Popular Post Frustration Posted February 4, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) I was asking my followers about what theory I should do next when @Dannex suggested Ba-Ado-Mishram Which in my usuall style got me to go over everything we know for certain about BAM. And while I didn't get a theory on powers, I think I know where she is. In order to get to where Mishram is currently located we must first learn about the people who captured her, a quick read of the Gemstone Archive reveals two things related to BAM. 1. BAM had connected to the "Parsh" drawer 30-20 fourth emerald Spoiler "Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her." And something I think to be overlooked yet of more note 2.BAM's forces were going somewhere drawer 19-2 third Topaz Spoiler "The enemy makes another push toward Feverstone Keep. I wish we knew what it was that had them so interested in that area. Could they be intent on capturing Rall Elorim?" Rall Elorim, is the only thing that this Radiant can think of after what appears to be multiple attempts to take Feverstone, I think it safe to assume this is the case. Now Rall Elorim is an intresting place, but at the same time very vauge, it has yet to be shown, in fact we only know a few things about it 1. It's called the city of Shadows for a reason, and Brandon won't tell us Spoiler Blightsong Can you give us any information on Rall Elorim? Brandon Sanderson Uhhhm, no other than its called City of Shadows for a reason. OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016) 2. It has an Oathgate 3. and it was one of the First places Odium took on Roshar. Now the only reason I could think of for a city to be called the City of Shadows was an unmade and currently only three are unaccounted for Chemorish Dai-Gonalthis and Ba-Ado-Mishram One of the first two was at the Davar household and one was so devestating that they caused the scouring of Aimia, but nothing like that has happened to either place, and was maybe in Shinovar. Another thing is the term Shadows, Shadows are created by a mixing of light and darkness, Light that is dark, or Voidlight, which happens to be something BAM could create. And nothing but shadows has been made known to us, almost as if the unmade were limited, or bound in some way. On top of that Odium's quick arival to Rall Elorim I believe is because he knows BAM is there, but has so far been unable to free her. Why? becasue his forces have only looked in the Physical realm. Knowing that Unmade have a large pressence in the CR Spoiler Chaos There has been a question in the fandom ever since [Rhythm of War] Part One, where we learned that the Thrill got tossed in the ocean. Brandon Sanderson They, at Jasnah's suggestion (which came through Hoid), locked it in an aluminum box and threw it in the ocean. The argument for this being that anywhere they could hide it, the enemy could get to. And an Unmade would be pretty easy to find in the Cognitive Realm. You can't hide an Unmade very easily. Aluminum's gonna help a ton with doing that. So, what you have to do is try to make it as inaccessible as possible. And the most inaccessible thing they could do is lock it in an aluminum box and throw it in the ocean. If they had kept it anywhere in the city or what-not, then the enemy would have been able to find it very easily, even inside an aluminum box. This method was their best guess at being able to keep it out of the enemy's hands. It is not a great solution, unfortunately. There just isn't one that they could find. As we talk about a certain other Unmade who is somewhere locked in a gemstone that might come up in the next book maybe, we'll talk more about this. Shardcast Interview (Jan. 23, 2021) The recreance Radiants knew this and did something clever, just like when a human is physically brought into the cognitive their CA is replaced so they brought the gem into the CR to hide BAM's cognitive presence. Aluminum gives an additional layer of protection and then place it in a convienent nearby city with access to the CR so as to hide any other oddities from the cognitive side, have the sibling keep the Oathgates from allowing CR travel, from any place but the Horneater peaks which is almost acrossed the enite continent, and you have yourself an airtight prision for an unmade. In addition WoK prime spoilers Spoiler There is something the Heralds put under Rall Elorim that they wanted to remain secret. EDIT: This was later revealed to be an unmade Spoiler Ezio della Torre Was Teft's death part of your plan from the book's inception or series's inception, or did you decide his fate while writing Rhythm of War? Brandon Sanderson Teft's fate was decided pretty early on, but these sorts of things I do leave wiggle room on. When you read Teft's first appearance—it's in Mythwalker, my ninth book that never got finished—his appearance in that book was built around this kind of character arc that eventually happened. This was baked into the original idea for Stormlight once I brought over Bridge Four and once I stuck Teft inBridge Four, from Mythwalker. But I do remain pretty flexible on these things. That is one that turned out working really well, and happening the way I'd intended for it to happen from the beginning. But... I mean, if you've read Way of Kings Prime, you'll know that there was a point in the outlining process, and even in writing that book, where Dalinar killed Elhokar, rather than him being killed by Moash. So, you can see that these things do change, these things bounce around, but yes, the Moash betrayal and the him killing Teft was an original <incarnation> of Way of Kings. So the original 2010 version of Way of Kings, it was part of that outline. There are things that have changed though, over the years. A big one's, of course, a lot of Adolin's arc is not in that. I go back to that one because Adolin was involved, but he was a much smaller character than he ended up being. And Adolin changing has caused all kinds of ripples through everything in large measure. For instance, all of the stuff with Maya was not in the original outline. This is stuff that I developed over time because I was not planning Adolin to have as big a role in the series as he ended up having. That's a good example of things I've changed over time. A lot of the Cosmere-aware stuff, I didn't know how much I would push on that, and it turns out I've pushed further than in the outlines I originally thought I would. Because when I was starting this, I still didn't know if people would jump onboard with this as much as they have. [...] Reading Way of Kings Prime is a great way to see how things have changed since. The big changes you will see there between 2002 and 2010... I guess I wrote the book in 2009, so... in those seven years, you can see a lot of the transformations that the book and the world and the series went through. It's kind of nice. Those of you who've read it recently can probably remember more about what's changed than I do. I come back to the big ones, like that book had Unmade spiked with crystalline spikes, in the basement of the version of Urithiru before I changed it to what it is now, and that is just no longer in the books, right. Unmade getting spiked and being freed by spikes to the wall is not a thing. I'm sticking them in gemstones now, right, instead of spiking them to walls. I felt like the whole Hemalurgy thing we've covered well enough. But that was in the 2002 version. *Adam goes on a diatribe about how he'd like to see fanart of this* It was ten spikes too. YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021) TLDR BAM is in the cognitive realm around Rall Elorim Edited February 2, 2023 by Frustration 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Do you remember which chapter of WoK Prime it was where that was mentioned? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Honorless said: Do you remember which chapter of WoK Prime it was where that was mentioned? I do not, but it was when Spoiler Taln had just lead Jasnah through the tunnels, he thinks something along the lines of "the tunnels sereved another purpose, they hid something under the city" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Frustration said: Now the only reason I could think of for a city to be called the City of Shadows was an unmade Well, could also be that it could be this place Kaladin saw when riding the storm: Quote A city where people lived in gigantic, hollowed-out stalactites hanging beneath a titanic sheltered ridge. That would probably be very shadowy. Of course, an Unmade could be possible too, and it would likely be close to where Mishram was captured, so she could very well be there. It seems a reasonable location to me. Just pointing out it's not necessarily the only reason it could be named that. 1 hour ago, Frustration said: WoK prime spoilers Hide contents There is something the Heralds put under Rall Elorim that they wanted to remain secret. Spoiler Wasn't Ral Eram more like an early version of Urithiru in that version, and the name got changed? Anyway, imo, the thing behind the door's a Dawnshard, or an early Cosmere equivalent. Quote Jasnah sighed, following him, last in line. She paused a second later, however, as she noticed a side passage. It appeared to be the only one in the corridor. She held her lantern high, revealing a door in the distance. It was beautiful. Worked of metal and gemstones, it sparkled in her lanternlight. She could make out the pattern of the Double Eye set in its face, marked by ten massive gemstones at the Pole positions. Even from the distance, she could hear them humming slightly in her mind. “Come on,” Taln said, appearing again at her side. “What is that?” she asked. Taln paused, his eyes quiet as he regarded the door. “It is nothing,” he finally said. “Come.” 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: Well, could also be that it could be this place Kaladin saw when riding the storm: That would probably be very shadowy. Of course, an Unmade could be possible too, and it would likely be close to where Mishram was captured, so she could very well be there. It seems a reasonable location to me. Just pointing out it's not necessarily the only reason it could be named that. Reveal hidden contents Wasn't Ral Eram more like an early version of Urithiru in that version, and the name got changed? Anyway, imo, the thing behind the door's a Dawnshard, or an early Cosmere equivalent. Thanks, I had forgoten about that place. and thanks for the quote to, I suppose thats possible, Spoiler And yes it is early Urithiru, it's name is so similar I'm inclined to believe there is a realtion of more than an Oathgate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Frustration said: it's name is so similar I'm inclined to believe there is a realtion of more than an Oathgate. That might just be a reuse of a name he liked, similar to "Kkoloss" from Mythwalker becoming the word "koloss", despite the two things being nothing alike, or (to take things moved from one unpublished work to another) the name "amberite" for a material being moved from Mythwalker to Aether, despite the two materials being different. (Mythwalker was cannibalized for a lot, lol.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Just now, LewsTherinTelescope said: That might just be a reuse of a name he liked, similar to "Kkoloss" from Mythwalker becoming the word "koloss", despite the two things being nothing alike, or (to take things moved from one unpublished work to another) the name "amberite" for a material being moved from Mythwalker to Aether, despite the two materials being different. (Mythwalker was cannibalized for a lot, lol.) Fair enough, but it is just a revision of the same story, rather than a different one 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Frustration said: Fair enough, but it is just a revision of the same story, rather than a different one Eh.... sort of. Prime is a very different story, even if there's some relation. Spoiler I don't think the Recreance, False Desolation, or even Unmade were ever mentioned in Prime, were they? The Knights Epellion seemingly sorta just... stopped existing when the kingdoms turned on one another. The powers were also tied to the royal lines of the nations. So the scenario was completely different. I mean, spren didn't even exist! Edited February 4, 2021 by LewsTherinTelescope formatting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Just now, LewsTherinTelescope said: Eh.... sort of. Prime is a very different story, even if there's some relation. I wouldn't say different story altogether, but you are right it was a very different beast. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 4 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: Eh.... sort of. Prime is a very different story, even if there's some relation. I think you meant to spoil the second part instead of quoting it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, mathiau said: I think you meant to spoil the second part instead of quoting it Oops, yep! Fixed, thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danex Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Seems like a pretty feasible theory. Glad I could be the one to inspire it I like how you managed to use WoK prime as evidence, even though it seems like Brandon didn’t want us to do that. Didn’t he only release the book when he finally thought there wouldn’t really be any new info? Well looks like you found some. 12 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: Well, could also be that it could be this place Kaladin saw when riding the storm: Quote A city where people lived in gigantic, hollowed-out stalactites hanging beneath a titanic sheltered ridge. That would probably be very shadowy. I hope this is the case, I just reread that scene, and that description in particular made me a bit surprised. Like, we have a city as crazy as that, and we haven’t seen it in four entire books???? If Brandon is holding out on a setting that cool, it’s gotta be important later. I wonder if we could use the rest of Kal’s storm vision to try and place that city on the map, see if it lines up with Rall Elorim. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draigwyrdd Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 That's an interesting thought. I could buy into it! Rall Elorim has been set up as something interesting, so there is definitely a thing of some significance there. Perhaps it is BAM, and the difficulty in freeing her will come not from finding her necessarily, but in getting to her. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Dannex said: I wonder if we could use the rest of Kal’s storm vision to try and place that city on the map, see if it lines up with Rall Elorim He generally seems to be moving east to west in the vision. Prior, he was seemingly likely in Tashikk, Azir, and Babatharnam, so Rall Elorim could match up, though it could be elsewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 On 2/4/2021 at 6:35 AM, Frustration said: Chemorish Dai-Gonalthis and Ba-Ado-Mishram One of the first two was at the Davar household Uh... where did we learn this? I have a irrational interest in Chemorish 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Ashbringer said: Uh... where did we learn this? I have a irrational interest in Chemorish here Spoiler Stormlightning You told someone that Nan Balat likes to hurt things. Like, a supernatural tendency to hurt things. Brandon Sanderson It's more along the lines of, "He has suffered some...enhancement of a psychological issue through supernatural effects." Stormlightning It's not an Unmade thing? Brandon Sanderson RAFO! Good question! That's basically a confirmation, isn't it? *teasing laugh* FanX 2018 (Sept. 7, 2018) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, Frustration said: here Huh. Do we know it's an Unmade we haven't found yet? I remember reading that (or something similar) but I thought it was just the Thrill. ... I guess the Thrill was in the Shattered Plains while Nan Balat was in Jah Keved. So who knows. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, Ashbringer said: Huh. Do we know it's an Unmade we haven't found yet? I remember reading that (or something similar) but I thought it was just the Thrill. ... I guess the Thrill was in the Shattered Plains while Nan Balat was in Jah Keved. So who knows. Nergural - Alethkar Moeloch - Kharbranth Re-Shephir - Urithiru Ashertmarn/Sja-Anat inactive Yelig nar - unbonded BAM -bound(Rall Elorim) Chemorish/Dai-Gonalthis unacounted for 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Frustration said: Chemorish/Dai-Gonalthis unacounted for Wasn't one of them in Shinovar? Might be Ashertmarn though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 On 2/4/2021 at 9:35 AM, Frustration said: I was asking my followers about what theory I should do next when @Dannex suggested Ba-Ado-Mishram Which in my usuall style got me to go over everything we know for certain about BAM. And while I didn't get a theory on powers, I think I know where she is. In order to get to where Mishram is currently located we must first learn about the people who captured her, a quick read of the Gemstone Archive reveals two things related to BAM. 1. BAM had connected to the "Parsh" drawer 30-20 fourth emerald Reveal hidden contents "Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her." And something I think to be overlooked yet of more note 2.BAM's forces were going somewhere drawer 19-2 third Topaz Reveal hidden contents "The enemy makes another push toward Feverstone Keep. I wish we knew what it was that had them so interested in that area. Could they be intent on capturing Rall Elorim?" Rall Elorim, is the only thing that this Radiant can think of after what appears to be multiple attempts to take Feverstone, I think it safe to assume this is the case. Now Rall Elorim is an intresting place, but at the same time very vauge, it has yet to be shown, in fact we only know a few things about it 1. It's called the city of Shadows for a reason, and Brandon won't tell us Reveal hidden contents Blightsong Can you give us any information on Rall Elorim? Brandon Sanderson Uhhhm, no other than its called City of Shadows for a reason. OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016) 2. It has an Oathgate 3. and it was one of the First places Odium took on Roshar. Now the only reason I could think of for a city to be called the City of Shadows was an unmade and currently only three are unaccounted for Chemorish Dai-Gonalthis and Ba-Ado-Mishram One of the first two was at the Davar household and one was so devestating that they caused the scouring of Aimia, but nothing like that has happened to either place, and was maybe in Shinovar but that came from Ishar and is to be questioned. Another thing is the term Shadows, Shadows are created by a mixing of light and darkness, Light that is dark, or Voidlight, which happens to be something BAM could create. And nothing but shadows has been made known to us, almost as if the unmade were limited, or bound in some way. On top of that Odium's quick arival to Rall Elorim I believe is because he knows BAM is there, but has so far been unable to free her. Why? becasue his forces have only looked in the Physical realm. Knowing that Unmade have a large pressence in the CR Reveal hidden contents Chaos There has been a question in the fandom ever since [Rhythm of War] Part One, where we learned that the Thrill got tossed in the ocean. Brandon Sanderson They, at Jasnah's suggestion (which came through Hoid), locked it in an aluminum box and threw it in the ocean. The argument for this being that anywhere they could hide it, the enemy could get to. And an Unmade would be pretty easy to find in the Cognitive Realm. You can't hide an Unmade very easily. Aluminum's gonna help a ton with doing that. So, what you have to do is try to make it as inaccessible as possible. And the most inaccessible thing they could do is lock it in an aluminum box and throw it in the ocean. If they had kept it anywhere in the city or what-not, then the enemy would have been able to find it very easily, even inside an aluminum box. This method was their best guess at being able to keep it out of the enemy's hands. It is not a great solution, unfortunately. There just isn't one that they could find. As we talk about a certain other Unmade who is somewhere locked in a gemstone that might come up in the next book maybe, we'll talk more about this. Shardcast Interview (Jan. 23, 2021) The recreance Radiants knew this and did something clever, just like when a human is physically brought into the cognitive their CA is replaced so they brought the gem into the CR to hide BAM's cognitive presence. Aluminum gives an additional layer of protection and then place it in a convienent nearby city with access to the CR so as to hide any other oddities from the cognitive side, have the sibling keep the Oathgates from allowing CR travel, from anyplace but the Horneater peaks which is almost accrossed the enite continent, and you have yourself an airtight prision for an unmade. In addition WoK prime spoilers Reveal hidden contents There is something the Heralds put under Rall Elorim that they wanted to remain secret. TLDR BAM is in the cognitive realm around Rall Elorim If the enemy was intent on capturing rall elorim the obviously BAM has not yet been captured as that would have made them the parsh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, mathiau said: Wasn't one of them in Shinovar? Might be Ashertmarn though That was imformation from Ishar, so while possible, should be taken with a grain of salt. 1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said: If the enemy was intent on capturing rall elorim the obviously BAM has not yet been captured as that would have made them the parsh So, when BAM was captured(2,000 years ago) they were trying to capture Rall Elorim. In OB one of the first cities to fall to Odium was Rall Elorim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, Frustration said: So, when BAM was captured(2,000 years ago) they were trying to capture Rall Elorim. In OB one of the first cities to fall to Odium was Rall Elorim My point is that they tried to capture it before BAM was captured so there’s no reason to think that she is there 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Oooooh. I wonder if Odium purposefully didn't free Mishram in order to keep... whatever the heck happened when Mishram got captured from undoing itself. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, Bejardin1250 said: My point is that they tried to capture it before BAM was captured so there’s no reason to think that she is there The idea of that theory was they didn't move her and made protections for her gemstone at the same place they captured her 1 minute ago, Ashbringer said: Oooooh. I wonder if Odium purposefully didn't free Mishram in order to keep... whatever the heck happened when Mishram got captured from undoing itself. And possibly to punish her for acting like a God 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, Bejardin1250 said: My point is that they tried to capture it before BAM was captured so there’s no reason to think that she is there She was captured near there, as Feverstone was where the WIndrunners and Stonewards broke their oaths, and it'd be odd for them to break their oaths before having secured Mishram, so her still being nearby isn't too much of a strech. 2 minutes ago, Ashbringer said: Oooooh. I wonder if Odium purposefully didn't free Mishram in order to keep... whatever the heck happened when Mishram got captured from undoing itself. That could be the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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