[Theory] Taln Wasn't the Herald Who Broke; It Was Chanarach

[teknopathetic]

7 hours ago, mathiau said:

Shallan's mother's eyes are green (RoW 93) but one the official artwork for Chanarach her eyes are blue.

Interestingly, Shallan's eyes are light blue as well. I also believe Lin Davar's eyes are blue. 

One thing to note is that using stormlight changes the eyecolour of people:

"After Kaladin says the Third Ideal of the Immortal Words and recognizes himself as a true Knight Radiant, his eyes turn pale blue, lighter than any king.They stay pale blue for several hours after summoning Syl before returning to brown, and Kaladin has to summon Syl several times a day to keep his eye blue." - Coppermind

Could it be that the Herald's eye color changed when she lost her Honourblade? Taln has brown eyes, but it seems unlikey he would have been a darkeyes during the final desolation. He is associated with amber, but maybe that was the stonewards and not necessarily him. Soimething to consder for sure! 

A second possibility is that Chana changes her eye colour to disguise herself (similar to what a Returned can do). We still don't know what innate power the heralds have. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by teknopathetic

[+honorblades]

"The world ended, and Shallan was to blame."

- Words of Radiance, Chapter 10. 



Great theory. 

[teknopathetic]

52 minutes ago, honorblades said:

"The world ended, and Shallan was to blame."

- Words of Radiance, Chapter 10. 



Great theory. 

*Audible Gasp*

I added this to the main post and credited you! This is said right before "Red carpet turned white". Amazing!

Edited February 4, 2021 by teknopathetic

[+honorblades]

On 2/3/2021 at 10:40 PM, teknopathetic said:

*Audible Gasp*

I added this to the main post and credited you! 

Thank you! I started a twitter bot for quotes from the cosmere, this one popped into my head immediately

Edited March 31, 2022 by honorblades

[mathiau]

12 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

As for eye colour, does honourblade-surgebinding change a herald's eyecolour? If a herald lost their honourblade, would their eyes go back?

Taln has brown eyes now, so I wonder if his honourblade (or using stormlight) would change them back? 

Taln had his honourblade bounded at the time. And Chanarach's eye's should have been ruby red if her honourblade changed their colours.

12 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Interestingly, Shallan's eyes are blue as well.

One thing to note is that using stormlight changes the eyecolour of people. Could it be that the Herald's eye color changed when she lost her Honourblade? Taln has brown eyes, but it seems unlikey he would have been a darkeyes during the final desolation. 

A second possibility is that Chana changes her eye colour to disguise herself (similar to what a Returned can do). We still don't know what innate power the heralds have. 

It's not using stormlight that change eye colour it's using a shardblade. Pretty sure the reason Shallan's eyes are still blue is the modified eye colour only become hereditary after oath 5 and she's oath 3 (she technically said the 4th but didn't really "accomplish" it until Veil fused back, a bit like Szeth's ideal of conquest).

It's conceivable she can change her eyes colour, but if we assume they have some shapeshifting abilities, why Chanarach? Some people noticed Ahs's habit of destroying art looked like an inversion of her "creative" tribute and "cheat on her husband and try to kill her daughter" works well as an inversion of Vedel's "loving" attribute.

Although, the Herald's pictures are in universe art by people who probably didn't met them so my argument of her eyes not being green doesn't work. We should still ask Brandon though.

(also you double posted)

[KSub]

On 03/02/2021 at 11:40 PM, teknopathetic said:

*Audible Gasp*

I added this to the main post and credited you! This is said right before "Red carpet turned white". Amazing!

I don't remember noticing that line when I read the book. Why does the carpet turn from red to white?

 

Oh and my theory was that Nale started the desolation when he retrieved his honorblade. Its much less detailed than your theory.

The Heralds gave up their oaths and abandoned their swords. I thought when Nale recovered his it may have reformed his connection to the oathpact. Like I said there's not many details, but I liked the irony that Nale would have caused the very thing he was trying to stop.

[Frustration]

15 minutes ago, KSub said:

The Heralds gave up their oaths and abandoned their swords. I thought when Nale recovered his it may have reformed his connection to the oathpact. Like I said there's not many details, but I liked the irony that Nale would have caused the very thing he was trying to stop.

He got is blade back long before WoK,

[mathiau]

Just now, Frustration said:

He got is blade back long before WoK,

Also Ishi would have told them from the start if that would do anything

[KSub]

23 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Also Ishi would have told them from the start if that would do anything

That's probably true.

[teknopathetic]

14 minutes ago, KSub said:

That's probably true.

I’m not sure if anyone has noticed, but Ishi is real crazy town banana pants, and is also referred to as “the one Odium tempted first” 

it’s not uncommon a theory that Ishar was corrupt from the get go. The Stormfather didn’t like him for one, and “there is a traitor amongst them” could as easily be applied to the unmade as the heralds. 

Ishar seems poised to be the villain of the heralds, even going back before the previous desolation. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by teknopathetic

[KSub]

18 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

I’m not sure if anyone has noticed, but Ishi is real crazy town banana pants, and is also referred to as “the one Odium tempted first” 

it’s not uncommon a theory that Ishar was corrupt from the get go. The Stormfather didn’t like him for one, and “there is a traitor amongst them” could as easily be applied to the unmade as the heralds. 

Ishar seems poised to be the villain of the heralds, even going back before the previous desolation. 

He's also the one who told Nale the Radiants would cause the desolation and sent him on a killing spree. 

Ok. Nale started the desolation. 

[teknopathetic]

8 minutes ago, KSub said:

He's also the one who told Nale the Radiants would cause the desolation and sent him on a killing spree. 

Ok. Nale started the desolation. 

I personally don't think so, but I am suspicious of Ishar in general. Odium seemed upset that Dalinar might be working with Ishar, which is an odd sentiment to have of one's enemies. 

This is also starting to drift pretty far from the Chanarach idea though. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by teknopathetic

[KSub]

5 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

I personally don't think so, but I am suspicious of Ishar in general. Odium seemed upset that Dalinar might be working with Ishar, which is an odd sentiment to have of one's enemies. 

This is also starting to drift pretty far from the Chanarach idea though. 

Sure. Back on track.

Do you know why the line was the carpet turned from red to white?

[mathiau]

19 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

I’m not sure if anyone has noticed, but Ishi is real crazy town banana pants, and is also referred to as “the one Odium tempted first” 

it’s not uncommon a theory that Ishar was corrupt from the get go. The Stormfather didn’t like him for one, and “there is a traitor amongst them” could as easily be applied to the unmade as the heralds. 

I'm not sure if you notice but the other Heralds didn't realize Ishi's insanely obvious insanity. Ishar's madness is definitely a new development, Kelek mentioned Shalash was getting worse and he though he, and probably every Herald, was getting worse but it's not what I'm talking about

Quote

"The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me."

—Observed on Palaheses 1173, collected secondhand and later reported to the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a wealthy lighteyes.

The madness, not the pain. The nine, not the ten. Moelarch sees the future, why would this one be about Taln? Note that neither Ash nor Nale seemed affected by Radiants swearing oaths near them, contrary to both Ishar and Taln which implies their madness is more magical than the others'. I think when Taln went back to Roshar (in late 1173), or maybe when the Everstorm came, Odium stopped sending the full amount of madness to Taln and sent nine tenth to the Herald he was the most linked to, Ishar.

Just now, teknopathetic said:

I personally don't think so, but I am suspicious of Ishar in general. Odium seemed upset that Dalinar might be working with Ishar, which is an odd sentiment to have of one's enemies. 

Seems pretty normal to me

2 minutes ago, KSub said:

Sure. Back on track.

Do you know why the line was the carpet turned from red to white?

Shallan once turned a table green while thinking about flowers, maybe she turned the carpet red by thinking of blood?

 

Also, remember how Wit insisted to Shallan you should never trust someone claiming to know the future? If this theory is true then "spren bounding radiants will bring a Devastation" is only true because someone said it would happen that way.

[Frustration]

12 minutes ago, mathiau said:

The madness, not the pain. The nine, not the ten. Moelarch sees the future, why would this one be about Taln? Note that neither Ash nor Nale seemed affected by Radiants swearing oaths near them, contrary to both Ishar and Taln which implies their madness is more magical than the others'. I think when Taln went back to Roshar (in late 1173), or maybe when the Everstorm came, Odium stopped sending the full amount of madness to Taln and sent nine tenth to the Herald he was the most linked to, Ishar.`

Why would Talns own burden become his own? Nine Burdens on top of his.

[teknopathetic]

31 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Why would Talns own burden become his own? Nine Burdens on top of his.

I think the burden refers to the pain bond. When the Heralds played hide and seek on Braize, they were able to share the pain felt by anyone of them being tortured. When Taln heads to Braize that last time, he didn’t have anyone to lean on during the torture. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by teknopathetic

[jamesbondsmith]

On the point of Taln breaking, we can quote A Song of Ice and Fire: 'a man who has fought 100 battles can break in his 101st'. I've experienced this with physical injury. I could run and run and run during sport and then finally one particular chase was the straw that broke the camel's back, regardless of whether it's exactly the same as every single other time. I do seem to remember the voidspren working to subvert the oathpact, but I also don't see why Taln couldn't have broken.

As for the rest of the theory, 'Shallan is the daughter of a herald' might be something that explains why the Cryptics are lining up to join what I call the Charge of the Lightweaver Brigade. Although why the cryptics would be doing it and not ashpren (i.e. spren of her order) is a bit confusing. I guess we have the whole 'humans killed heaps of us so we hate them' thing for that.

[Honorless]

That makes a horrifying amount of sense...

[mathiau]

2 hours ago, jamesbondsmith said:

Although why the cryptics would be doing it and not ashpren (i.e. spren of her order) is a bit confusing. I guess we have the whole 'humans killed heaps of us so we hate them' thing for that.

Ashspren are the spren of the Dustbringers and most of them hate humanity. The cryptics have always been the spren of Ash's order

[jamesbondsmith]

1 hour ago, mathiau said:

Ashspren are the spren of the Dustbringers and most of them hate humanity. The cryptics have always been the spren of Ash's order

From the coppermind:

Quote

Chanarach, also known as Chana, is one of the ten Heralds of the Almighty on Roshar, and the patron of the Order of Dustbringers

Shallan is only named after Shalash, unless something truly weird is going on, and this thread is about Chanarach. I meant that the ashspren might be drawn to their patron's daughter, but I also acknowledged that they hate humans (not enough for Spark to not bond Malata though).

Edited February 7, 2021 by jamesbondsmith

[mathiau]

37 minutes ago, jamesbondsmith said:

From the coppermind:

Shallan is only named after Shalash, unless something truly weird is going on, and this thread is about Chanarach. I meant that the ashspren might be drawn to their patron's daughter, but I also acknowledged that they hate humans (not enough for Spark to not bond Malata though).

I had missundertood your post.

Spren are drawn by personalities so I doubt Herald's descendents would attract the same kind of sprens

Spark bounded Malata but they're both against the Radiants

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, jamesbondsmith said:

On the point of Taln breaking, we can quote A Song of Ice and Fire: 'a man who has fought 100 battles can break in his 101st'. I've experienced this with physical injury. I could run and run and run during sport and then finally one particular chase was the straw that broke the camel's back, regardless of whether it's exactly the same as every single other time. I do seem to remember the voidspren working to subvert the oathpact, but I also don't see why Taln couldn't have broken.

After 4,500 years, I think he is so far gone he can't break, like litterally couldn't do it. He's completly unresponsive to any stimuli, I don't think he's capable of breaking his word at this point

[mathiau]

Just now, Frustration said:

After 4,500 years, I think he is so far gone he can't break, like litterally couldn't do it. He's completly unresponsive to any stimuli, I don't think he's capable of breaking his word at this point

Which is why he and Hoid mentioned he was late.

[basement_boi]

On 2/3/2021 at 7:07 PM, teknopathetic said:

Interestingly, Shallan's eyes are light blue as well. I also believe Lin Davar's eyes are blue. 

One thing to note is that using stormlight changes the eyecolour of people:

"After Kaladin says the Third Ideal of the Immortal Words and recognizes himself as a true Knight Radiant, his eyes turn pale blue, lighter than any king.They stay pale blue for several hours after summoning Syl before returning to brown, and Kaladin has to summon Syl several times a day to keep his eye blue." - Coppermind

Could it be that the Herald's eye color changed when she lost her Honourblade? Taln has brown eyes, but it seems unlikey he would have been a darkeyes during the final desolation. He is associated with amber, but maybe that was the stonewards and not necessarily him. Soimething to consder for sure! 

A second possibility is that Chana changes her eye colour to disguise herself (similar to what a Returned can do). We still don't know what innate power the heralds have. 

Jezrien’s eyes are brown even while he has his honorblade. Honorblades don’t affect eye color. And either way, light eyes eye color doesn’t change when they summon blades.

[stonewalker16]

On 2/3/2021 at 8:35 PM, teknopathetic said:

A lot of Shardblades have gone missing; it makes sense the heralds might know where some might be. 

I actually had a theory on this a while back. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them were lost in the ocean, or were thrown into Shadesmar somehow. 

Since we also know there are groups that stockpile perfect gemstones, why not stockpile shardblades? Nale and the Skybreakers seemed to be able to easily get Helrarin a shardblade and plate, and we've already seen them having other stockpiles throughout centuries. It's not unreasonable to assume someone might have a stockpile of shardblades somewhere, with how many secret societies are present on Roshar.