblade, which we know Bondsmiths don't get... (Also, canon Plate and Blade are plain grey and the only color is the glow at the seams, so it's not like he forces the art to be particularly accurate.)

[Bejarden]

44 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Otoh, the Bondsmith art has a Shardblade, which we know Bondsmiths don't get... (Also, canon Plate and Blade are plain grey and the only color is the glow at the seams, so it's not like he forces the art to be particularly accurate.)

Doesn’t dalinar summon the stormafather as a Shardblade? Might be wrong 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

9 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Doesn’t dalinar summon the stormafather as a Shardblade? Might be wrong 

He summons the Stormfather as something, but exactly what happened there isn't super clear afaik (and it caused the Stormfather a lot of pain, whatever it was, so I don't think that's being done again anytime soon). 

[Draigwyrdd]

I always read the Stormfather saying Dalinar won't have shards as "I'm not doing that" rather than "I can't do that". Which ... I mean, kind of fits his personality. The Sibling I think might not be able to do it, since they are Urithiru in presumably the same way that they would be a blade. But perhaps the Nightwatcher can and does become a blade for her Bondsmith. Who knows?

[LewsTherinTelescope]

12 hours ago, Draigwyrdd said:

I always read the Stormfather saying Dalinar won't have shards as "I'm not doing that" rather than "I can't do that". Which ... I mean, kind of fits his personality. The Sibling I think might not be able to do it, since they are Urithiru in presumably the same way that they would be a blade. But perhaps the Nightwatcher can and does become a blade for her Bondsmith. Who knows?

 

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Questioner

And there's one last question if I may: I'm really into swords and such. I couldn't help but notice king Elhokar's Blade. It's just... All the others are ornamented, and they may have some glyphs, but it is the only one where it is explicitly it is told that there are ten fundamental glyphs on it which are the glyphs of the orders. I read some of the chapters from Dalinar from Unfettered II, and I know how he got it for Elhokar. Is there also some more backstory to this Blade?

Brandon Sanderson

There's a backstory to every Blade and every one of them is special, that's the problem. But I will be exploring the origins of some of the Blades. Eventually. Not a ton, but a little bit.

Questioner

As it is ornamented in such a way... Could it be related to a Bondsmith?

Brandon Sanderson

Bondsmiths didn't have Blades.

Questioner

All of them? It's just... Maybe it was just the Stormfather...

Brandon Sanderson

No. That's a really good guess. Really good guess. I'm gonna RAFO Bondsmiths because you gonna learn a lot about them in the next book because it's the Bondsmith's book. That's a really good theory, but it's not true. 

Questioner

But maybe there is at least something to it.

Brandon Sanderson

But there's a reason to it, why it has all the 10 orders.

Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)

[mathiau]

On 21/02/2021 at 2:06 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

(Also, canon Plate and Blade are plain grey and the only color is the glow at the seams, so it's not like he forces the art to be particularly accurate.)

Fair point

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Otoh, the Bondsmith art has a Shardblade, which we know Bondsmiths don't get...

That on the other hand is far too big of a mistake not to be intensional. That girl bounded a Enlightened Gloryspren