Advancing Aons

[TheWanderer]

Background

So, I have just finished a reread of Elantris and something caught my eye. When the city was in its full glory enchanted items based on Aons made by Elantrians were used for a plethora of things that made the city more comfortable, light, plumbing, etc. As I thought on this a theory came to my mind, now I could be completely off base so please bear with me. One aspect of these items that caught my attention were aons put in people's homes such as the one for light (Ashe). Given that many non elantrians also lived in the city I assume they were also capable of using the ashe aon to alter the lighting in their rooms. Otherwise they would have to call an elantrian in to do it for them, which sound very inconvenient. So I began to wonder if they could utilize these enchanted items could this be expanded upon further? I should specify I don't mean that those non elantrians made the aon, but rather were able to utilize what was already present as made by the Elantrians.

The Theory

Essentially I began to wonder what would happen if Sel advanced far enough to enter the computer age? Could computers that were crafted specifically by Elantrians then be used to form Aons? Potentially even Aons useable by anyone as the initial creation would have been done by an Elantrian. If this proves impossible, as the idea of normal people using the enchanted items is speculation on my part. There is still a possibility of Elantrians being able to rapidly expedite their casting via a form of automation.

Weak Points to The Theory

I am aware that while Elantrians could use tools such as quills, sticks, etc to make aons and they still functioned. Ultimately they needed to use their intent as part of the process. I also concede that I may be completely off base in assuming that the Aons will function without being directly made by an Elantrian. Either way I thought the idea was interesting and I hope you do as well.

Afterword

Thank you for bearing with me there. I would love any and all thoughts on the theory, and look forward to the discussion. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by TheWanderer

[+Cyprian Wiley]

I do not think that non-elantrian habitants could use the light Aons or anything else. If there were actually normal people in the city of Elantris they would either live with an Elantrian or the Light would be st up in a way that it has an timer or something similar.
But that´s just what I think.

[Honorless]

There's this:

Quote

DrogaKrolow

OK, I’ve got a question about AonDor.

Brandon Sanderson

Ok.

DrogaKrolow

So it's a lot like functional programing.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

DrogaKrolow

And my question is: could you write a higher-level language of programming with that?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

DrogaKrolow

Oh...

Brandon Sanderson

Mmhmm. But. Only an Elantrian could make it, like, work, right? Not compile but could execute the function. They would have to type it out and execute it. Like if you were just-- Even if you just gave it to them, they would have to retype it and go. But yes, you could.

DrogaKrolow

Couldn't you like-- Is there an Aon for define, definition? So like you could go and define some really long sequence of Aons and then assign it to a simple shape.

Brandon Sanderson

Right.

DrogaKrolow

Then draw the symbol, and would it work?

Brandon Sanderson

Right right, object-oriented. This is realistically plausible, you would have to write all this stuff and call the function and have this constantly in a state of kinetic Investiture. But that is reasonable. I mean it's not so far off from things they actually did with much fewer-- much fewer lines of code, if you wish, in the past. It's what Elantris itself was.

DrogaKrolow.pl interview (March 17, 2017)

And yes, I think other people could use Elantrian made devices. The light Aon as well as the maker of the object providing the necessary Intent to make a magitech function provide good support to that supposition.

[Quantus]

I read "Advancing Seons" and thought this was going to be a whole other conversation. 

Yes, I am very excited by the concept of AonDor (and in their own ways all the Selish Magics) advancing to their full "Programming Languages of the Universe" potential.  Each of the four(?) main Shardworlds seem to have a lot of specific and diverse potential for more modern/scientific approaches.  There are lots of WOB's saying this was intentional, and will culminate in the full Distant Future Space-Age crossover series at the end of things.   

[Chasmgoat]

I just want minecraft or google using AonDor...

[TheWanderer]

4 hours ago, Honorless said:

There's this:

And yes, I think other people could use Elantrian made devices. The light Aon as well as the maker of the object providing the necessary Intent to make a magitech function provide good support to that supposition.

Man, I really need to read the WOBs at some point. Intriguing and good to know, I mostly write these theories blind.

[KSub]

It's been so long since I read Elantris.

So Brandon is saying the city represents a large series of 'code'? I guess that's what creates the Elantrians.

I hope we get another book set on Sel before era4. It would be nice to have a clearer picture of what's going on there.

[CTA]

It'll be interesting to see how Sel interacts with other space age powers given the geographic limitations of their magic system. I could imagine Elantrian engineers making really cool magitech devices that are completely impossible to export.

[TheOneEyedFox]

On 2/5/2021 at 5:32 AM, TheWanderer said:

I am aware that while Elantrians could use tools such as quills, sticks, etc to make aons and they still functioned. Ultimately they needed to use their intent as part of the process.

Aon Dor stamps, precarved sticks with large aons extending from the ends and the process of pushing the stick would function the same as stabbing a finger. More advanced methods could use giant precarved stamps pushed by several Elantrians focusing a singular intent.

[TheWanderer]

Fascinating, thanks for letting me know.

[+Oltux72]

On 5.2.2021 at 11:32 AM, TheWanderer said:

Background

So, I have just finished a reread of Elantris and something caught my eye. When the city was in its full glory enchanted items based on Aons made by Elantrians were used for a plethora of things that made the city more comfortable, light, plumbing, etc. As I thought on this a theory came to my mind, now I could be completely off base so please bear with me. One aspect of these items that caught my attention were aons put in people's homes such as the one for light (Ashe). Given that many non elantrians also lived in the city I assume they were also capable of using the ashe aon to alter the lighting in their rooms. Otherwise they would have to call an elantrian in to do it for them, which sound very inconvenient. So I began to wonder if they could utilize these enchanted items could this be expanded upon further? I should specify I don't mean that those non elantrians made the aon, but rather were able to utilize what was already present as made by the Elantrians.

That does really depend on the extent to which Aons can do input in computer terms. You need an Elantrian to switch them on, but you can get around that by writing a complicated sequence that does nothing until an external stimulus like a switch being thrown arises. The usability depends on the stimuli there are Aons for.

[Cocoa]

I definitely think once we hit space-age Cosmere that we'll start seeing computers and the like used to directly enhance Selish magic. Another possibility I've thought of is using graphic design software and laser etching on crystal to get ultra-precise soulstamps.

[Trusk'our]

On 4/2/2021 at 1:58 AM, TheOneEyedFox said:

Aon Dor stamps, precarved sticks with large aons extending from the ends and the process of pushing the stick would function the same as stabbing a finger. More advanced methods could use giant precarved stamps pushed by several Elantrians focusing a singular intent.

A fascinating idea. Perhaps someone who wasn't an Elantran, but who studied the use of Aons intensely, could create these than give them to Elantrians to make work. Perhaps you could even make more advanced Elantrian equations work this way if you got detailed enough.

[Pathfinder]

13 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

A fascinating idea. Perhaps someone who wasn't an Elantran, but who studied the use of Aons intensely, could create these than give them to Elantrians to make work. Perhaps you could even make more advanced Elantrian equations work this way if you got detailed enough.

Don't know if you ever read the series "The Imager Portfolio", but if what you say is the case, I could see things working out very similarly to that. In the book series, those imagers that are relatively unskilled are used to image into existence basic machine parts and materials that can be then used for more complex development. While the greater skilled imagers are used in espionage or other more complex pursuits. Basically elantrians that are not as proficient in drawing aons, can be provided this equations and they just follow the outlines mass producing them, while those more proficient handle more complex tasks such as the development of such equations. 

[CryoZenith]

On 06.02.2021 at 2:38 PM, KSub said:

So Brandon is saying the city represents a large series of 'code'? I guess that's what creates the Elantrians.

Quick tangent, but the city doesn't create the Elantrians. It only enhances them. Elantrians existed before the city existed, and they were the ones who built the city.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Weak Aons

Elantris is like a massive power conduit. It focuses the Dor, strengthening its power (or, rather, the power of the Aons to release it) in Arelon. This far away from Elantris, however, the Aons are about as powerful as they were before Raoden fixed Elantris.

If you consider it, it makes logical sense that the Aons would be tied to Elantris and Arelon, yet would work without them. The Aons had to exist before Elantris–otherwise, the original Elantrians wouldn't have known the shape to make the city. Their study of AonDor taught them a method for amplifying Aon power.

Elantris Annotations (May 12, 2006)

 

[cometaryorbit]

On 1/19/2022 at 11:42 AM, CryoZenith said:

Quick tangent, but the city doesn't create the Elantrians. It only enhances them. Elantrians existed before the city existed, and they were the ones who built the city.

 

Well, we know some kind of Elantrians/AonDor users existed before, to build the city. But the Shaod system could be an effect of the city- is there any Shaod equivalent for Forgery etc?

[CryoZenith]

As far as we've been told, to become a Forger you need to have bloodline connections to MaiPon, but it doesn't seem to be an ability you "snap" into. Presumably if you're born able to Forge, you can always Forge (well, technically. practically it seems to require a university level polymath education, so there's that). It's probably because Forgers are less Invested than most users of arcana, so you don't need to poke holes in their spiritweb for the ability to take.

Edited January 25, 2022 by CryoZenith

[cometaryorbit]

Do we know if other Selish systems like ChayShan or Bloodsealing need an equivalent?

I am not sure about Dakhor sacrifices. Are they a Snapping/Shaod equivalent (you need them to make the symbols magically effective) or more like a catalyst (anybody from the right country can do the magic but it needs human lives to work)?

I was thinking Elantrians were originally more like Forgers (much lower power, no glowing or extended life, etc.) but the city of Elantris made them way more powerful but limited the number of people via the Shaod (where before anyone in the region could learn how).

[EmulatonStromenkiin]

On 2/5/2021 at 5:32 AM, TheWanderer said:

Background

So, I have just finished a reread of Elantris and something caught my eye. When the city was in its full glory enchanted items based on Aons made by Elantrians were used for a plethora of things that made the city more comfortable, light, plumbing, etc. As I thought on this a theory came to my mind, now I could be completely off base so please bear with me. One aspect of these items that caught my attention were aons put in people's homes such as the one for light (Ashe). Given that many non elantrians also lived in the city I assume they were also capable of using the ashe aon to alter the lighting in their rooms. Otherwise they would have to call an elantrian in to do it for them, which sound very inconvenient. So I began to wonder if they could utilize these enchanted items could this be expanded upon further? I should specify I don't mean that those non elantrians made the aon, but rather were able to utilize what was already present as made by the Elantrians.

The Theory

Essentially I began to wonder what would happen if Sel advanced far enough to enter the computer age? Could computers that were crafted specifically by Elantrians then be used to form Aons? Potentially even Aons useable by anyone as the initial creation would have been done by an Elantrian. If this proves impossible, as the idea of normal people using the enchanted items is speculation on my part. There is still a possibility of Elantrians being able to rapidly expedite their casting via a form of automation.

Weak Points to The Theory

I am aware that while Elantrians could use tools such as quills, sticks, etc to make aons and they still functioned. Ultimately they needed to use their intent as part of the process. I also concede that I may be completely off base in assuming that the Aons will function without being directly made by an Elantrian. Either way I thought the idea was interesting and I hope you do as well.

Afterword

Thank you for bearing with me there. I would love any and all thoughts on the theory, and look forward to the discussion. 

If the computer had some way of conducting the investiture, maybe raysium? then it might be able to create a functioning aon regardless of original intent.

[Some Random Spren]

i think as long as the computer was made by an elantrian it would be able to make functioning aons while in the range of sel

(side note: i have a sort of theory that once an aon is made it can be taken offworld and will stay the same, judging by the fact that illusions apparently stick, however that theory wouldn't mean that the computer would be able to make them offworld)