Nightwatcher's Boon Revisited

[Vessel of Theory]

Hey all, Shard of Theory back with another hopefully awesome theory. I was thinking about Oathbringer, young Dalinar, and the Nightwatcher's(Cultivation's) boon to him, and this theory hit me like Vin hitting Straff at the end of Well of Ascension.

The Nightwatcher offered Dalinar Nightblood, which he declined. The first time we see Nightblood in Roshar is in the hands of Nale, the at least partially insane Herald and leader of the Skybreakers. Nale, however, gives Nightblood to Szeth.

 

We've all wondered where Nale got Nightblood - and I think we've all kind of assumed he picked it off a random "criminal's" body. But what if it's actually a boon from the Nightwatcher? I can see a crazy Herald going to a piece of God and asking to be able to destroy evil - isn't that what Nale wants? To end "evil" permanently?

It's possible this has already been posted, or is common knowledge to all but me, but I haven't seen it before and so I wanted to share it with y'all. What do you think about Nale getting a boon from the Nightwatcher? Would he, and if so, what would he have asked for(or rather, how would he have worded it)? What do you think his curse is?

[Chinkoln]

This... actually makes sense. When Vasher/Zahel came to Roshar, he must have traveled through the perpendicularity. Cultivation might not have wanted Nightblood to get through, so she took it when he passed through her perpendicularly. Then, Nale, a crazy Herald, comes to her and asks for a way to end evil. She gives him Nightblood.

[AquaRegia]

Nale doesn't strike me as someone who cares about good vs evil.  His only ideal is LAW over CHAOS.  He directly states to Szeth his belief that humans (himself included) are incapable of judging what is "good" or "right", which is why following external law is the only correct path to action.  My impression is that not only would he never ask for a way to "end evil", he would be unwilling to accept any definition of evil.  He may be crazy, but he's CONSISTENT.

That said, I do think it makes sense in terms of Nightbood's path - from Nalthis to Szeth - for Cultivation to be involved somehow.

[Vessel of Theory]

12 minutes ago, AquaRegia said:

Nale doesn't strike me as someone who cares about good vs evil.  His only ideal is LAW over CHAOS.  He directly states to Szeth his belief that humans (himself included) are incapable of judging what is "good" or "right", which is why following external law is the only correct path to action.  My impression is that not only would he never ask for a way to "end evil", he would be unwilling to accept any definition of evil.  He may be crazy, but he's CONSISTENT.

That said, I do think it makes sense in terms of Nightbood's path - from Nalthis to Szeth - for Cultivation to be involved somehow.

I agree and understand most of this, but I do want to contest one thing - Nale's perceptions of "good" and "evil".

 

He has sworn the fifth Ideal of the Skybreakers: "I am the law". IMO, he believes some things are "right" and others "wrong", not necessarily evil. I think he believes that while he is incapable of discerning good from evil, he believes that there is some greater power which can. 

Or, even better: He asks the Nightwatcher to be able to destroy evil, gets Nightblood, and then realizes that human perception is flawed and none are without guilt. This could in turn lead to his cynical attitude of "uphold the laws because it's all we can do".

[Forms of mind]

Azure was looking for Nightblood because if a crime. I think Nightblood was in witness protection. Which is why he was at the valley. Both are hiding on roshar so they split up to hide. 

[Vessel of Theory]

Not gonna argue against that, I have no clue

What do you think about the theory, though?

[Bejarden]

On 2/10/2021 at 7:23 PM, Forms of mind said:

Azure was looking for Nightblood because if a crime. I think Nightblood was in witness protection. Which is why he was at the valley. Both are hiding on roshar so they split up to hide. 

It seems like vasher can handle himself even with nightblood I don’t really see him giving the most powerful weapon in the cosmere to a random shard in the forest.
I see it as:

vasher leaves nalthis for easy investiture then steals nightblood from someone

then wanders into-cultivation who steals nightblood

then cultivation gave it to nale when he asked for a weapon that ‘knows justice’ 

 And b/c of Intent and nales backward meaning of justice he gets a weapon that has no knowledge of what justice is

 

[Forms of mind]

35 minutes ago, Vessel of Theory said:

Not gonna argue against that, I have no clue

What do you think about the theory, though?

I like the idea but i do not think nale went out to seek cultivation. Cultivation gave nale the blade because she was playing a game. I remember in the shardcast youtube episode someone said that there was an opinion that cultivation was playing a deeper game. Her actions were like roots under the surface. I do like your theory but i don't know why Nale would seek her out. 

 

[Vessel of Theory]

27 minutes ago, Forms of mind said:

I like the idea but i do not think nale went out to seek cultivation. Cultivation gave nale the blade because she was playing a game. I remember in the shardcast youtube episode someone said that there was an opinion that cultivation was playing a deeper game. Her actions were like roots under the surface. I do like your theory but i don't know why Nale would seek her out. 

 

I agree that it's beyond most to predict the motives of a Cosmere god

I think that Nale at some point was so broken that, possibly after advice from Ishar, went to the Nightwatcher(not Cultivation) and asked for some kind of ability to mete "justice". I think that Nightblood changed his beliefs and the way he sees the world, resulting in him giving it away to Szeth and gaining new perceptions.

[jamesbondsmith]

I can see him asking for some item that allows him to externally adjudicate good/evil, or perhaps just accepting without a bargain a sword which was designed to destroy evil under the impression that command was way less buggy than Nightblood ended up being.

Edited March 10, 2021 by jamesbondsmith

[Bejarden]

I wonder what Nales curse would be...

Maybe that’s why he’s insane he ask for something that could give judgment and lost all his own