Dannex

THE ULTIMATE METAL COUNT

85 posts in this topic

So this has been discussed multiple times before, but usually as an off-topic discussion in another thread, so I wanted to make an entire thread, just to see if we could come up with a final count for how many allomantic metals there actually are. First, the basics. 

We have our 16 base metals:

Spoiler

Steel
Iron
Pewter
Tin
Zinc
Brass
Copper
Bronze
Duralumin
Aluminum
Nicrosil
Chromium
Gold
Electrum
Cadium
Bendalloy

And then we have our 3 god metals: Edit: The other 14 godmetals are apparently also Allomantically viable.

Spoiler

Lerasium (Preservation’s Godmetal)
Atium (Ruin’s Godmetal)
Harmonium (Harmony’s Godmetal)
Raysium (Odium’s Godmetal)

Honor’s Godmetal (Tanavastium?) (Honorblades made from this.)
Cultivation’s Godmetal (Koravellium...ium?)
Devotion’s Godmetal (Aonaium)
Dominion’s Godmetal (Skaium?)
Endowment’s Godmetal (Edgilium?)
Autonomy’s Godmetal (Bavadinium?)
Ambition’s Godmetal (UliDaium?)
Invention’s Godmetal
Mercy’s Godmetal
Valor’s Godmetal
Whimsy’s Godmetal
Unknown’s Godmetal
Unknown’s Godmetal

(one of these is also called Trellium, but we don’t know which one for certain.)

Easy enough. The tricky part is when we start thinking about God Metal Alloys. 
Lerasium can be alloyed with any metal to make a metal that rewrites people's spiritwebs to become a misting that can burn that metal. It's a complete waste of Lerasium, but they're still allomantically viable, so they make the count. 16 more.

Spoiler

L-Steel
L-Iron
L-Pewter
L-Tin
L-Zinc
L-Brass
L-Copper
L-Bronze
L-Duralumin
L-Aluminum
L-Nicrosil
L-Chromium
L-Gold
L-Electrum
L-Cadium
L-Bendalloy

And then there's the possibility that Lerasium can be alloyed with the other two Godmetals to make a metal that turns people into Godmetal Mistings. Like an Atium Seer. This might not be true, as Lerasium and Atium are polar opposites, but I think it makes enough sense to make the list. Plus 2. Edit: If the other Godmetals are viable, then Lerasium should be able to make mistings for them too. 14 more.

Spoiler

L-Atium
L-Harmonium

(Could Lerasium be alloyed with itself to make a metal that allows people to burn Lerasium? L-Lerasium? Probably not, thats way too contradictory. And non-allomancers can already naturally burn Lerasium, so it wouldn't do anything.)

L-Raysium
L-Honor’s Godmetal
L-Cultivation’s Godmetal
L-Devotion’s Godmetal 
L-Dominion’s Godmetal 
L-Endowment’s Godmetal 
L-Autonomy’s Godmetal
L-Ambition’s Godmetal 
L-Invention’s Godmetal
L-Mercy’s Godmetal
L-Valor’s Godmetal
L-Whimsy’s Godmetal
L-Unknown’s Godmetal
L-Unknown’s Godmetal

Then we have the Atium alloys. These are the most interesting, as it's actually an entire second list of 16 powers that we don't actually know anything about. This one WoB is basically all we have:

Quote

Maru Nui

What would an atium-electrum alloy do in Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

The alloys of atium have various temporal effects.

Footnote: The Allomancy chart poster reveals that atium alloys have various temporal and mental effects.
Tor.com Q&A with Brandon Sanderson (Jan. 10, 2011)

So that means we have 16 more that make the list. 

Spoiler

A-Steel
A-Iron
A-Pewter
A-Tin
A-Zinc
A-Brass
A-Copper
A-Bronze
A-Duralumin
A-Aluminum
A-Nicrosil
A-Chromium
A-Gold (AKA Malatium, AKA The Eleventh Metal)
A-Electrum
A-Cadium
A-Bendalloy

And here's where things get into the really speculative. If each of those 16 is allomantically viable, we should be able to have mistings that can burn them, right? Well, that means Lerasium should be able to be alloyed with each of those to make a metal that makes a misting. So 16 more. 

Spoiler

L-A-Steel
L-A-Iron
L-A-Pewter
L-A-Tin
L-A-Zinc
L-A-Brass
L-A-Copper
L-A-Bronze
L-A-Duralumin
L-A-Aluminum
L-A-Nicrosil
L-A-Chromium
L-A-Gold (Makes a Malatium misting)
L-A-Electrum
L-A-Cadium
L-A-Bendalloy

Edit: There are a couple of other Godmetal Alloys that should be counted. Plus 11. 

Spoiler

There is a Godmetal that comes from the Dor, a combination of Dominion and Devotion.
Dorium. 

Honorblades are made from 'Tanavastium' but regular radiant blades are made from an Honor Cultivation mix. Each order then has their own specific proportions, which makes them each individual metals. 
Windrunnerium
Skybreakerium
Dustbringerium
Edgedancerium
Truthwatcherium
Lightweaverium
Elsecallerium
Willshaperium
Stinewardium
Bondsmithium

All 11 of those could then be alloyed with Lerasium to make yet another batch of Misting Makers. Plus 11.

Spoiler

L-Dorium
L-Windrunnerium
L-Skybreakerium
L-Dustbringerium
L-Edgedancerium
L-Truthwatcherium
L-Lightweaverium
L-Elsecallerium
L-Willshaperium
L-Stinewardium
L-Bondsmithium

And that's where I think we have to stop. Anything else would be way too speculative to make the count. But Harmonium can almost certainly be alloyed to do a bunch of things. So that brings the final, ultimate tally toooooooo

Spoiler

119.

The theoretical max was calculated to be around 561 by @Frustration

 

Edited by Dannex
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You missed the fact that other shardmetals can be alloyed with Lerasium, 

And presumably with each other,

and with the base sixteen.

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I believe that the shards of each order of Knight Radiants are allomantic. Adding 10 more metals

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Just now, Frustration said:

You missed the fact that other shardmetals can be alloyed with Lerasium, 

And presumably with each other,

and with the base sixteen.

That’s verrrry speculative though, I didn’t think it was concrete enough to add to the count. We don’t even know if the other Godmetals are allomantically viable, we only know that they exist.

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1 minute ago, Dannex said:

That’s verrrry speculative though, I didn’t think it was concrete enough to add to the count. We don’t even know if the other Godmetals are allomantically viable, we only know that they exist.

You can use them

Spoiler

Stormlightning

If Hoid was to get his hands on "bavadinium," could he alloy it with lerasium and get Sand Mastery?

Brandon Sanderson

This is theoretically possible.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 6, 2018)

 

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7 minutes ago, Frustration said:

You can use them

  Hide contents

Stormlightning

If Hoid was to get his hands on "bavadinium," could he alloy it with lerasium and get Sand Mastery?

Brandon Sanderson

This is theoretically possible.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 6, 2018)

 

Hmmm fine, so that’s the 14 other godmetals, plus 14 more Lerasium Alloys. 

As for the Shardblade/Plate metals, I’ve found conflicting WoBs.

Quote

word_thief

What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen…

General Twitter 2013 (Oct. 24, 2013)
Quote

Questioner

If a Mistborn were to burn a piece of a Shardblade, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

This would be hard to make happen, but it would be possible. A Shardblade is going to act as, basically, an alloy of the god metal of Honor and so  what would it do? RAFO, but it is possible and it would do something. It would not be inert. It would be Allomanticaly viable.

Footnote: This question was also addressed here.
Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 So we have “probably nothing” and “difficult to do, but still viable.” Not sure which definition to take.

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Just now, Dannex said:

 So we have “probably nothing” and “difficult to do, but still viable.” Not sure which definition to take.

The difficult but viable one came later, so that one overwrites the other.

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and the probably nothing seems to imply something would happen if the allomancer had a tie to that investiture. Such as if they were a radiant, something would happen. At least, that's the way I view it

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So if we have 16 base metals

17 shard metals

then by my caculation

16+17+(16x17)+256

256=16^2

then we have 561 viable metals

without every possible shard metal combination

or taking proportions into acount.

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I have updated the OP. Anything else?

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1 hour ago, Chasmgoat said:

I believe that the shards of each order of Knight Radiants are allomantic. Adding 10 more metals

Doesnt look like it, though there is some wriggle room in what he said. They are not qualitatively different metals and will not have noticeably different effects, but in-world scholars would be able to detect (if not quantify) a difference in the Honor<->Cultivation Ratio.   

 

Quote

 

Alpharho

The metal of Shardblades. Cultivationspren versus honorspren, for example. Are they different metals?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but good question.

Alpharho

Are all orders the same alloy, essentially?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. There's a little asterisk on there, but not in the way you're asking... You could call those all the same alloy. Because the mixture to different spren is different, I think that you could argue that each one is its own alloy.

Alpharho

So, different proportions of tanavastium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but it doesn't quite work that way with these magics, right? I'm going to say that's up to the individual cosmerologist who is in the world, the arcanist, defining it. You would be able to find enough differences to legitimately call them different alloys if you wanted to.

Alpharho

Would you say different ratios of the same two metals?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. They are not going to have a third one in them, if that's what you're asking. But it doesn't quite work that way. Like, if you were going to take brass, you could measure the exact percentage. In this case, it is a thing; it's not like you could divide it up and split them apart, because they are a thing. And that thing would be called one thing.

Alpharho

But you won't say what that thing is called?

Brandon Sanderson

No, I won't say what that thing is called. But I think you and the 17th Sharders and folks that are dividing them would prefer to call them ten different things, and I think their nomenclature would be relevant.

Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018)

 

 
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Well, in that very WoB he literally says

Quote

But I think you and the 17th Sharders and folks that are dividing them would prefer to call them ten different things, and I think their nomenclature would be relevant.

So I listed them as 10 separate ones :P

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4 hours ago, Frustration said:

without every possible shard metal combination

or taking proportions into acount.

Not sure about proportions, we know allomantic metal should have one direct composition, in other case it simply wont work.

Spoiler

I think we can include another two mixed shardmetals, because weve seen mixed Lights

So this gave us:

Towerium/Siblingium/Urium

Warium

 

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On 2/4/2021 at 1:38 PM, Chasmgoat said:

and the probably nothing seems to imply something would happen if the allomancer had a tie to that investiture. Such as if they were a radiant, something would happen. At least, that's the way I view it

Yeah, I don't think the two WoBs are actually contradictory.

Probably nothing, because your average Mistborn isn't set up to do it, but there is a difficult but viable way to make it do something.

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On 2/4/2021 at 5:07 PM, Dannex said:

Well, in that very WoB he literally says

So I listed them as 10 separate ones :P

Yeah, I am not sure if he is talking Allomantically or not with the "one thing" vs ten distinction.

Alloy nomenclature in RL can be very loose... bronze is copper + tin... except when it's not (there's "arsenical bronze" which may or may not have any actual tin in it), iron ally nomenclature is complicated (steel is iron + carbon... plus a ton of other elements... and "cast iron" is also iron + carbon despite being called "iron" rather than "steel").

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With Allomancy, alloy percentages must be exacting. There is no reason to believe this isn't the case for Godmetals too. Most likely only one percentage would be truly Allomantically viable to burn rather than all possible spren combinations 

Edited by StanLemon
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On 04/02/2021 at 8:01 PM, Dannex said:

Edit: There are a couple of other Godmetal Alloys that should be counted. Plus 11. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

There is a Godmetal that comes from the Dor, a combination of Dominion and Devotion.
Dorium. 

Honorblades are made from 'Tanavastium' but regular radiant blades are made from an Honor Cultivation mix. Each order then has their own specific proportions, which makes them each individual metals. 
Windrunnerium
Skybreakerium
Dustbringerium
Edgedancerium
Truthwatcherium
Lightweaverium
Elsecallerium
Willshaperium
Stinewardium
Bondsmithium

It's likely Windrunners' and Edgedancers' shards are made of pure Tanavastium and Koreliaverum respectively. And whatever Glys's sword form is made of is probably viable too and probably not pure Raysium

And then there's this WoB that I have no idea what to do about

Quote

17th Shard

Are there a limited amount of atium and lerasium alloys for each metal?

Brandon Sanderson

Hmm, yes…I suppose there would be but there are…

17th Shard

More than sixteen?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, way more than sixteen.

17th Shard

Oh wow. Okay. That's fascinating. More than sixteen and less than infinite.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

17th Shard Interview (Oct. 3, 2010)
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17 hours ago, mathiau said:

It's likely Windrunners' and Edgedancers' shards are made of pure Tanavastium and Koreliaverum respectively. And whatever Glys's sword form is made of is probably viable too and probably not pure Raysium

Yup. I'd bet Glys' blade form is a triple metal alloy.

17 hours ago, mathiau said:

And then there's this WoB that I have no idea what to do about

Can you somehow alloy Atium and Bronze and Gold (example) all together and have it be viable?????

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9 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Yup. I'd bet Glys' blade form is a triple metal alloy.

That's a big point of contention actually, does Sja add, transform or both? And if she transform, did she transform the Honour part, the Cultivation part or both? We have arguments to say he's not pure Odium but we can't say much more

Quote

Can you somehow alloy Atium and Bronze and Gold (example) all together and have it be viable?????

I don't know. The WoB ask about  "atium and lerasium alloys for each metal" which if Brandon understood the question right (he sometimes doesn't) would imply you can make other Gold-Atium alloy than malatium.

When I first read this WoB I had understood it as "you can make viable alloy between Atium and other metal than the 16", silver being the most likely to give a viable allow since we know it has magical properties

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19 minutes ago, mathiau said:

That's a big point of contention actually, does Sja add, transform or both? And if she transform, did she transform the Honour part, the Cultivation part or both? We have arguments to say he's not pure Odium but we can't say much more

I don't know. The WoB ask about  "atium and lerasium alloys for each metal" which if Brandon understood the question right (he sometimes doesn't) would imply you can make other Gold-Atium alloy than malatium.

When I first read this WoB I had understood it as "you can make viable alloy between Atium and other metal than the 16", silver being the most likely to give a viable allow since we know it has magical properties

Can you make alloys of god alloys with the base 16? so like... make Leratium and alloy that with Gold. eh?

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Here's my count for burnable metals: 2^(16!)*17

16!: All godmetals' potential to be alloyed with other godmetals

2^16!: Factoring in whether the godmetals were alloyed or the Shards were

*17: One for pure godmetal alloys, the others for alloys with the basic 16 metals

I'd say how much it came out to, but I just got "undefined." (I'd guess this means overflow error.)

And I don't even know how to factor in alloys of multi-Shard godmetals.

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9 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

Here's my count for burnable metals: 2^(16!)*17

16!: All godmetals' potential to be alloyed with other godmetals

2^16!: Factoring in whether the godmetals were alloyed or the Shards were

*17: One for pure godmetal alloys, the others for alloys with the basic 16 metals

I'd say how much it came out to, but I just got "undefined." (I'd guess this means overflow error.)

And I don't even know how to factor in alloys of multi-Shard godmetals.

Google calculator returns "Infinity" specifically. :D

EDIT: FOUND A CALCULATOR THAT CAN HANDLE IT

1.8 × 106298387349264

ALMIGHTY AND HARMONY HOW STORMING BIG IS THAT

Edited by Halyo_Alex
Found the actual numerical value
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8 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

Here's my count for burnable metals: 2^(16!)*17

16!: All godmetals' potential to be alloyed with other godmetals

2^16!: Factoring in whether the godmetals were alloyed or the Shards were

*17: One for pure godmetal alloys, the others for alloys with the basic 16 metals

I'd say how much it came out to, but I just got "undefined." (I'd guess this means overflow error.)

And I don't even know how to factor in alloys of multi-Shard godmetals.

I did this on a higher end online calculator and got 1114112 metals... that's a lot

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1 minute ago, Chasmgoat said:

I did this on a higher end online calculator and got 1114112 metals... that's a lot

Did you forget to make the 16 factorial with the "!"?

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With the "!" it gives us an undefined error.

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