TheOnlyEdgedancer Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Ok, so I just got to the point in RoW where Phendorana dies, so what exactly happened???? I’m kinda confused. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddie The Survivor Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, TheOnlyEdgedancersss said: Ok, so I just got to the point in RoW where Phendorana dies, so what exactly happened???? I’m kinda confused. Well, as far as I understand, it’s like they moved on to the after life (The Tranquiline Halls) just like Roboniel’s daughter did with the multi-light knife. Then again I could be wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 I read it as the investiture was completely destroyed I don’t think phendorra went to the Beyond 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddie The Survivor Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Well. Like I said I could be wrong lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smye Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 52 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: I read it as the investiture was completely destroyed I don’t think Phendorra went to the Beyond I disagree. I think you're spot on for the 'common' or 'lesser spren,' those without sapience. But we also know that Radiant spren have a personhood in addition to their raw investiture and that any sufficiently-large body of investiture will gain cognizance. So while the investiture itself may well have been annihilated, I think it unlikely that the 'soul' or personhood of Phendorana was similarly wiped out. It's a difficult set of distinctions to draw, but a big theme so far in Stormlight has been the agency and personhood of the Spren (particularly the Radiant Spren) and it seems out of theme for them to revert to 'lesser beings' upon death than humans. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyn Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) If there is an afterlife, there’s no reason for Phendorana’s soul not to have gone to it. tl;dr If souls go on The Beyond, a dead spren’s should, too. Everything loses its Investiture at death, and a spren’s “body” being formed of Investiture shouldn’t make losing its Investiture somehow destroy its soul’s identity but not other sentient beings’. So, lots of related WoBs. Loooong WoBs (always subject to being one-upped by the text, and italics mine) confirm: that most things have souls, Spoiler Questioner I wanted to ask whether cake has a soul? In Realmatic theory, stuff has souls. So, somebody turns wheat into flour, and flour has a soul. Do they come together when I bake the cake? Brandon Sanderson ...So, this gets into some weird cosmere theory stuff. The level that if you are a student of philosophy, you'll recognize just wearing on the sleeve where this one came from. This is a mashup of Shinto beliefs and the theory of the forms by Plato, and kind of its own weird thing, that became Realmatic theory in the cosmere... So, in the cosmere, things take on an Identity and a soul based on how people perceive them. It's human perception that is creating a lot of this, because the various powers that made the universe have this sort of desire to be sentient. And power left long too long in the cosmere starts thinking, that's just how it goes, and starts thinking of itself the way it is perceived. So, that cake, as soon as its created, the disparate parts of the souls start being thought of as a cake, and start gaining some traction as a cake. If you left that cake alone long enough, which wouldn't take too long for a cake because people don't look at cake and think "Oh, a bunch of wheat and flour." They think "Cake." That thing will start having a combined soul of the various bits of power, and the longer you leave it, the more permanency it's gonna have as a Spiritual artifact in the cosmere. So, yes, cake has a soul. Oathbringer Glasgow signing (Dec. 2, 2017) that souls in general are composed of Investiture, Spoiler Yata When someone dies on Nalthis, their Breaths: go away with the soul, or remain in the corpse? Brandon Sanderson Breaths return to Endowment. Yata Together with the soul? Or remain in the corpse? Brandon Sanderson The soul-- Yata Passes away? Brandon Sanderson Yes, unless it turns into a Cognitive Shadow. Then, the soul goes into the Beyond. And so the actual essence of the soul, the Investiture of it, does return to Endowment. Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017) ...but the Investiture is not the soul Spoiler Khyrindor You've said that Returned count as Cognitive shadows "stapled" back into their bodies, and that the Heralds are at least similar. Would I be right in assuming that Elantrians could be considered as Cognitive Shadows as well, or am I barking up the wrong tree? Brandon Sanderson Elantrians are something different. They don't actually "die" to be created. Recognize that the term cognitive shadow is an in-cosmere theory, which I'm not going to comment on as the creator of the setting. The theory is this: Investiture seeks sapience. It looks for someone to control it or, in some instances, spontaneously adopts personality. A mind (cognitive aspect of a person) can become infused with Investiture. This acts a little like minerals with petrified wood, replacing the mind and personality with investiture. When the actual person dies, this investiture imprint remains behind. A copy of the soul, but not the actual soul. Others disagree with this, and think the soul itself persists. Still others reject the theory in its entirety. linkhyrule5 Huh. ... Kandra are almost literally stapled to their bodies with Hemalurgy - would they count as such, to the in-setting scholars? Brandon Sanderson No, they wouldn't. They are beings who have had their souls twisted by Hemalurgy--the soul never left, it's just been messed up. Someone else who has a soul stapled to a body with Hemalurgy would count though. Stormlight Three Update #6 (Jan. 20, 2017) that the souls of at least sentient beings go on to The Beyond, Spoiler Questioner We see, in Secret History, all the people going Beyond after they die. Do all the victims go there? Or just people? Just sentients? Would a Ryshadium go the Beyond, if it died. Brandon Sanderson Um-- Yes. Questioner What about, like, a rockbud, or a chasmfiend? Brandon Sanderson Um, that, you're gonna have to ask the philosophers about. Because, if it happens, it happens really fast, so they have trouble spotting it. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) that Investiture isn’t destroyed, Spoiler trevorade Is investiture finite? Hemalurgy and a Return's need to consume breath seems to show us that it can be destroyed. If it is finite, is the Cosmere's magic source doomed to the law of entropy? Brandon Sanderson Investiture can not be created or destroyed. It follows it's own version of the laws of Thermodynamics. Joe_____ So what happens to the investiture that is lost when a person is spiked and the spike isn't set in the new person immediately? Does it return to the big pool of investiture in the sky like the power from wheel of time where if its not actively being used it returns to the source? Brandon Sanderson What happens to someone's body when it's not being used by a particular person? The system is built to work like that. /r/books AMA 2015 (March 12, 2015) and, in the same vein, that Investiture and energy and matter can be thermodynamically interchanged. Spoiler Kurkistan If Investiture can neither be created nor destroyed, and Feruchemy is all fueled by the Feruchemist himself, then how do metalminds end up being invested without Feruchemists seeming to suffer any long-term loss of Investiture? If they're not "creating" the energy that's going into the metalminds, then where's it coming from? Brandon Sanderson The cosmere takes physics from our universe, and adds additional layers to it. Where we have energy and matter (simplified), the cosmere has additional building blocks that make reality. Investiture is one of these. It IS possible to change matter, to energy, to investiture, and back. /r/books AMA 2015 (June 5, 2015) If, when Investiture connecting a person’s souls (to their bodies, their lives, their friends, etc.) is sent back to the universe, their identities in their souls presumably continue to The Beyond, then there’s no reason for a spren’s soul to be destroyed in the same situation just because it’s body basically was Investiture. The dead spren still merely lost its body and the power animating it, just like the soul of a dead human would have. Edited February 7, 2021 by Kyn spoiler-tagged long WoBs 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 47 minutes ago, Kyn said: If there is an afterlife, there’s no reason for Phendorana’s soul not to have gone to it. tl;dr If souls go on The Beyond, a dead spren’s should, too. Everything loses its Investiture at death, and a spren’s “body” being formed of Investiture shouldn’t make losing its Investiture somehow destroy its soul’s identity but not other sentient beings’. So, lots of related WoBs. Loooong WoBs (always subject to being one-upped by the text, and italics mine) confirm: that most things have souls, Hide contents Questioner I wanted to ask whether cake has a soul? In Realmatic theory, stuff has souls. So, somebody turns wheat into flour, and flour has a soul. Do they come together when I bake the cake? Brandon Sanderson ...So, this gets into some weird cosmere theory stuff. The level that if you are a student of philosophy, you'll recognize just wearing on the sleeve where this one came from. This is a mashup of Shinto beliefs and the theory of the forms by Plato, and kind of its own weird thing, that became Realmatic theory in the cosmere... So, in the cosmere, things take on an Identity and a soul based on how people perceive them. It's human perception that is creating a lot of this, because the various powers that made the universe have this sort of desire to be sentient. And power left long too long in the cosmere starts thinking, that's just how it goes, and starts thinking of itself the way it is perceived. So, that cake, as soon as its created, the disparate parts of the souls start being thought of as a cake, and start gaining some traction as a cake. If you left that cake alone long enough, which wouldn't take too long for a cake because people don't look at cake and think "Oh, a bunch of wheat and flour." They think "Cake." That thing will start having a combined soul of the various bits of power, and the longer you leave it, the more permanency it's gonna have as a Spiritual artifact in the cosmere. So, yes, cake has a soul. Oathbringer Glasgow signing (Dec. 2, 2017) that souls in general are composed of Investiture, Hide contents Yata When someone dies on Nalthis, their Breaths: go away with the soul, or remain in the corpse? Brandon Sanderson Breaths return to Endowment. Yata Together with the soul? Or remain in the corpse? Brandon Sanderson The soul-- Yata Passes away? Brandon Sanderson Yes, unless it turns into a Cognitive Shadow. Then, the soul goes into the Beyond. And so the actual essence of the soul, the Investiture of it, does return to Endowment. Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017) ...but the Investiture is not the soul Hide contents Khyrindor You've said that Returned count as Cognitive shadows "stapled" back into their bodies, and that the Heralds are at least similar. Would I be right in assuming that Elantrians could be considered as Cognitive Shadows as well, or am I barking up the wrong tree? Brandon Sanderson Elantrians are something different. They don't actually "die" to be created. Recognize that the term cognitive shadow is an in-cosmere theory, which I'm not going to comment on as the creator of the setting. The theory is this: Investiture seeks sapience. It looks for someone to control it or, in some instances, spontaneously adopts personality. A mind (cognitive aspect of a person) can become infused with Investiture. This acts a little like minerals with petrified wood, replacing the mind and personality with investiture. When the actual person dies, this investiture imprint remains behind. A copy of the soul, but not the actual soul. Others disagree with this, and think the soul itself persists. Still others reject the theory in its entirety. linkhyrule5 Huh. ... Kandra are almost literally stapled to their bodies with Hemalurgy - would they count as such, to the in-setting scholars? Brandon Sanderson No, they wouldn't. They are beings who have had their souls twisted by Hemalurgy--the soul never left, it's just been messed up. Someone else who has a soul stapled to a body with Hemalurgy would count though. Stormlight Three Update #6 (Jan. 20, 2017) that the souls of at least sentient beings go on to The Beyond, Hide contents Questioner We see, in Secret History, all the people going Beyond after they die. Do all the victims go there? Or just people? Just sentients? Would a Ryshadium go the Beyond, if it died. Brandon Sanderson Um-- Yes. Questioner What about, like, a rockbud, or a chasmfiend? Brandon Sanderson Um, that, you're gonna have to ask the philosophers about. Because, if it happens, it happens really fast, so they have trouble spotting it. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) that Investiture isn’t destroyed, Hide contents trevorade Is investiture finite? Hemalurgy and a Return's need to consume breath seems to show us that it can be destroyed. If it is finite, is the Cosmere's magic source doomed to the law of entropy? Brandon Sanderson Investiture can not be created or destroyed. It follows it's own version of the laws of Thermodynamics. Joe_____ So what happens to the investiture that is lost when a person is spiked and the spike isn't set in the new person immediately? Does it return to the big pool of investiture in the sky like the power from wheel of time where if its not actively being used it returns to the source? Brandon Sanderson What happens to someone's body when it's not being used by a particular person? The system is built to work like that. /r/books AMA 2015 (March 12, 2015) and, in the same vein, that Investiture and energy and matter can be thermodynamically interchanged. Hide contents Kurkistan If Investiture can neither be created nor destroyed, and Feruchemy is all fueled by the Feruchemist himself, then how do metalminds end up being invested without Feruchemists seeming to suffer any long-term loss of Investiture? If they're not "creating" the energy that's going into the metalminds, then where's it coming from? Brandon Sanderson The cosmere takes physics from our universe, and adds additional layers to it. Where we have energy and matter (simplified), the cosmere has additional building blocks that make reality. Investiture is one of these. It IS possible to change matter, to energy, to investiture, and back. /r/books AMA 2015 (June 5, 2015) If, when Investiture connecting a person’s souls (to their bodies, their lives, their friends, etc.) is sent back to the universe, their identities in their souls presumably continue to The Beyond, then there’s no reason for a spren’s soul to be destroyed in the same situation just because it’s body basically was Investiture. The dead spren still merely lost its body and the power animating it, just like the soul of a dead human would have. If you ascribe to “Cognitive Shadows are the original soul” then perma-killing one is literally the same thing - and indications are that the soul of one does go Beyond. Here’s a fun question: if a CS is a copy, does it develop its own soul? Because Kell definitely felt something pulling him Beyond at certain points even after he became a Shadow, which implies to me that he has one. (I say his original, though otherw would disagree.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, Smye said: I disagree. I think you're spot on for the 'common' or 'lesser spren,' those without sapience. But we also know that Radiant spren have a personhood in addition to their raw investiture and that any sufficiently-large body of investiture will gain cognizance. So while the investiture itself may well have been annihilated, I think it unlikely that the 'soul' or personhood of Phendorana was similarly wiped out. It's a difficult set of distinctions to draw, but a big theme so far in Stormlight has been the agency and personhood of the Spren (particularly the Radiant Spren) and it seems out of theme for them to revert to 'lesser beings' upon death than humans. Spren are just investiture gaining sapience higher Spren just have more investiture I don’t think they have souls or are ppl thyre living ideas once you remove the investiture there is nothing left humans and animals have souls that cannot be destroyed Edited February 7, 2021 by Bejardin1250 Clarification 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Bejardin1250 said: humans and animals have souls that cannot be destroyed If they do(and I'm not saying they don't becasue I agree) we have yet to see any evidence of this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegia Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 I don't think we have ANY evidence of the existence (or lack thereof) of eternal souls for ANYONE, human, animal, spren, or otherwise. Nor do I expect any. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 29 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: I don't think we have ANY evidence of the existence (or lack thereof) of eternal souls for ANYONE, human, animal, spren, or otherwise. Nor do I expect any. Very true. This is an entirely philosophical discussion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 When the actual person dies, this investiture imprint remains behind. A copy of the soul, but not the actual soul. I took this to mean that investiture is not the soul but maybe I was wrong 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyn Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 24 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: I took this to mean that investiture is not the soul but maybe I was wrong This is all based on what the people in-universe think or WoB says. We are all maybe wrong. I just don’t understand the logical connection between some of your assertions. These are other ideas you stated: 3 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said: Spren are just investiture gaining sapience higher Spren just have more investiture I don’t think they have souls or are ppl thyre living ideas once you remove the investiture there is nothing left humans and animals have souls that cannot be destroyed Why is it that you think humans and animals have souls? If it’s because they’re sentient, why would you assume sentient ideas – what you call “Investiture gaining sapience” – don’t have a soul? If they all have souls, and all of their souls are connected to their bodies by Investiture but – according to you – Investiture ≠ the soul, then why would destroying (but really just recycling back into the Cosmere) the Investiture that spren are made of prevent their souls from going to The Beyond? It just seems like a convoluted way of denying Phendorana whatever afterlife death normally provides in the Cosmere. Believing in no souls at all or in no Beyond for any would be consistent. But this seems to be an argument that spren just don’t get souls like other sentient creatures? Or am I misunderstanding? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 17 minutes ago, Kyn said: This is all based on what the people in-universe think or WoB says. We are all maybe wrong. I just don’t understand the logical connection between some of your assertions. These are other ideas you stated: Why is it that you think humans and animals have souls? If it’s because they’re sentient, why would you assume sentient ideas – what you call “Investiture gaining sapience” – don’t have a soul? If they all have souls, and all of their souls are connected to their bodies by Investiture but – according to you – Investiture ≠ the soul, then why would destroying (but really just recycling back into the Cosmere) the Investiture that spren are made of prevent their souls from going to The Beyond? It just seems like a convoluted way of denying Phendorana whatever afterlife death normally provides in the Cosmere. Believing in no souls at all or in no Beyond for any would be consistent. But this seems to be an argument that spren just don’t get souls like other sentient creatures? Or am I misunderstanding? No this is not a misunderstanding there is a fundamental difference between animals/human and spren Humans are not entirely made up of investiture unless a “soul” is completely made up of investiture ( which would mean stabbing anyone with anti-light would kill them) there is something else in a human that provides sapience my theory( nothing here obviously is confirmed just my understanding) is that that extra thing in a human goes into the Beyond Spren do not have this. they are complete investiture, which is emulating human life,but isn’t human life. When they are destroyed with antilight there is nothing left to go on. however cruel it may seem their gone forever ( unless you count thermodynamics matter cannot be created or destroyed only changed( paraphrased) ) Again just a theory not a fact I also probably contradicted myself a few times but whatever 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Bejardin1250 said: When the actual person dies, this investiture imprint remains behind. A copy of the soul, but not the actual soul. I took this to mean that investiture is not the soul but maybe I was wrong This is an in-world theory. There are others. 6 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: No this is not a misunderstanding there is a fundamental difference between animals/human and spren Humans are not entirely made up of investiture unless a “soul” is completely made up of investiture ( which would mean stabbing anyone with anti-light would kill them) there is something else in a human that provides sapience my theory( nothing here obviously is confirmed just my understanding) is that that extra thing in a human goes into the Beyond Spren do not have this. they are complete investiture, which is emulating human life,but isn’t human life. When they are destroyed with antilight there is nothing left to go on. however cruel it may seem their gone forever ( unless you count thermodynamics matter cannot be created or destroyed only changed( paraphrased) ) Again just a theory not a fact I also probably contradicted myself a few times but whatever Humans on Scadrial are sapient due to a piece of Preservation inside them. By your understanding Scadrian humans lack souls as their sapience is entirely due to Investiture, despite having physical bodies. While a valid theory, I would disagree with this. Personally, I think all sapient beings have souls. Anti-light kills people whose primary being is Cognitive, just like swords kill people whose primary being is Physical. Unless those people can find a way to anchor themselves as a pseudo-Cognitive being, of course, which I don’t think changes/removes/copies their soul. But that’s my theory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 33 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: This is an in-world theory. There are others. Humans on Scadrial are sapient due to a piece of Preservation inside them. By your understanding Scadrian humans lack souls as their sapience is entirely due to Investiture, despite having physical bodies. While a valid theory, I would disagree with Yes this is the hole in the theory ( among many) as a scadrians obviously have souls It could be because of the unique nature of ruin and preservation and using a template from adonalisium they were able to somehow create a soul this is a complete crack theory with absolutely no basis whatsoever but it could explain scadrian nonsense any ideas? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 10 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: Yes this is the hole in the theory ( among many) as a scadrians obviously have souls It could be because of the unique nature of ruin and preservation and using a template from adonalisium they were able to somehow create a soul this is a complete crack theory with absolutely no basis whatsoever but it could explain scadrian nonsense any ideas? The Soul, if it exists, is something of the Beyond and the God Beyond and has nothing whatsoever to do with Adonalsium and the Shards thereof. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Spoiler Walin Does Nightblood contain any of Ruin's Investiture? Like, not atium, but... Brandon Sanderson Yes, technically; and I'm not wiggling around that, because technically, location in the Cosmere and who belongs to what gets really weird, right? Because Ruin's Investiture is everywhere--but I'm not talking that way. I'm talking the way you actually mean it. I’m not sure about this but I remember seeing that nightbloods cammand pulled in ruins investiture And it did it b/c it was so connected to it so maybe b/c preservation and ruin created an exact human it brought in a soul from the place like the Beyond that’s why they have souls and spren don’t 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 16 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: Reveal hidden contents Walin Does Nightblood contain any of Ruin's Investiture? Like, not atium, but... Brandon Sanderson Yes, technically; and I'm not wiggling around that, because technically, location in the Cosmere and who belongs to what gets really weird, right? Because Ruin's Investiture is everywhere--but I'm not talking that way. I'm talking the way you actually mean it. I’m not sure about this but I remember seeing that nightbloods cammand pulled in ruins investiture And it did it b/c it was so connected to it so maybe b/c preservation and ruin created an exact human it brought in a soul from the place like the Beyond that’s why they have souls and spren don’t I, what? Shards can't affect the Beyond, they can't even tell if it exists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danex Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 My interpretation of Souls in the cosmere is like this. Souls != Spiritual Aspect. Realmatic Theory says that each person has three aspects of themselves, each present in one of the three realms. Your Physical Aspect (body) is in the Physical Realm, your Cognitive Aspect (mind) is in the Cognitive Realm (aka Shadesmar), and your Spiritual Aspect (soul aka Spiritweb) is in the Spiritual Realm. This ties into a ton of things like Shardblade wounds and investiture healing, but when the Beyond is concerned, I am of the opinion that your “Spiritual Aspect” isn’t your actual Soul. Otherwise all sorts of Cosmere rules start messing everything up. Like, if your Spiritual Aspect was what went to the Beyond (if the Beyond exists), then people killed by Shardblades or Nightblood or Hemalurgy wouldn’t go there, since those weapons attack people’s spiritwebs. And that just doesn’t seem right. Brandon wants the existence of a ‘true afterlife’ to be completely up to the reader’s interpretation, to be a vague concept that isn’t directly touched. So, to say that people’s Spiritual Aspects are what is pulled into the Beyond, that just doesn’t fit. Therefore, people’s souls != people’s Souls. TL;DR: There is no canon answer to the question of “Did Phendorana go to the Beyond?”, as whether or not Spren have Souls (as opposed to spiritwebs) is up to debate and will not be answered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 I would like to mention we know character who do not go to the beyond after being killed... the Fused killed by Nightblood. they did not come back. What's to say that spren killed by anti-investiture wouldn't also not go to the beyond? It's a perma kill of a being not normally killable. (Also, maybe people who are spiked. Not sure if their soul goes to the beyond.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danex Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 17 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said: I would like to mention we know character who do not go to the beyond after being killed... the Fused killed by Nightblood. they did not come back. What's to say that spren killed by anti-investiture wouldn't also not go to the beyond? It's a perma kill of a being not normally killable. (Also, maybe people who are spiked. Not sure if their soul goes to the beyond.) Is this a response to my post directly above yours? Because I explain that exactly. The Beyond is not a place of Investiture. Your Investiture-Soul (spiritweb) has to be a separate thing from your theoretical ‘Soul-Soul’, based on the way the concept of the Beyond is addressed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Just now, Dannex said: Is this a response to my post directly above yours? Because I explain that exactly. The Beyond is not a place of Investiture. Your Investiture-Soul (spiritweb) has to be a separate thing from your theoretical ‘Soul-Soul’, based on the way the concept of the Beyond is addressed. No, it was not a response to you, just something in general to note. Though I will mention investiture comes from the Beyond. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danex Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said: Though I will mention investiture comes from the Beyond. [Citation Needed] All Investiture comes from Adonalsium, No? Edited February 8, 2021 by Dannex 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Just now, Dannex said: [Citation Needed] All Investiture comes from Adonalsium, No? The reason perpendicularities give so much investiture is that their combining the three realms. We have been to the physical and cognitive realm, so it's not those, so it's the spiritual realm providing all the investiture 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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