Who would win?

[Anarchy]

Please choose who you think would win in a fight.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Anarchy

[Anarchy]

Ok the poll wasn’t working so for now just comment who you think would win gold compounder or a seer (atium misting).

[Frustration]

Gold, no contest

[Anarchy]

Just now, Frustration said:

Gold, no contest

Frustration but the seer would be able to move nimbly enough to steal/take off their metalminds.

[Frustration]

Just now, Anarchy said:

Frustration but the seer would be able to move nimbly enough to steal/take off their metalminds.

eh, movemnet is not given by Atium, they would still have the dexterity of a human, and on top of that, Atium burns far faster than gold, assuming they have equal amounts of metal then simply outlasting them is all you have to do.

[Chasmgoat]

sorry to be that one goat...

You made this topic twice, you can hide the first one.
Also, Try not to double post. That is where you post twice in a row. Thanks!

also, I agree with Frustration

[Aspiring Writer]

Gold-Compounder. Gold will only be needed to be used when he needs to heal while atium will need to be constantly burned to keep himself safe, and once it runs out, the gold-compounder will grapple him and suffocate him.

[Chinkoln]

Let's make the assumptions that 

1. They have unequal amounts of metals, but they have the same burn time.

2. They are in an open field with no places to hide or run.

3. The only weapons they have are their hands.

@Anarchy If you want to change these points, then just let me know.

A gold compounder would beat a seer.

They have the same burn time, but the gold compounded doesn't need to constantly burn. Within a few seconds, the gold will have more metals remaining than a seer. Eventually, the seer will run out and be exposed to attacks that don't need to be careful.

This is similar to the scene where Dalinar is fighting at Rathalas for the first time. He comments about how Shardplate is better than having a Shardblade. A Shardblade is amazingly powerful and can kill with one cut, but if they get hit by anything they are still dead. A Shardblade can let you kill people with one punch and you get protection from almost all weapons. 

The gold compounder is Shardplate and a seer is a Shardblade.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Chinkoln

[MGershone]

(Time to be the one guy who disagrees with everyone)

A seer has a chance at winning, because a gold compounder's only huge benefit is that he can heal. An atium misting has a huge combat advantage because of their allomancy. Although it's true that he can't permanently hurt his opponent, he can wear him down (still assuming equivalent burn times, like Chinkoln said).

In Alloy of Law it is clearly implied that gold compounding doesn't improve stamina.

[Quantus]

2 hours ago, MGershone said:

(Time to be the one guy who disagrees with everyone)

A seer has a chance at winning, because a gold compounder's only huge benefit is that he can heal. An atium misting has a huge combat advantage because of their allomancy. Although it's true that he can't permanently hurt his opponent, he can wear him down (still assuming equivalent burn times, like Chinkoln said).

In Alloy of Law it is clearly implied that gold compounding doesn't improve stamina.

But Atium doesnt improve stamina either, so that's cant be used as a deciding factor.  At the end of the day, Atium itself doesnt offer any actual advantage that would be helpful in taking a Gold Compounder down.  On the other hand, Gold doesnt offer anything specific to take down the Seer (while burning), either.  So with everything but the powers being equal (assuming equal physical capabilities, infinite metal supplies, etc), I think it's a stalemate broken only by blind luck.  On average, the Atium keeps the Compounder from getting a lucky shot in, and the Compounding Health prevents all the combat benefit of Atium from actually mattering in any given encounter.  And either of them can be taken down by a large enough bomb.  Or Aluminum.  

[Chinkoln]

35 minutes ago, Quantus said:

But Atium doesnt improve stamina either, so that's cant be used as a deciding factor.  At the end of the day, Atium itself doesnt offer any actual advantage that would be helpful in taking a Gold Compounder down.  On the other hand, Gold doesnt offer anything specific to take down the Seer (while burning), either.  So with everything but the powers being equal (assuming equal physical capabilities, infinite metal supplies, etc), I think it's a stalemate broken only by blind luck.  On average, the Atium keeps the Compounder from getting a lucky shot in, and the Compounding Health prevents all the combat benefit of Atium from actually mattering in any given encounter.  And either of them can be taken down by a large enough bomb.  Or Aluminum.  

After some thought, it would come down to skill and temperaments. The seer has to really hope that the compounder will continually use their metals, and not only burn when the seer is close. The seer might recognize that they don't need to burn their metal constantly, only when they are about to attack. It comes down to the individual. How much they have practiced, if they can take a risk, and the luck of going against someone who doesn't properly fight.

[MGershone]

8 hours ago, Quantus said:

But Atium doesnt improve stamina either, so that's cant be used as a deciding factor.  At the end of the day, Atium itself doesnt offer any actual advantage that would be helpful in taking a Gold Compounder down.  On the other hand, Gold doesnt offer anything specific to take down the Seer (while burning), either.  So with everything but the powers being equal (assuming equal physical capabilities, infinite metal supplies, etc), I think it's a stalemate broken only by blind luck.  On average, the Atium keeps the Compounder from getting a lucky shot in, and the Compounding Health prevents all the combat benefit of Atium from actually mattering in any given encounter.  And either of them can be taken down by a large enough bomb.  Or Aluminum.  

But with Atium, a Seer could conserve his energy by making the exact right strike in every exchange.

[Quantus]

13 hours ago, MGershone said:

But with Atium, a Seer could conserve his energy by making the exact right strike in every exchange.

And the Gold Compounder would yawn and heal.  All the insight in the world wont grant the Seer an actual means of making damage stick to the gold compounder, who can fill, swallow, and even surgically implant enough Gold throughout their body that they can even regenerate lost limbs or their head. 

On the other hand, either could be taken down with an aluminum bullet or throwing knife, no actual powers required.   

[Chinkoln]

1 minute ago, Quantus said:

On the other hand, either could be taken down with an aluminum bullet or throwing knife, no actual powers required.   

Yes, but we are saying that they don't have those. If they both had access to a gun with an aluminum bullet, then the seer would win.But we want to know which is more powerful, not which is better at shooting people.

[Quantus]

1 minute ago, Chinkoln said:

Yes, but we are saying that they don't have those. If they both had access to a gun with an aluminum bullet, then the seer would win.But we want to know which is more powerful, not which is better at shooting people.

Right, and what Im saying is that I dont think that either Power gives one or the other a definitive advantage.  It will come down to the individual strengths of the People involved (not just an overwhelming magic power) or it will stalemate. Or some other wild card (like aluminum) will need to come into the equation (as we saw with Miles Hundredlives).

[Chinkoln]

35 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Right, and what Im saying is that I dont think that either Power gives one or the other a definitive advantage.  It will come down to the individual strengths of the People involved (not just an overwhelming magic power) or it will stalemate. Or some other wild card (like aluminum) will need to come into the equation (as we saw with Miles Hundredlives).

Ya, this is the conclusion I came to earlier.

22 hours ago, Chinkoln said:

After some thought, it would come down to skill and temperaments. The seer has to really hope that the compounder will continually use their metals, and not only burn when the seer is close. The seer might recognize that they don't need to burn their metal constantly, only when they are about to attack. It comes down to the individual. How much they have practiced, if they can take a risk, and the luck of going against someone who doesn't properly fight.

 

[Quantus]

13 minutes ago, Chinkoln said:

Ya, this is the conclusion I came to earlier.

 

Right, I know, you were replying to my statement when you did so.  I wasnt trying to rehash that part again, jus responding to @MGershone's post.  

[Chinkoln]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Right, I know, you were replying to my statement when you did so.  I wasnt trying to rehash that part again, jus responding to @MGershone's post.  

Oh ya, I hadn't noticed that. I can be unobservant at times.

[Quantus]

8 minutes ago, Chinkoln said:

Oh ya, I hadn't noticed that. I can be unobservant at times.

Been there my friend, happens to me more often than not. Recently too  :-)

[+robardin]

Well, we've seen examples of both. Yomen was an the Seer, and Miles "Hundredlives" Dagouter a gold compounder. Which of the two would you want to face down? Or, if they had a simultaneous mutual desire to murder one another, who would walk away?

Obviously you'd not want to face either one, but atium is rare, expensive, and burns quickly. If you have any way of simply forcing Yomen to burn all his atium with jab or ranged attacks, you'd reduce the problem to just "can I take down Yomen?" And he himself noted he didn't find his ability all that useful. "How often does one have both atium and the desire to use it up in a few heartbeats?"

Now, it proved far more useful at Elend's Last Stand with his Band of Seers burning up the entire kandra Trust - there, we saw that even unpracticed Seers could take down koloss. With enough atium. Which they had lots and lots of. So I guess it's also a question of how much atium the Seer in question has access to: somewhere in between the normal "a few minutes at most" accessible to Allomancers of the Final Empire (versus "none at all" to Allomancers after the Catacendre, unless you begged some off of Marsh?), or "bags and bags of beads that you have to choke down they're so many!"

Miles Hundredlives, now... That's a guy who can blow up dynamite held in his hands, and routinely carried it around for just that purpose. By extension, he could simply blow up enough explosives, a large shrapnel bomb, to take out everyone in a hundred foot radius, and walk away in some shredded clothing. So unless Yomen "saw that coming" by burning atium early enough, I don't see him being able to escape the blast radius.

Edited February 22, 2021 by robardin

[Parzival]

I think it comes down to this, the seer cannot kill the gold compounder. The gold compounder can kill the seer. Gold coumpounder wins.

Now if they both get assets like aluminum it could be a different story, but definitely bare hands is gold compounder for the win, not even taking into account the fact that the seer would run out of metal so quick.

On 2/8/2021 at 6:14 AM, MGershone said:

(Time to be the one guy who disagrees with everyone)

A seer has a chance at winning, because a gold compounder's only huge benefit is that he can heal. An atium misting has a huge combat advantage because of their allomancy. Although it's true that he can't permanently hurt his opponent, he can wear him down (still assuming equivalent burn times, like Chinkoln said).

In Alloy of Law it is clearly implied that gold compounding doesn't improve stamina.

Pretty sure it does imply that, Miles says he doesn't get worn down and tired very much, and it would instantly heal torn muscles and stuff from working out and exercise so it wouldn't give infinite stamina but it would increase it for sure.

[Chinkoln]

1 minute ago, Parzival said:

I think it comes down to this, the seer cannot kill the gold compounder. The gold compounder can kill the seer. Gold coumpounder wins.

What if the seer removes the “immortality” aspect from the gold compounder? The seer jumps around and rips the metal minds off, and now this compounder is just a guy who can use gold.

[Parzival]

11 minutes ago, Chinkoln said:

What if the seer removes the “immortality” aspect from the gold compounder? The seer jumps around and rips the metal minds off, and now this compounder is just a guy who can use gold.

How would they know where the metal minds are? and if they get that close the god dcompounder will be hitting and hurting them, seers don't get increases speed or agility. Also, odds are the gold compounder will have at least some gold minds that are imbedded in them like a spike so it can't be pushed and then it would be impossible for the seer to get it without the gold compounder being able to start to grapple them and remove the seer's advantage because they're in so close

Also, as a total side note, how do you get the signature thing under all your posts? I'm also ravenclaw and a windrunner or stoneward and member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Parzival

[Chinkoln]

12 minutes ago, Parzival said:

How would they know where the metal minds are? and if they get that close the god dcompounder will be hitting and hurting them, seers don't get increases speed or agility. Also, odds are the gold compounder will have at least some gold minds that are imbedded in them like a spike so it can't be pushed and then it would be impossible for the seer to get it without the gold compounder being able to start to grapple them and remove the seer's advantage because they're in so close

Also, as a total side note, how do you get the signature thing under all your posts? I'm also ravenclaw and a windrunner or stoneward and member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints.

The seer can see the future, so they won’t get injured while attacking. It isn’t hard to see big metal stuff on someone, and there are multiple instances of people ripping out spikes with relative ease. Also, slight side note, the seer can’t push on metals anyway, but it is possible for allomancers to push on embedded metals.

Click on your name, click on Account Settings. Once in Account Settings go down to the bottom-most option that is Signature. Type something there and press save!

[Parzival]

Just now, Chinkoln said:

The seer can see the future, so they won’t get injured while attacking. It isn’t hard to see big metal stuff on someone, and there are multiple instances of people ripping out spikes with relative ease. Also, slight side note, the seer can’t push on metals anyway, but it is possible for allomancers to push on embedded metals.

Click on your name, click on Account Settings. Once in Account Settings go down to the bottom-most option that is Signature. Type something there and press save!

Just cause you can see the future doesn't mean you won't get injured. In the first few chapters of steelheart they kill a precognitive epic by making it impossible for him to have a way out. And the closer they are the less the seer can see movement form atium shadows and the harder it is to not get hit at all. Well how would you pull off something like a metal bracer from someones arm and not get hit or grabbed? I don't think the seer could get every metalmind off without getting hit, worn down, or grabbed. I just meant they would put metalminds in themselves to prevent that, not for this specific example.

Thanks so much! Signature lign here I come!