discuss The Expanse of the Broken Sky

[mathiau]

A few years ago, Brandon released this map of Roshar's Shadesmare
 

Spoiler

Each of the expanses are planet that you can walk to in Shadesmare, the Expanse of the Vapors is confirmed to be Scadrial and the Expanse of the Density us confirmed to be Sel; the Expanse hidden before the "Shadesmar" text is known as the Expanse of Vibrance and is nearly confirmed to be Nalthis.

Until RoW we didn't have any clue on what planet could be the Expanse of the Broken Sky nor why it could be called that way, Scadrial is called the Expanse of the Vapours because its Shadesmare is misty, Sel is called the Expanse of Density because it's Shadesmare is made of blazing plasma and with Nalthis' emphasis on coulour its Shadesmare is bound to be colourful, what could make the sky of a planet's Shadesmare broken? You've probably already realized where I was going with all that: I think the Expanse of the Broken Sky is Threnody, and the reason  it's called that way is that the wound in the Spiritual Realm Harmony talked about is visible from Shadesmare.

[+Bzhydack]

54 minutes ago, mathiau said:

A few years ago, Brandon released this map of Roshar's Shadesmare
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Each of the expanses are planet that you can walk to in Shadesmare, the Expanse of the Vapors is confirmed to be Scadrial and the Expanse of the Density us confirmed to be Sel; the Expanse hidden before the "Shadesmar" text is known as the Expanse of Vibrance and is nearly confirmed to be Nalthis.

Until RoW we didn't have any clue on what planet could be the Expanse of the Broken Sky nor why it could be called that way, Scadrial is called the Expanse of the Vapours because its Shadesmare is misty, Sel is called the Expanse of Density because it's Shadesmare is made of blazing plasma and with Nalthis' emphasis on coulour its Shadesmare is bound to be colourful, what could make the sky of a planet's Shadesmare broken? You've probably already realized where I was going with all that: I think the Expanse of the Broken Sky is Threnody, and the reason  it's called that way is that the wound in the Spiritual Realm Harmony talked about is visible from Shadesmare.

Could also be Ashyn, planet literaly in fire and broken. Who knows how it looks in Cognitive, but we know is very difficult to reach this planet.

[Halyo_Alex]

20 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Could also be Ashyn, planet literaly in fire and broken. Who knows how it looks in Cognitive, but we know is very difficult to reach this planet.

that's in the same system, so you go there through the nexus of Transition.

[mathiau]

1 minute ago, Bzhydack said:

Could also be Ashyn, planet literaly in fire and broken. Who knows how it looks in Cognitive, but we know is very difficult to reach this planet.

It is possible. And if I recall correctly in Silence Divine the cities are on floating island so from the ground the sky would look broken which might be enough to make Ashyn's sky broken.

Just now, Halyo_Alex said:

that's in the same system, so you go there through the nexus of Transition.

Is this confirmed? I mean, it's my hypothesis too (to be exact I think the Nexus of Transition leads to Braize and from there you have a way to go to Ashyn). But do we have WoBs?

[KSub]

Do we think the nexus are anything other than land masses in Shadesmar corresponding to large bodies of water in the physical realm?

[mathiau]

Just now, KSub said:

Do we think the nexus are anything other than land masses in Shadesmar corresponding to large bodies of water in the physical realm?

We don't. But this one seems to be going away from Roshar, and is the only mass of mountain of the external ocean.

[KSub]

Here's another thing that I'm not sure I understand. The map for Shadesmar matches the map for Roshar. But the side of the Rosharan map actually corresponds to the opposite side of the map.  (As maps do.) In Shadesmar you have the expanses which lead to other planets. But if it truly corresponded to Roshar it would wrap around.

 Is Shadesmar doing Cognitive mumbo jumbo because people perceive Roshar as the map shows it?

[mathiau]

Just now, KSub said:

Here's another thing that I'm not sure I understand. The map for Shadesmar matches the map for Roshar. But the side of the Rosharan map actually corresponds to the opposite side of the map.  (As maps do.) In Shadesmar you have the expanses which lead to other planets. But if it truly corresponded to Roshar it would wrap around.

 Is Shadesmar doing Cognitive mumbo jumbo because people perceive Roshar as the map shows it?

If the distance between words doesn't exist because people don't think about it, the curvature of the planet probably doesn't exists for the same reason.

This of course raises a few questions, in the space age, when people think far more about the distance between planets and planets being spheres, does shadesmare became made of spherical planets separated from each others?

[KSub]

10 minutes ago, mathiau said:

If the distance between words doesn't exist because people don't think about it, the curvature of the planet probably doesn't exists for the same reason.

This of course raises a few questions, in the space age, when people think far more about the distance between planets and planets being spheres, does shadesmare became made of spherical planets separated from each others?

I think the compression of space is related to the absence of people as opposed to them not thinking about it. It holds true for the ocean which is largely empty, although there are creatures living in the ocean. 

But my questions is when you go to the far left side of the map where do you go?

Also what are the details on the edges of the map? The woman and the ?flame?

Edited February 8, 2021 by KSub

[mathiau]

Just now, KSub said:

I think the compression of space is related to the absence of people as opposed to them not thinking about it. It holds true for the ocean which is largely empty, although there are creatures living in the ocean. 

But my questions is when you go to the far left side of the map where do you go?

Yes, the WoB says space is short because it has no human interaction in it. Interesting.

When you go to the far left of the map I guess at some point you have to chose between going south to get to the Expanse of Vibrance or north for the Expanse of the Densities

[LewsTherinTelescope]

3 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Could also be Ashyn, planet literaly in fire and broken. Who knows how it looks in Cognitive, but we know is very difficult to reach this planet.

For reference, from the Silence Divine reading:

Quote

Outside on the balcony, the sky burned. It smoldered high above, deep red lines, the color of a serpent’s tongue, glowing like rips in the air. The magma cast a warm red light across the city of <Suigmaat>. As always the air smelled faintly of smoke, though he only noticed it when he was first stepping out of the building into the open air. He knew logically that the burning place he saw above was actually the ground. He knew <Suigmaat> flew in the air, a city reversed, one of the few bastions of life left in the burning land. <Eelyell> was the one who was upside-down, as were all of the city’s inhabitants. It didn’t feel that way to him; he’d lived here too long. Upward was towards the burning ground and the land, downward was toward the sky and the sun. Things he never saw except on the rare occasion when he was called upon to visit the farms and orchards on the city’s sunward side.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/201/#e12303

[KSub]

 

2 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

For reference, from the Silence Divine reading:

Well I think that settles it.

[mathiau]

11 hours ago, KSub said:

Well I think that settles it.

It doesn't actually. If the Expanse of the Broken Sky is Ashyn and Ashyn is hard to get too, why would Braize not be in the expanses around Roshar? We're not assuming this barren world is the Expanse of Vibrance, are we?

[Ixthos]

The theory I remember from before was that the Expanse of the Broken Sky is Taldain, as it has two distinct permanent skies, one for Dayside with the visible star, and Darkside with the twilight, thus their cognitive belief and view of the sky would be different, two views for one planet. So Densities is Sel, Vibrancy is Nalthis, Vapours is Scadrial, and Broken Sky is Taldain.

[KSub]

25 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

The theory I remember from before was that the Expanse of the Broken Sky is Taldain, as it has two distinct permanent skies, one for Dayside with the visible star, and Darkside with the twilight, thus their cognitive belief and view of the sky would be different, two views for one planet. So Densities is Sel, Vibrancy is Nalthis, Vapours is Scadrial, and Broken Sky is Taldain.

This does make sense but why would you not be able to reach Ashyn from Roshar? Or, why is it not a significant point on the map at least?

Also, it seems kind of strange that each of the major shard world's that we have had narratives on would be the four corners of shadesmar. What about the other shardworlds?

I was going to suggest that Braize may not be in Shadesmar since there is no life there but glancing through the coppermind it says that it is since all shardworlds are part of the cognitive realm.

[Honorless]

16 hours ago, mathiau said:

It is possible. And if I recall correctly in Silence Divine the cities are on floating island so from the ground the sky would look broken which might be enough to make Ashyn's sky broken.

Is this confirmed? I mean, it's my hypothesis too (to be exact I think the Nexus of Transition leads to Braize and from there you have a way to go to Ashyn). But do we have WoBs?

Yeah, Ashyn is the next most common guess after Threnody for Expanse of the Broken Sky from what I've seen.

What the Nexuses are hasn't been confirmed yet. Some people also theorized that they might be connected to Roshar's moons. That they might connect to other planets in the Rosharan system is the more popular theory though there is a hiccup with that: there are three Nexuses and only two other inhabited planets in the Rosharan system, though the Nexus-Rosharan planets theory does seem more likely after info from RoW

Speaking of info from RoW, wouldn't Nexus of Imagination leading to Braize make more sense? That is where the Voidspren came from, including Ulim and the Stormspren, where the Everstorm came from, and where the "border storm" is

 

[Leuthie]

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

Yeah, Ashyn is the next most common guess after Threnody for Expanse of the Broken Sky from what I've seen.

What the Nexuses are hasn't been confirmed yet. Some people also theorized that they might be connected to Roshar's moons. That they might connect to other planets in the Rosharan system is the more popular theory though there is a hiccup with that: there are three Nexuses and only two other inhabited planets in the Rosharan system, though the Nexus-Rosharan planets theory does seem more likely after info from RoW

Speaking of info from RoW, wouldn't Nexus of Imagination leading to Braize make more sense? That is where the Voidspren came from, including Ulim and the Stormspren, where the Everstorm came from, and where the "border storm" is

 

"There's a strange storm brewing on the horizon here. I don't like it."  I've tried to call Red Herring on thing's Brandon and team has inserted into the stories before. It's never a Red Herring. With ROW also including the information that the Everstorm drifted through the Cognitive Realm prior to making its way to Roshar's Physical Realm, this is Isaac basically telling us that Nexus of Imagination leads to Braize.

Nexus of Truth is adjacent to Shinovar. Where the Ashynites ended up. Nexus of Transition is drawn in Purelake, not on the edge of the map, despite there being plenty of room to put the words on the edge of the map. This seems interesting in and of itself, and might explain a bit why there are 3 Nexuses and only 2 inhabitable planets.

[Ixthos]

2 hours ago, KSub said:

This does make sense but why would you not be able to reach Ashyn from Roshar? Or, why is it not a significant point on the map at least?

Also, it seems kind of strange that each of the major shard world's that we have had narratives on would be the four corners of shadesmar. What about the other shardworlds?

I was going to suggest that Braize may not be in Shadesmar since there is no life there but glancing through the coppermind it says that it is since all shardworlds are part of the cognitive realm.

I think you can, and like as others have said I think you can do so through the nexuses - I think when you go to the Rosharan system you can find a few paths that lead to it, and each leads to a different planet, and from each planet or moon or gas giant there is a nexus or more than one nexus that allows you to travel from one to the other, and each planet's cognitive realm size depending on how well known or travelled or inhabited it is, thus the expanses are to places away from the star, and the nexuses are to places bound by the star - subastral does mean "below a star".

I think there likely are paths between the planets, so those four are just the closest to Roshar - though closest due to belief or closest in reality isn't clear - and from them you can then take other paths to other shardworlds.

[+Child of Hodor]

I'm fairly sure it is Taldain, the White Sand planet. There is "Dayside" were the sun constantly shines and a "Darkside" where the Sun never shines. The sky is broken.  https://coppermind.net/wiki/Taldain

On Ashyn, the floor is lava, quite literally. The ground is broken there, not the sky.  The sky is the only place where it is somewhat safe. 

[Honorless]

50 minutes ago, Leuthie said:

"There's a strange storm brewing on the horizon here. I don't like it."  I've tried to call Red Herring on thing's Brandon and team has inserted into the stories before. It's never a Red Herring. With ROW also including the information that the Everstorm drifted through the Cognitive Realm prior to making its way to Roshar's Physical Realm, this is Isaac basically telling us that Nexus of Imagination leads to Braize.

Nexus of Truth is adjacent to Shinovar. Where the Ashynites ended up. Nexus of Transition is drawn in Purelake, not on the edge of the map, despite there being plenty of room to put the words on the edge of the map. This seems interesting in and of itself, and might explain a bit why there are 3 Nexuses and only 2 inhabitable planets.

Interesting idea, but isn't the Nexus of Transition on the Reshi Seas? 

[Leuthie]

11 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Interesting idea, but isn't the Nexus of Transition on the Reshi Seas? 

Yeah, I didn't look at a Physical map and just thought of the water I knew to be in the north. Forgot about the Reshi.

*edit: My 666 post, so the devil made me do it.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Leuthie

[mathiau]

32 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

I'm fairly sure it is Taldain, the White Sand planet. There is "Dayside" were the sun constantly shines and a "Darkside" where the Sun never shines. The sky is broken.  https://coppermind.net/wiki/Taldain

On Ashyn, the floor is lava, quite literally. The ground is broken there, not the sky.  The sky is the only place where it is somewhat safe. 

That wouldn't make the sky literally broken, you would have a zone of eternal dawn/sunset. Half of the people would see it as day and half as night which might create a broken sky in Shadesmare but the sky of Shadesmare is weird enough that I think you'd need more than that to have a broken sky (unless I'm mistaken there's no daylight cycle there and the sky doesn't change?). Also Taldain is confirmed to be isolationist and I think it have an effect on how easy it's to get there, one that would be seen on the map.

1 hour ago, Leuthie said:

"There's a strange storm brewing on the horizon here. I don't like it."  I've tried to call Red Herring on thing's Brandon and team has inserted into the stories before. It's never a Red Herring. With ROW also including the information that the Everstorm drifted through the Cognitive Realm prior to making its way to Roshar's Physical Realm, this is Isaac basically telling us that Nexus of Imagination leads to Braize.

Nexus of Truth is adjacent to Shinovar. Where the Ashynites ended up. Nexus of Transition is drawn in Purelake, not on the edge of the map, despite there being plenty of room to put the words on the edge of the map. This seems interesting in and of itself, and might explain a bit why there are 3 Nexuses and only 2 inhabitable planets.

The Nexus of Truth seems to connect Roshar to Sel, not to Ashyn. Hmmm... Galivar mention Braize had to be connected to Roshar since there was a way to go there in Shadesmare and some people said Ishi -who was already the binder of God- had made the people come to Roshar, no? Maybe he had created a temporary connection from Ashyn to Roshar that is now gone? If I'm right about Ashynites originating from Sel (and possibly having left it when Odium shattered Dom and Dev) then it would make sense for them to appear on the way between Roshar and Sel.

[+Harrycrapper]

18 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

For reference, from the Silence Divine reading:

I never read the Silence Divine reading. Man they really screwed that planet up good. 

[Realmatic Shadow]

5 hours ago, mathiau said:

(unless I'm mistaken there's no daylight cycle there and the sky doesn't change?).

The planet of Taldain is tidally locked between the two stars in its system, which means that one side of the planet will always face towards the brighter star (the Dayside of the planet) and the other side will always face towards the minor star in the system (Darkside). 

[mathiau]

Just now, Realmatic Shadow said:

The planet of Taldain is tidally locked between the two stars in its system, which means that one side of the planet will always face towards the brighter star (the Dayside of the planet) and the other side will always face towards the minor star in the system (Darkside). 

I mean in Roshar/Scadrial's Shadesmare there's no daylight cycle