Unpopular Rhythm of War opinions

[Binkery]

I see how the novels want her to be hypercompetent but I cannot.  Even the talk about hope and her unwillingness to even look at options to get Urithiru back shows how much of a sideline character she is.  Ivory could have done better. 

Ha you're making me dig my own hole.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Binkery
changed to to the

[cometaryorbit]

54 minutes ago, Binkery said:

I see how the novels want her to be hypercompetent but I cannot.  Even the talk about hope and her unwillingness to even look at options to get Urithiru back shows how much of a sideline character she is.  Ivory could have done better. 

Ha you're making me dig my own hole.

Re hypercompetent, I was more thinking about stuff like her figuring out the Parshmen/Voidbringer connection and surviving Shadesmar in WoR.

I agree she doesn't always make the best decisions or set the best goals. But she's very good at accomplishing those goals.

[Binkery]

12 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Re hypercompetent, I was more thinking about stuff like her figuring out the Parshmen/Voidbringer connection and surviving Shadesmar in WoR.

I agree she doesn't always make the best decisions or set the best goals. But she's very good at accomplishing those goals.

Indeed yet all these things were done off screen.  Shallan being the readers voice made the connection of the Parshmen/Voidbringer and she just nodded.  Surviving Shadesamr is pretty wild but what if she just landed on a Peakspren barge and was welcomed with open arms.  All her accomplishments are force fed to us to accept but never actually seen as real.  Even the note Dalinar gave to the Thaylenahs from her they just blushed with awe from something nonsequential from anything other than we 'have to and need to accept she is amazing'

[IcaroRibeiro]

5 hours ago, Binkery said:

I still don't see how so so so many people see Jasnah  as this higher being.  She literally shanked an unarmed drunk asshole in the neck and everyone clapped....that's not the person I look to as a queen bee.  Dalinar saying they "expertly" put that dumb guy in his place.  No.  They (and everyone else in Alethi society) knew what this idiot would do.  Plus her just being a warrior for warrior sake during the battling plus telling Dalinar when he wanted to pursue his powers she just says 'but war general??!' much like how she tried to sideline Shallan (who is so entrenched to spying) saying 'hey you need to make corn for us'  Jasnah is pretty much the dumbest smart person in Roshar.  Much like her father.  That is my very unpopular RoW opinion sadly. 

Don't ban me please

I want to argue but I realized I haven't understand anything you said 

[Binkery]

6 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

I want to argue but I realized I haven't understand anything you said 

I do tend to ramble don't I.  The unarmed drunk asshole was Ruthar the last questionable highprince that Dalinar and Navani had to contend with and he was old time ways in terms of men battle women read.  So when he was drinking away during the battle planning and saw Jasnah with The Mink chatting away he got stupid angry like everyone in the room knew he would.  This was not an expertly maneuvered happening this seemed like an everyday thing he would have done minus getting stabbed in the neck naturally

Then when the fighting began and she was all in geared up in her Shardplate and swiping away with her shardblade she refused use anything else in her arsenal because she needed to know how the other people fought before radiances.... putting her people and many others in danger.  Wit even had to snap her out of it.  After the battle was won and the victory of Emul over Dalinar told Jasnah he has to focus on figuring out his powers to finish the war forever instead of all these small battles and she tells him it's more important that he leads the army in these small battles (even though The Mink pretty much did the whole dealo during the Emul push) ignoring the part he said about ending the whole thing.

No need to argue though as I know many people think the world of her and good for them.  That's the thing about characters and stories in general people have varied thoughts on the mannerisms of everyone and thing.

[Torol Sadeas]

I don't know how unpopular this opinon actually is, I guess I'll see from the response i get  

In Dalinar's 3rd oath he says he will "take responsibility for what I have done" and "stand up each time a better man". It was an epic ending to his Oathbringer arc. But while reading Rhythm of War, I dont think he actually does that. 

In his argument with Adolin he says: "I merely want you to be the best man you can be. A better man than I was at your age. I know that's the person you really are." (p.317) With that he is implying that right now Adolin isn't acting like a better person than he was at the time. That sentence actually made my blood boil, despite me loving Dalinar's character since book 1. That he has the audacity to compare his slaughtering of thousands of innocents to Adolin killing Sadeas really shocked me. It is not only extremely unfair to his son, but also massively playing down his own crimes. And then he constantly judges him for his clothing choices for absolutely no reason. My opinion is that rather than taking responsibility for his past, he just constantly dismisses it with "yes, but im better now", while holding others to impossible standards at the same time. 

 After Oathbringer, I really liked Dalinar's redemption arc, and I still do to a large extent. He truly is a better person now. But he is also still, as much as I love him, a judgmental and self-righteous (benevolent) tyrant. And yes, tyranny is the best way to describe his way of leading. He just expects/demands of everyone, even his inner circle, to do as they are told. Compare that to Kaladin, who is actually walking down Nohadon's path in The Way of Kings. Dalinar tries, but can't overcome his internalized elitism. The biggest character flaw Dalinar hasn't (and I dont think ever will) overcome is his hunger for power. Sadeas of all people correctly identifies it, saying Dalinar "never really trusts anyone to do the job" (dont know the page, one of his WoR POVs) I think this character flaw will lead to a big win for Todium in book 5, it has always been hinted at but never really resulted in consequences before. 

The point of all this is not to bash Dalinar. I love the guy. He did become a much better, maybe even a good man. But he just isn't fit to be in a position of power. It was a necessary evil at first, but now it's time for him to step back. Maybe Kaladin can start to fill his role, now that he is on a path to being better. If not Kaladin, there will be others. 

 

Edit: Actually, I have another one: In the Jasnah/Wit/Ruthar scene, I shockingly found the former two to be incredibly embarrassing. The scene felt incredibly forced to me, probably the worst I can remember across all four Stormlight books. Wit's insults didnt work at all for me. Very surprising, since I really like both Jasnah and Wit throughout the first three books. (Though to me it seems that Jasnah has become less empathic over time) 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Torol Sadeas

[KaladinWorldsinger]

37 minutes ago, Torol Sadeas said:

The biggest character flaw Dalinar hasn't (and I dont think ever will) overcome is his hunger for power.

I agree with the flaw, but i think Dalinar is slowly moving towards overcoming this flaw. RoW Dalinar has finally admitted that democracy and beurocracy is better than one leader making all the decisions. And i don't think adolins problem with his dad is done yet. They are almost definitely going to have some resolution in book 5, where Dalinar finally stops holding adolin to impossible standards

[SymphonianBookworm]

This is very off topic, but I wanted to say-

I love the Jasnah and Wit thing going on. I am pretty sure I am the only one who absolutely loves the relationship. I feel like they are perfect for each other. An intelligent, heretic queen too smart for her time with a tongue as sharp as a knife and looks to match, and then my favorite character of all time, Wit---the immortal trickster god with the best insults I have ever read. I think that they are the only ones who can understand each other- Wit doesn't care that she's a heretic, and I think he'll get over the asexual thing. She knows that he's immortal and knowledgable, but she likes him because of that. They fit together so well, and honestly I hope they stay together and get married or something. I hope Jasnah will become a worldhopper and travel with Hoid throughout the cosmere, and rule the world. I think Jasnah could teach Hoid how to be serious sometimes, and he could teach her how to have fun. They would have incredible philosophical conversations, I would think, and I think that they would enjoy each other's company because both are mostly misunderstood.

imagine a world led by Jasnah and Wit... 

Anyway, that's what I believe wholeheartedly. 

(This is my first post, by the way. I'm new  )

[Binkery]

21 hours ago, Torol Sadeas said:

With that he is implying that right now Adolin isn't acting like a better person than he was at the time. That sentence actually made my blood boil, despite me loving Dalinar's character since book 1. That he has the audacity to compare his slaughtering of thousands of innocents to Adolin killing Sadeas really shocked me. It is not only extremely unfair to his son, but also massively playing down his own crimes. And then he constantly judges him for his clothing choices for absolutely no reason. My opinion is that rather than taking responsibility for his past, he just constantly dismisses it with "yes, but im better now", while holding others to impossible standards at the same time.

Edit: Actually, I have another one: In the Jasnah/Wit/Ruthar scene, I shockingly found the former two to be incredibly embarrassing. The scene felt incredibly forced to me, probably the worst I can remember across all four Stormlight books. Wit's insults didnt work at all for me. Very surprising, since I really like both Jasnah and Wit throughout the first three books. (Though to me it seems that Jasnah has become less empathic over time) 

Very true on that part.  The only aspect might be that it was from Adolins point of view so naturally Dalinar is going to be a turd no matter what he said.  Doesn't make it better none-the-less.  This book made me want Adolin to get all ten surges as he truly is the better man than all of them!  Kalidan included.  Also thank you for the edit as I agree very much.  Minus the Wit moment when he said a eunuch could teach him how to be a man.  That was a pretty decent dig.

 

10 hours ago, SymphonianBookworm said:

imagine a world led by Jasnah and Wit... 

Anyway, that's what I believe wholeheartedly. 

(This is my first post, by the way. I'm new  )

I will not lol but hello and welcome to the 17th Shard! 

[Dracnor]

22 hours ago, Torol Sadeas said:

I don't know how unpopular this opinon actually is, I guess I'll see from the response i get  

In Dalinar's 3rd oath he says he will "take responsibility for what I have done" and "stand up each time a better man". It was an epic ending to his Oathbringer arc. But while reading Rhythm of War, I dont think he actually does that. 

In his argument with Adolin he says: "I merely want you to be the best man you can be. A better man than I was at your age. I know that's the person you really are." (p.317) With that he is implying that right now Adolin isn't acting like a better person than he was at the time. That sentence actually made my blood boil, despite me loving Dalinar's character since book 1. That he has the audacity to compare his slaughtering of thousands of innocents to Adolin killing Sadeas really shocked me. It is not only extremely unfair to his son, but also massively playing down his own crimes. And then he constantly judges him for his clothing choices for absolutely no reason. My opinion is that rather than taking responsibility for his past, he just constantly dismisses it with "yes, but im better now", while holding others to impossible standards at the same time. 

 After Oathbringer, I really liked Dalinar's redemption arc, and I still do to a large extent. He truly is a better person now. But he is also still, as much as I love him, a judgmental and self-righteous (benevolent) tyrant. And yes, tyranny is the best way to describe his way of leading. He just expects/demands of everyone, even his inner circle, to do as they are told. Compare that to Kaladin, who is actually walking down Nohadon's path in The Way of Kings. Dalinar tries, but can't overcome his internalized elitism. The biggest character flaw Dalinar hasn't (and I dont think ever will) overcome is his hunger for power. Sadeas of all people correctly identifies it, saying Dalinar "never really trusts anyone to do the job" (dont know the page, one of his WoR POVs) I think this character flaw will lead to a big win for Todium in book 5, it has always been hinted at but never really resulted in consequences before. 

The point of all this is not to bash Dalinar. I love the guy. He did become a much better, maybe even a good man. But he just isn't fit to be in a position of power. It was a necessary evil at first, but now it's time for him to step back. Maybe Kaladin can start to fill his role, now that he is on a path to being better. If not Kaladin, there will be others. 

 

Edit: Actually, I have another one: In the Jasnah/Wit/Ruthar scene, I shockingly found the former two to be incredibly embarrassing. The scene felt incredibly forced to me, probably the worst I can remember across all four Stormlight books. Wit's insults didnt work at all for me. Very surprising, since I really like both Jasnah and Wit throughout the first three books. (Though to me it seems that Jasnah has become less empathic over time) 

I agree with all of it. Dalinar is a judgmental self-righteous tyrant unable to trust others for more than following orders; and the Jasnah/Wit was mechanical at best. Thanks for putting it so well.

[SymphonianBookworm]

On 5/4/2022 at 5:32 AM, Binkery said:

I do tend to ramble don't I.  The unarmed drunk asshole was Ruthar the last questionable highprince that Dalinar and Navani had to contend with and he was old time ways in terms of men battle women read.  So when he was drinking away during the battle planning and saw Jasnah with The Mink chatting away he got stupid angry like everyone in the room knew he would.  This was not an expertly maneuvered happening this seemed like an everyday thing he would have done minus getting stabbed in the neck naturally

I just wanted to say that you are entitled to your own opinions, but I think that Roshar is a very sexist world, and even if that's normalized, it doesn't make it okay. I am not saying you think it is, but if Ruthar is going to attack Jasnah because she's participating in "manly" activities, I think she has every right to also fight him. I also think that she did plan out to have Renarin heal him so she wouldn't cause too much damage, so, while she might not have expertly maneuvered the situation, she did make sure there wasn't permanent harm to Ruthar, while still getting her point across.

Also, thanks for welcoming me to the Shard

[IcaroRibeiro]

I understand Adolin is a Golden retriever and is a nicer, loving, accepting and more forgiving person compared to others main characters, but Adolin lacks the scars in their soul the others do. Adolin's life so far has been fairly easier and laid back than every one else. Of course he still an highprince heir with military duties, but he trained with the finest swordmasters in Roshar, inherited a Shardplate, is socially appreciated and valued, handsome, wealth and probably never had to work for living. Her mother was lovely with him and even when his father was a heartless tyrant he always displayed to love and care for little Adolin,  making sure he was important, wanted and appreciated since he was a son, a feeling he never showed to Renarin however. The war at shattered plains was against another specie, not human, a group of singers Alethi barley recognized them as sapient animals, capable of emotions and Adolin displayed at first a hatred towards them because of what their ploy did to Dalinar, of course this also have context, but the point is he never needed to felt guilty ou emotionally concerned when finding Parshendi, just like most man don't grown concerned or traumatized after hunting animals  

 

There is... just very few things going bad on Adolin's life. He don't even have to worry so much with the duties from his social position, he never seemed to be very excited about them anyway. I think deep down he is relieved they now have radiants and people look for them instead of Brightlords, it gives Adolin more freedom and less concern 

Considering how media and fiction usually portrays heros and knights, it's noteworthy Sanderson purposefully choose his more beautiful, shiny and flawless character, the embodiment of social perfection, to not be a Radiant

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, SymphonianBookworm said:

Ruthar is going to attack Jasnah because she's participating in "manly" activities, I think she has every right to also fight him.

Jasnah started the fight.

[SymphonianBookworm]

6 hours ago, Frustration said:

Jasnah started the fight.

Yes, but if Ruthar hadn't been sexist, the fight wouldn't have happened in the first place. Wit wouldn't have had to insult him, and Jasnah would not have had to stab him. Like I said before, it is a sexist world, but I still can't forgive that. Even drunk, he should know better. In what way do you believe Jasnah started the fight---by talking to the Mink about war tactics?

By the way, I just wanted to say that my tone is lighthearted- I know tone can be misconceived when typing. I am not trying to sound angry or anything like that, and I know what I wrote could be interpreted that way.

[Binkery]

9 hours ago, SymphonianBookworm said:

I just wanted to say that you are entitled to your own opinions, but I think that Roshar is a very sexist world, and even if that's normalized, it doesn't make it okay. I am not saying you think it is, but if Ruthar is going to attack Jasnah because she's participating in "manly" activities, I think she has every right to also fight him. I also think that she did plan out to have Renarin heal him so she wouldn't cause too much damage, so, while she might not have expertly maneuvered the situation, she did make sure there wasn't permanent harm to Ruthar, while still getting her point across.

Also, thanks for welcoming me to the Shard

Of course she did.  I never denied that fact.  I just very much disliked how Sanderson wrote how Dalinar was so impressed with her handling of a sexist drunk.  I mean  that's not hard to do when everyone in the room already knew how to handle the piece of crap.  Plus, I have to again say hello and welcome!!! 

 

9 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

I understand Adolin is a Golden retriever and is a nicer, loving, accepting and more forgiving person compared to others main characters, but Adolin lacks the scars in their soul the others do. Adolin's life so far has been fairly easier and laid back than every one else. Of course he still an highprince heir with military duties, but he trained with the finest swordmasters in Roshar, inherited a Shardplate, is socially appreciated and valued, handsome, wealth and probably never had to work for living. Her mother was lovely with him and even when his father was a heartless tyrant he always displayed to love and care for little Adolin,  making sure he was important, wanted and appreciated since he was a son, a feeling he never showed to Renarin however. The war at shattered plains was against another specie, not human, a group of singers Alethi barley recognized them as sapient animals, capable of emotions and Adolin displayed at first a hatred towards them because of what their ploy did to Dalinar, of course this also have context, but the point is he never needed to felt guilty ou emotionally concerned when finding Parshendi, just like most man don't grown concerned or traumatized after hunting animals  

 

There is... just very few things going bad on Adolin's life. He don't even have to worry so much with the duties from his social position, he never seemed to be very excited about them anyway. I think deep down he is relieved they now have radiants and people look for them instead of Brightlords, it gives Adolin more freedom and less concern 

Considering how media and fiction usually portrays heros and knights, it's noteworthy Sanderson purposefully choose his more beautiful, shiny and flawless character, the embodiment of social perfection, to not be a Radiant

I'm very angry all these words make sense but he did watch what he thought was his father losing his mind.  That is scary as hell and scar worthy even if Dalinar pulled thru it.  Also, he isn't relieved radiants exsits but he is in awe of it.  He wants to fight and he needs to be part of that battle but he understands he's just a mortal in a world of gods.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Binkery
raiants to radiants

[SymphonianBookworm]

Well... thanks again for welcoming me!

[Frustration]

5 hours ago, SymphonianBookworm said:

Yes, but if Ruthar hadn't been sexist, the fight wouldn't have happened in the first place.

So it's okay to kill someone if they are mean to you?

5 hours ago, SymphonianBookworm said:

In what way do you believe Jasnah started the fight---by talking to the Mink about war tactics?

By forcing him to fight, despite the fact he clearly did not want to, and had stopped fighting when she stabbed him through the neck.

[SymphonianBookworm]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:35 PM, Frustration said:

So it's okay to kill someone if they are mean to you?

By forcing him to fight, despite the fact he clearly did not want to, and had stopped fighting when she stabbed him through the neck.

I just want to say- ...Jasnah didn't kill him- in fact, she arranged it so he wouldn't die- and like @ProcrastinationShard said, Ruthar was the one to challenge Wit to a battle to the death because Wit was mean to him.

Also, he was the one who chose to fight, and once you enter a duel to the death you can't just toss aside your sword and say, "Oh wait, nevermind." That is not how they work.

(Sorry if I sounded rude.)

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, SymphonianBookworm said:

I just want to say- ...Jasnah didn't kill him- in fact, she arranged it so he wouldn't die-

If Renarin had been a second late he would have died.

2 hours ago, SymphonianBookworm said:

@ProcrastinationShard said, Ruthar was the one to challenge Wit to a battle to the death because Wit was mean to him.

He challanged Wit, not Jasnah, and Dalinar had talked him out of it. He did not strike Wit, and did nothing against him.

2 hours ago, SymphonianBookworm said:

Also, he was the one who chose to fight, and once you enter a duel to the death you can't just toss aside your sword and say, "Oh wait, nevermind." That is not how they work.

He didn't was about to walk away from the whole thing, when Jasnah comes and stabs at him. He blocks her strikes then throws his sword away and says "This is pointless." He never made an attack of his own, he clearly had no intrest in fighting her.

2 hours ago, SymphonianBookworm said:

(Sorry if I sounded rude.)

You're good.

[Letryx13]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:29 AM, Frustration said:

Jasnah started the fight.

It's more like she baited him into starting the fight, in fact Dalinar uses that exact word. But I agree, she made the first move.

This was absolutely my favorite chapter in the book. Part of it is that I just love how the audio book reads the phrase "Jasnah was making herself into bait. And Ruthar bit. Hard" But the other part is how I like that a story doesn't have to be over the top to be engaging.  Some political intrigue and admittedly some violence, and I was completely hooked.

On 5/3/2022 at 6:25 PM, cometaryorbit said:

I agree she doesn't always make the best decisions or set the best goals. But she's very good at accomplishing those goals.

To paraphrase Jasnah's own words, her goals are usually laudable, but her methods have been questionable, even brutal.  That's how I interpret her. 

On 5/7/2022 at 10:35 PM, Frustration said:

So it's okay to kill someone if they are mean to you?

To be fair, Ruthar totally overreacted, but Wit did accept the challenge. He could have refused. I don't like trials by combat or duels to the death either.

On 5/8/2022 at 6:40 AM, Procrastination Shard said:

Nothing was forced. He outright started the fight with the challenge to kill Wit. He wasn't forced to do anything, that was the entire point of the maneuverer.

I think the best way to look at it was they tricked/baited him into starting the fight.  Ruthar probably couldn't have legally had a trial by combat without Wit agreeing to it.

10 hours ago, Frustration said:

If Renarin had been a second late he would have died.

Agreed.  Dalinar even told Renarin that Jasnah probably would have gone along with her plan even without Renarin's help.

On 5/7/2022 at 6:00 PM, Binkery said:

Of course she did.  I never denied that fact.  I just very much disliked how Sanderson wrote how Dalinar was so impressed with her handling of a sexist drunk.  I mean  that's not hard to do when everyone in the room already knew how to handle the piece of crap.  Plus, I have to again say hello and welcome!!! 

Actually, I think Dalinar said he found how Jasnah handled the situation was distasteful.  He thought it would be effective, but he didn't like it, or that she hadn't told him about it in advance.

On 5/6/2022 at 9:47 AM, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I agree with the flaw, but i think Dalinar is slowly moving towards overcoming this flaw. RoW Dalinar has finally admitted that democracy and beurocracy is better than one leader making all the decisions. And i don't think adolins problem with his dad is done yet. They are almost definitely going to have some resolution in book 5, where Dalinar finally stops holding adolin to impossible standards

I think being willing to let go of power, or something related to that, would be a perfect Fourth Ideal for the BondSmiths, or maybe Fifth.

On 5/7/2022 at 8:26 AM, IcaroRibeiro said:

There is... just very few things going bad on Adolin's life. He don't even have to worry so much with the duties from his social position, he never seemed to be very excited about them anyway. I think deep down he is relieved they now have radiants and people look for them instead of Brightlords, it gives Adolin more freedom and less concern 

Considering how media and fiction usually portrays heros and knights, it's noteworthy Sanderson purposefully choose his more beautiful, shiny and flawless character, the embodiment of social perfection, to not be a Radiant

I agree with this to a certain extent. I actually like that Sanderson has a major POV character that hasn't become a radiant (yet).  One of the things I didn't like about Harry Potter was that there weren't any muggles that played prominent roles, except the Durseleys.  Part of me would like to see Aodlin become a radiant, if only to help Maya, but there's some truth to what you're saying in that he's is too undamaged for the Nahael bond.  On the other hand, up until we got a good look at Navani's past, she didn't really seem damaged either. And Adolin's actions toward Sadeus coupled with his anger toward his father could be enough to start the process, especially since he already has some kind of connection with Maya.  Or, and this is an idea my brother gave me, maybe because Maya is a deadeye, bonding with Adolin will create something entirely new.

[SymphonianBookworm]

On 5/19/2022 at 10:22 PM, Frustration said:

If Renarin had been a second late he would have died.

He challanged Wit, not Jasnah, and Dalinar had talked him out of it. He did not strike Wit, and did nothing against him.

He didn't was about to walk away from the whole thing, when Jasnah comes and stabs at him. He blocks her strikes then throws his sword away and says "This is pointless." He never made an attack of his own, he clearly had no intrest in fighting her.

However, Jasnah still made it so he wasnt a second late, and healed Ruthar.

In those duels you are able to choose champions, and Wit choosing Jasnah as his champion does not break any rules. He did threaten to kill Wit...

You can't walk away from a duel. He was the one who challenged Wit, even with provoking, and he has to deal with the consequences. You cannot challenge someone to a fight to the death, have them accept, and then realize that you probably shouldn't have done that and back out.

He threw away a sword in a duel without surrendering. Him, refusing to fight because of his sexist ideals is not a good enough excuse for me to believe that Jasnah did not have a right to continue the duel after he deemed it "pointless." He did not surrender and no one died, signifying the duel would continue.

[Frustration]

On 5/21/2022 at 6:58 AM, SymphonianBookworm said:

However, Jasnah still made it so he wasnt a second late, and healed Ruthar.

In those duels you are able to choose champions, and Wit choosing Jasnah as his champion does not break any rules. He did threaten to kill Wit...

You can't walk away from a duel. He was the one who challenged Wit, even with provoking, and he has to deal with the consequences. You cannot challenge someone to a fight to the death, have them accept, and then realize that you probably shouldn't have done that and back out.

He threw away a sword in a duel without surrendering. Him, refusing to fight because of his sexist ideals is not a good enough excuse for me to believe that Jasnah did not have a right to continue the duel after he deemed it "pointless." He did not surrender and no one died, signifying the duel would continue.

A duel takes place at an agreed upon time and place, Ruthar never agreed to that time, nor that place and thus the duel never started.

[Treamayne]

Quote

A whole lot of stuff about the "duel"

I just want to say, I think Brandon meant for us (the audience) to find the scene distasteful (in varying degrees based on our sensibilities). If I understood the whole context, Jasnah chose this method of dealing with Ruthar because:

• Jasnah also finds duels like these distasteful
• She intends to help steer the Alethi culture away from this type of conflict resolution
• She is using the misogyny against them; because if they don't want to fight a woman, but she has now set a precedent that females *can* duel, then calling for a duel when you might have to fight a woman becomes a worse option
• She does feel the need to make sure the leaders on the campaign remember she is Radiant first, a Monarch second, and (merely) female somewhere far further down the list
• Like slavery, just passing laws without trying to impact the national culture won't really solve the issue(s)

All that said, I won't say this was my least favorite scene in any Cosmere novel, but it may be my least favorite scene in RoW

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, Procrastination Shard said:

They literally do this exact thing in the scene.

* RoW page 641, first UK edition.

Tell me where the agreed start time was?

[kaladin x happiness]

too much time in urithiru, doing nothing

Edited May 28, 2022 by kaladin x happiness
added “doing nothing”