danex Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) So this has been discussed multiple times before, but usually as an off-topic discussion in another thread, so I wanted to make an entire thread, just to see if we could come up with a final count for how many allomantic metals there actually are. First, the basics. We have our 16 base metals: Spoiler Steel Iron Pewter Tin Zinc Brass Copper Bronze Duralumin Aluminum Nicrosil Chromium Gold Electrum Cadium Bendalloy And then we have our 3 god metals: Edit: The other 14 godmetals are apparently also Allomantically viable. Spoiler Lerasium (Preservation’s Godmetal) Atium (Ruin’s Godmetal) Harmonium (Harmony’s Godmetal) Raysium (Odium’s Godmetal) Honor’s Godmetal (Tanavastium?) (Honorblades made from this.) Cultivation’s Godmetal (Koravellium...ium?) Devotion’s Godmetal (Aonaium) Dominion’s Godmetal (Skaium?) Endowment’s Godmetal (Edgilium?) Autonomy’s Godmetal (Bavadinium?) Ambition’s Godmetal (UliDaium?) Invention’s Godmetal Mercy’s Godmetal Valor’s Godmetal Whimsy’s Godmetal Unknown’s Godmetal Unknown’s Godmetal (one of these is also called Trellium, but we don’t know which one for certain.) Easy enough. The tricky part is when we start thinking about God Metal Alloys. Lerasium can be alloyed with any metal to make a metal that rewrites people's spiritwebs to become a misting that can burn that metal. It's a complete waste of Lerasium, but they're still allomantically viable, so they make the count. 16 more. Spoiler L-Steel L-Iron L-Pewter L-Tin L-Zinc L-Brass L-Copper L-Bronze L-Duralumin L-Aluminum L-Nicrosil L-Chromium L-Gold L-Electrum L-Cadium L-Bendalloy And then there's the possibility that Lerasium can be alloyed with the other two Godmetals to make a metal that turns people into Godmetal Mistings. Like an Atium Seer. This might not be true, as Lerasium and Atium are polar opposites, but I think it makes enough sense to make the list. Plus 2. Edit: If the other Godmetals are viable, then Lerasium should be able to make mistings for them too. 14 more. Spoiler L-Atium L-Harmonium (Could Lerasium be alloyed with itself to make a metal that allows people to burn Lerasium? L-Lerasium? Probably not, thats way too contradictory. And non-allomancers can already naturally burn Lerasium, so it wouldn't do anything.) L-Raysium L-Honor’s Godmetal L-Cultivation’s Godmetal L-Devotion’s Godmetal L-Dominion’s Godmetal L-Endowment’s Godmetal L-Autonomy’s Godmetal L-Ambition’s Godmetal L-Invention’s Godmetal L-Mercy’s Godmetal L-Valor’s Godmetal L-Whimsy’s Godmetal L-Unknown’s Godmetal L-Unknown’s Godmetal Then we have the Atium alloys. These are the most interesting, as it's actually an entire second list of 16 powers that we don't actually know anything about. This one WoB is basically all we have: Quote Maru Nui What would an atium-electrum alloy do in Allomancy? Brandon Sanderson The alloys of atium have various temporal effects. Footnote: The Allomancy chart poster reveals that atium alloys have various temporal and mental effects. Tor.com Q&A with Brandon Sanderson (Jan. 10, 2011) So that means we have 16 more that make the list. Spoiler A-Steel A-Iron A-Pewter A-Tin A-Zinc A-Brass A-Copper A-Bronze A-Duralumin A-Aluminum A-Nicrosil A-Chromium A-Gold (AKA Malatium, AKA The Eleventh Metal) A-Electrum A-Cadium A-Bendalloy And here's where things get into the really speculative. If each of those 16 is allomantically viable, we should be able to have mistings that can burn them, right? Well, that means Lerasium should be able to be alloyed with each of those to make a metal that makes a misting. So 16 more. Spoiler L-A-Steel L-A-Iron L-A-Pewter L-A-Tin L-A-Zinc L-A-Brass L-A-Copper L-A-Bronze L-A-Duralumin L-A-Aluminum L-A-Nicrosil L-A-Chromium L-A-Gold (Makes a Malatium misting) L-A-Electrum L-A-Cadium L-A-Bendalloy Edit: There are a couple of other Godmetal Alloys that should be counted. Plus 11. Spoiler There is a Godmetal that comes from the Dor, a combination of Dominion and Devotion. Dorium. Honorblades are made from 'Tanavastium' but regular radiant blades are made from an Honor Cultivation mix. Each order then has their own specific proportions, which makes them each individual metals. Windrunnerium Skybreakerium Dustbringerium Edgedancerium Truthwatcherium Lightweaverium Elsecallerium Willshaperium Stinewardium Bondsmithium All 11 of those could then be alloyed with Lerasium to make yet another batch of Misting Makers. Plus 11. Spoiler L-Dorium L-Windrunnerium L-Skybreakerium L-Dustbringerium L-Edgedancerium L-Truthwatcherium L-Lightweaverium L-Elsecallerium L-Willshaperium L-Stinewardium L-Bondsmithium And that's where I think we have to stop. Anything else would be way too speculative to make the count. But Harmonium can almost certainly be alloyed to do a bunch of things. So that brings the final, ultimate tally toooooooo Spoiler 119. The theoretical max was calculated to be around 561 by @Frustration Edit: Forgot to ever update the OP, but uh yeah, the number is a lot higher now. Like a lot. Just read the thread. Edited May 27, 2021 by Dannex 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 You missed the fact that other shardmetals can be alloyed with Lerasium, And presumably with each other, and with the base sixteen. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasmgoat Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 I believe that the shards of each order of Knight Radiants are allomantic. Adding 10 more metals 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danex Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Just now, Frustration said: You missed the fact that other shardmetals can be alloyed with Lerasium, And presumably with each other, and with the base sixteen. That’s verrrry speculative though, I didn’t think it was concrete enough to add to the count. We don’t even know if the other Godmetals are allomantically viable, we only know that they exist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Dannex said: That’s verrrry speculative though, I didn’t think it was concrete enough to add to the count. We don’t even know if the other Godmetals are allomantically viable, we only know that they exist. You can use them Spoiler Stormlightning If Hoid was to get his hands on "bavadinium," could he alloy it with lerasium and get Sand Mastery? Brandon Sanderson This is theoretically possible. FanX 2018 (Sept. 6, 2018) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danex Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, Frustration said: You can use them Hide contents Stormlightning If Hoid was to get his hands on "bavadinium," could he alloy it with lerasium and get Sand Mastery? Brandon Sanderson This is theoretically possible. FanX 2018 (Sept. 6, 2018) Hmmm fine, so that’s the 14 other godmetals, plus 14 more Lerasium Alloys. As for the Shardblade/Plate metals, I’ve found conflicting WoBs. Quote word_thief What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate? Brandon Sanderson A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen… General Twitter 2013 (Oct. 24, 2013) Quote Questioner If a Mistborn were to burn a piece of a Shardblade, what would happen? Brandon Sanderson This would be hard to make happen, but it would be possible. A Shardblade is going to act as, basically, an alloy of the god metal of Honor and so what would it do? RAFO, but it is possible and it would do something. It would not be inert. It would be Allomanticaly viable. Footnote: This question was also addressed here. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019) So we have “probably nothing” and “difficult to do, but still viable.” Not sure which definition to take. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Just now, Dannex said: So we have “probably nothing” and “difficult to do, but still viable.” Not sure which definition to take. The difficult but viable one came later, so that one overwrites the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasmgoat Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 and the probably nothing seems to imply something would happen if the allomancer had a tie to that investiture. Such as if they were a radiant, something would happen. At least, that's the way I view it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 So if we have 16 base metals 17 shard metals then by my caculation 16+17+(16x17)+256 256=16^2 then we have 561 viable metals without every possible shard metal combination or taking proportions into acount. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danex Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 I have updated the OP. Anything else? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Chasmgoat said: I believe that the shards of each order of Knight Radiants are allomantic. Adding 10 more metals Doesnt look like it, though there is some wriggle room in what he said. They are not qualitatively different metals and will not have noticeably different effects, but in-world scholars would be able to detect (if not quantify) a difference in the Honor<->Cultivation Ratio. Quote Alpharho The metal of Shardblades. Cultivationspren versus honorspren, for example. Are they different metals? Brandon Sanderson No, but good question. Alpharho Are all orders the same alloy, essentially? Brandon Sanderson Yes. There's a little asterisk on there, but not in the way you're asking... You could call those all the same alloy. Because the mixture to different spren is different, I think that you could argue that each one is its own alloy. Alpharho So, different proportions of tanavastium? Brandon Sanderson Yes, but it doesn't quite work that way with these magics, right? I'm going to say that's up to the individual cosmerologist who is in the world, the arcanist, defining it. You would be able to find enough differences to legitimately call them different alloys if you wanted to. Alpharho Would you say different ratios of the same two metals? Brandon Sanderson Yes. They are not going to have a third one in them, if that's what you're asking. But it doesn't quite work that way. Like, if you were going to take brass, you could measure the exact percentage. In this case, it is a thing; it's not like you could divide it up and split them apart, because they are a thing. And that thing would be called one thing. Alpharho But you won't say what that thing is called? Brandon Sanderson No, I won't say what that thing is called. But I think you and the 17th Sharders and folks that are dividing them would prefer to call them ten different things, and I think their nomenclature would be relevant. Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danex Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Well, in that very WoB he literally says Quote But I think you and the 17th Sharders and folks that are dividing them would prefer to call them ten different things, and I think their nomenclature would be relevant. So I listed them as 10 separate ones 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Frustration said: without every possible shard metal combination or taking proportions into acount. Not sure about proportions, we know allomantic metal should have one direct composition, in other case it simply wont work. Spoiler I think we can include another two mixed shardmetals, because weve seen mixed Lights So this gave us: Towerium/Siblingium/Urium Warium 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 On 2/4/2021 at 1:38 PM, Chasmgoat said: and the probably nothing seems to imply something would happen if the allomancer had a tie to that investiture. Such as if they were a radiant, something would happen. At least, that's the way I view it Yeah, I don't think the two WoBs are actually contradictory. Probably nothing, because your average Mistborn isn't set up to do it, but there is a difficult but viable way to make it do something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 On 2/4/2021 at 5:07 PM, Dannex said: Well, in that very WoB he literally says So I listed them as 10 separate ones Yeah, I am not sure if he is talking Allomantically or not with the "one thing" vs ten distinction. Alloy nomenclature in RL can be very loose... bronze is copper + tin... except when it's not (there's "arsenical bronze" which may or may not have any actual tin in it), iron ally nomenclature is complicated (steel is iron + carbon... plus a ton of other elements... and "cast iron" is also iron + carbon despite being called "iron" rather than "steel"). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) With Allomancy, alloy percentages must be exacting. There is no reason to believe this isn't the case for Godmetals too. Most likely only one percentage would be truly Allomantically viable to burn rather than all possible spren combinations Edited February 16, 2021 by StanLemon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 On 04/02/2021 at 8:01 PM, Dannex said: Edit: There are a couple of other Godmetal Alloys that should be counted. Plus 11. Reveal hidden contents There is a Godmetal that comes from the Dor, a combination of Dominion and Devotion. Dorium. Honorblades are made from 'Tanavastium' but regular radiant blades are made from an Honor Cultivation mix. Each order then has their own specific proportions, which makes them each individual metals. Windrunnerium Skybreakerium Dustbringerium Edgedancerium Truthwatcherium Lightweaverium Elsecallerium Willshaperium Stinewardium Bondsmithium It's likely Windrunners' and Edgedancers' shards are made of pure Tanavastium and Koreliaverum respectively. And whatever Glys's sword form is made of is probably viable too and probably not pure Raysium And then there's this WoB that I have no idea what to do about Quote 17th Shard Are there a limited amount of atium and lerasium alloys for each metal? Brandon Sanderson Hmm, yes…I suppose there would be but there are… 17th Shard More than sixteen? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, way more than sixteen. 17th Shard Oh wow. Okay. That's fascinating. More than sixteen and less than infinite. Brandon Sanderson Yes. 17th Shard Interview (Oct. 3, 2010) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 17 hours ago, mathiau said: It's likely Windrunners' and Edgedancers' shards are made of pure Tanavastium and Koreliaverum respectively. And whatever Glys's sword form is made of is probably viable too and probably not pure Raysium Yup. I'd bet Glys' blade form is a triple metal alloy. 17 hours ago, mathiau said: And then there's this WoB that I have no idea what to do about Can you somehow alloy Atium and Bronze and Gold (example) all together and have it be viable????? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said: Yup. I'd bet Glys' blade form is a triple metal alloy. That's a big point of contention actually, does Sja add, transform or both? And if she transform, did she transform the Honour part, the Cultivation part or both? We have arguments to say he's not pure Odium but we can't say much more Quote Can you somehow alloy Atium and Bronze and Gold (example) all together and have it be viable????? I don't know. The WoB ask about "atium and lerasium alloys for each metal" which if Brandon understood the question right (he sometimes doesn't) would imply you can make other Gold-Atium alloy than malatium. When I first read this WoB I had understood it as "you can make viable alloy between Atium and other metal than the 16", silver being the most likely to give a viable allow since we know it has magical properties 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, mathiau said: That's a big point of contention actually, does Sja add, transform or both? And if she transform, did she transform the Honour part, the Cultivation part or both? We have arguments to say he's not pure Odium but we can't say much more I don't know. The WoB ask about "atium and lerasium alloys for each metal" which if Brandon understood the question right (he sometimes doesn't) would imply you can make other Gold-Atium alloy than malatium. When I first read this WoB I had understood it as "you can make viable alloy between Atium and other metal than the 16", silver being the most likely to give a viable allow since we know it has magical properties Can you make alloys of god alloys with the base 16? so like... make Leratium and alloy that with Gold. eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter a username Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 Here's my count for burnable metals: 2^(16!)*17 16!: All godmetals' potential to be alloyed with other godmetals 2^16!: Factoring in whether the godmetals were alloyed or the Shards were *17: One for pure godmetal alloys, the others for alloys with the basic 16 metals I'd say how much it came out to, but I just got "undefined." (I'd guess this means overflow error.) And I don't even know how to factor in alloys of multi-Shard godmetals. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Enter a username said: Here's my count for burnable metals: 2^(16!)*17 16!: All godmetals' potential to be alloyed with other godmetals 2^16!: Factoring in whether the godmetals were alloyed or the Shards were *17: One for pure godmetal alloys, the others for alloys with the basic 16 metals I'd say how much it came out to, but I just got "undefined." (I'd guess this means overflow error.) And I don't even know how to factor in alloys of multi-Shard godmetals. Google calculator returns "Infinity" specifically. EDIT: FOUND A CALCULATOR THAT CAN HANDLE IT 1.8 × 106298387349264 ALMIGHTY AND HARMONY HOW STORMING BIG IS THAT Edited February 25, 2021 by Halyo_Alex Found the actual numerical value 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasmgoat Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, Enter a username said: Here's my count for burnable metals: 2^(16!)*17 16!: All godmetals' potential to be alloyed with other godmetals 2^16!: Factoring in whether the godmetals were alloyed or the Shards were *17: One for pure godmetal alloys, the others for alloys with the basic 16 metals I'd say how much it came out to, but I just got "undefined." (I'd guess this means overflow error.) And I don't even know how to factor in alloys of multi-Shard godmetals. I did this on a higher end online calculator and got 1114112 metals... that's a lot 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Chasmgoat said: I did this on a higher end online calculator and got 1114112 metals... that's a lot Did you forget to make the 16 factorial with the "!"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrac Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 With the "!" it gives us an undefined error. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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