The Cryptic language?

[AquaRegia]

Just reread chapter 26 in RoW, in which we find that "Motif, Ishnah's Cryptic... His Alethi was not good, so he preferred to speak in the Cryptic language."

Say what, now?  Have seen this before?  Do other types of spren have their own languages?  Did I miss something?

I'd been under the impression that spren could speak to anyone.  Why?  Partly due to the Stump's spren performing as a translator, partly due to the fact that there has never (until now) been an encounter between a spren and a human where communication was a problem, and partly due to the fact that they are - as Syl would say - "immortal slivers of god" and stuff.  Suddenly we are supposed to think that spren have to LEARN human languages?  If so, doesn't it seem odd that so many of them seem to speak perfect Alethi?  Did Wyndle have to study Azish as a prerequisite before being allowed to bond Lift?  I feel like everything has changed.

Am I nuts?

[Draigwyrdd]

Maybe they have to learn languages. Maybe they have some Connection type deal where they know the language of the Physical Realm location where their CR home is. Maybe they Connect to their human and learn their language that way, but can't do it to other humans.

Or maybe they do have to learn human languages and every spren we've seen thus far just chose someone whose language they knew how to speak?

[Lunu’anaki]

7 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

Am I nuts?

No.

...but it's entirely possible that abilities with language (which are almost certainly connection-based) are different depending on the type of spren/order that is involved. Honor spren, the spren which we get the most face-time with, alongside Bondsmith spren are the most likely to have some Connection ability for languages... those that lean more towards Cultivation and less toward Honor (Cryptics) might not have that same ability.

Also, spren are very old. It's not impossible that they make being multilingual a habit, like the sane fused and the Heralds seem to as well.

 

[mathiau]

8 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

Say what, now?  Have seen this before?  Do other types of spren have their own languages?  Did I miss something?

In Oathbringer Syl acted as a translator in Shadesmare and in WoR Pattern had to translate from stick to Shallan

[teknopathetic]

Weird. How can a Cryptic not learn a language? They crack patterns and meaning almost instantly. 
 

Pattern got the dawnchant from supposition, so why wouldn’t most Cryptics get the Alethi language with some help? Unless maybe Pattern is especially good with language patterns. Could it be the type of pattern making up a pattern gives them different skills? 

Edited February 7, 2021 by teknopathetic

[Kyn]

34 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Weird. How can a Cryptic not learn a language? They crack patterns and meaning almost instantly.

I actually think the Alethi language should fall into patterns pretty easily, but not all languages do. One like English, that draws from a host of different source language roots, and cobbles together all sorts of grammar and other linguistic rules in the process, should be pretty hard to figure out, compared to more ordered languages. It’s possible that the way the Alethi substitute certain sounds for others seems illogical to certain mindsets, thus making the pattern difficult for this particular Cryptic to crack.

Probably this is just a Cryptic who does better with different types of patterns than linguistic ones. In the real world, there are plenty of people who “get” numbers or logic but are stymied by languages. Just like there are people who are excellent with a particular “hard” science but struggle with a similar theoretical one even though both might require the same heavy math skills…just applied differently.

[Honorless]

I thought the spren, being Cognitive, could just speak all Rosharan languages from the get-go.

Besides, the spren had no contact with the Rosharans for long enough to have their languages diverge a bit. Spren are basically immortal, so it was probably the humans whose tongues diverged. The spren probably would have their language for precisely this reason, human languages change, and humans weren't always there to begin with. And it makes sense for the Cryptics, given that they are the spren of the underlying mathematical truths of the world, to have a mathematical language.

The Stoneward spren apparently have different nations, I wonder if each has its own language... 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Honorless

[AquaRegia]

11 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Weird. How can a Cryptic not learn a language? They crack patterns and meaning almost instantly.

Yes, thanks for reminding me about that.  Another reason why it seemed strange and unreasonable to me.

10 hours ago, Kyn said:

Probably this is just a Cryptic who does better with different types of patterns than linguistic ones.

Indeed, I think we are forced to accept this as the most likely explanation.

8 hours ago, Honorless said:

I thought the spren, being Cognitive, could just speak all Rosharan languages from the get-go.

EXACTLY!  I feel like there have been some odd inconsistencies in SA regarding language barriers; when are they important, and when are they completely nonexistent?   I'm experiencing some Cognitive Dissonance here. 

I look forward to seeing more spren and learning how many have their own (nonhuman, nonsinger) languages.

Edited February 7, 2021 by AquaRegia
grammar fix

[mathiau]

13 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Weird. How can a Cryptic not learn a language? They crack patterns and meaning almost instantly.

Able to speak a language != will never prefer speaking another language.

12 hours ago, Kyn said:

Probably this is just a Cryptic who does better with different types of patterns than linguistic ones. In the real world, there are plenty of people who “get” numbers or logic but are stymied by languages. Just like there are people who are excellent with a particular “hard” science but struggle with a similar theoretical one even though both might require the same heavy math skills…just applied differently.

Cryptics are embodiments of natural laws, maybe the one Pattern is the embodiment of have something to do with why and how languages change?

10 hours ago, Honorless said:

I thought the spren, being Cognitive, could just speak all Rosharan languages from the get-go.

Why? Speaking languages is not just about be Cognitive, it's about having Connexion, which is why the sprens with adhesion (Honourspren and Boundsmith sprens) don't seem to have language barrier issues while the other do.