LewsTherinTelescope Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Back with another theory with probably more time put into overthinking organization and formatting than the content of the theory itself! This time, I'll be looking at our favorite little murder weapons, Nightblood and the Jezrien Stabbin' Knife, with bonus appearances from sprenblades, the Lezian Stabbin' Knife, and of course, Asterisk! (I'm sure various parts of this have been debated to death prior, but I haven't done a ton of looking around at other theories on this stuff yet. So oops if so.) As usual, this is full of everything being way over-cited even for common knowledge things, a.) to stay in the habit of citing, b.) to have exact wording handy, and c.) to try and avoid falling to commonly-held misconceptions. (0.) TL;DR Blackened wounds are an indication of something to do with the detachment of other aspects from the Physical aspect, but I am unsure what exactly distinguishes it from things that turn grey or white. Black smoke is related, though I am uncertain what it really is. (Despite the length of this post, my final conclusion is kind of wishy-washy on details, because it's all weird.) It is possible this is exclusive to Leeching (or similar but not identical mechanisms, such as raysium), but it is also possible it applies to other situations, and we just have not seen any of them yet. (1.) Background Spoiler Larkin, Leechers, and Nightblood all function similarly.[1][2] Larkin eat Investiture[3] Leechers drain metals from Allomancers[4] This makes the implication for what the shared function is rather clear. (Note that I will be referring to all of these as "Leeching", for the sake of convenience.) Raysium can conduct Investiture, drawing it from a source on one end and to a gem on the other.[5] While this is not identical to Leeching, I suspect it may behave similarly, and in fact was used for a similar purpose by the Fused.[5] Nightblood[6][7] and raysium[8] both leave blackened wounds and give off black smoke at times Nightblood gives off the smoke all the time and leaves the wounds when used to kill while partially sheathed, as it completely dissolves people to smoke when unsheathed[9]. Nightblood also causes black, veinlike tendrils to grow up the user's arm when drawn.[9] Raysium leaked smoke and left a blackened wound when used to draw Jezrien out of his body). Shades are really weird. See Section 6 for more. The rest of the theory doesn't mention them, because they're confusing. (2.) Finding Other Aspects Spoiler A question that will be very relevant for the rest of the theory: how does one touch the Spiritual aspect of something? Allomantic metals need to be inside you to because it requires "kinda getting into your spirit, and things".[10] Hemalurgy, which rips off bits of one's spiritweb, requires getting deep enough inside.[11] Raysium generally requires stabbing to drain, as it has to touch the soul.[12] When a soulstamp sinks into an object, it allegedly touches its soul[13] From these, I think it is clear that entering the Physical aspect can, under some circumstances, allow reaching the other aspects. (3.) Piercing the Realms Spoiler So it may be possible to "touch" the Spiritual aspect of a being via its Physical aspect, using certain magic systems. Great! Unfortunately, we're trapped in the Physical here, and while magic systems can do weird things with the Realms, we aren't magic systems.[citation needed] However, there's a rather interesting potential alternative: God metals are in all three Realms at once[14] Raysium can touch the soul, even when not being used in a specific magic system[12] Nightblood plays weirdly with rules in a similar way to god metals, though he did not explicitly mention the Realms there[14] Enough Investiture concentrated in a spot will pierce the Realms[15] So, perhaps god metals can, if they cut into something, touch its Spiritual aspect as well as its Physical. Hey, wait a sec... Shardblades are made of god metal[16] Shardblades are in more than just the Physical Realm[17] Shardblades cut on all three Realms[18] I hypothesize here that a.) the reason behind Shardblades cutting in three Realms is that, as they pierce all three Realms, they run into the other aspects when cutting the Physical, following a similar rule as Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Forgery, and raysium, and that b.) most god metal blades will function similarly. A potential counterargument is that Brandon has said currently, Shardblades would cut the soul rather than ripping off part of it as a spike.[16] An interesting point that does not necessarily directly disprove this argument, but could potentially do so: in order to be used as a spike, atium must be "refined".[19] What precisely this means is unclear, as far as I am aware, but it does indicate that atium may not be able to be used in a spike "out of the box", so to speak. (4.) Greying & Spiritual Draining Spoiler There's a few different things that turn things grey in the Cosmere (mainly swords): Awakening Awakening requires draining color from something[20] Awakening a Lifeless drains the Lifeless's body itself[21] Vivenna's blade turns people it kills grey[22] Nightblood The black tendrils start to fade to grey-white once the person lets go or sheathes it[23] Rayse's remains were grey[24] Sprenblades turn limbs they kill grey[25] (though if the wound is fatal, the eyes burn away but nothing turns grey[44]) This is a Spiritual change (rippling down to the Physical, however)[26], and in the case of Shardblades, represents the soul being severed, while in Awakening represents draining the soul away to near-nothing.[27] I feel it is clear, then, that it likely represents the Physical aspect losing the Spiritual aspect associated with it, or something similar. A complicating factor: Awakeners of a high enough Heightening drain to white instead, due to greater efficiency in draining.[28] Does this mean they remove the soul more effectively than completely severing it?? I'm not sure how that fits in here. (5.) Tying It All Together Spoiler I think Nightblood functions by Leeching while piercing the three Realms by virtue of being mind-bogglingly stupidly colossally overInvested[33][34][35][do I really need more sources on this? or even one source, honestly? it's fairly clear], which allows it to Leech the Spiritual and Cognitive aspects, and this of course goes poorly for the object or being, considering that those aspects are made entirely out of Investiture.[36] Vivenna's blade likely works in a similar manner, though in a way more similar to what Awakening does than Nightblood does (the difference is unclear to me as of yet; see below). I feel the raysium dagger works similarly, albeit not identically, as it does not destroy the body. Because Cognitive Shadows are made of Investiture[38], and the raysium, by virtue of being a god metal, pierces the Realms, when it conducts Investiture from inside a body, it takes the Shadow out of the body. Why does it not conduct the aspects of living people? I don't know. Perhaps it only conducts Investiture of a specific kind, and Shadows and spren fall into that category, while spiritwebs and Cognitive aspects do not. That feels reasonable to me. The anti-Light in the dagger may work similarly, channeling the anti-Light into the Fused in the other Realms at the same time, and as of course, Light and anti-Light destroy one another[41], this destroys their soul[42]. However, this may not be necessary, as cutting the gemheart will kill a Fused[43] (in the non-permanent manner), so perhaps they are actually in the gemheart in a more Physical way. Now for a harder question: what's the difference between going black and going grey? Answer: I'm.... not sure. Perhaps it has to do with the method of removing the aspects, or the number of aspects damaged or separated, or amount removed, or something else I haven't thought of. As for the smoke.... not particularly sure. Nightblood's leaking is "Investiture (that it's done some weird things to)".[39] The raysium dagger leaks black smoke after killing Jezrien.[8] The smoke from Shardblade kills (the burning eyes, presumably?) is somehow related[40] (though this could be indirectly, in that the eyes burning is due to Spiritual damage). It's probably related to the black wounds, but what exactly it is is a mystery to me. (6.) One Unresolved Question Spoiler Shades. Shades shades shades. Shades are strange. The wounds turn black, and, if the person is saved and the withering is stopped, but not enough silver is applied to cure it, will over time fade to grey.[29] I can sort of intuitively fit this in the same category, but can't work out a mechanical explanation that's not just super complicated. And why does it continue withering after the shade's touch ends[30], but can be reversed by silver[31] — but only in large enough quantities, as it will stop but not reverse in lower ones?[29] Why do they dry things out?[32] Shades are just weird and I feel will be more complicated to explain than this theory alone, though it likely plays a part in it. However, I do think it's fair to speculate that part of what they are doing might involve draining the other aspects. This, of course, then complicates the situation for grey vs black even more. So I'm not sure how it all works, really. Edit: Another thing making them even weirder that was pointed out to me: being killed by a shade makes you become one[45], so does that mean they also Invest you, in order to make you stick around as a Shadow? So they aren't just draining. To repeat myself: "Shades. Shades shades shades. Shades are strange." (I.) References Spoiler Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016) Quote Questioner If you were a Leecher, could you destroy a Shardblade? Brandon Sanderson I'm going to RAFO that for now, let's just say that it would be incredibly difficult if it were possible, and I'm not going to even say if it is. But that kind of power... Questioner Let's just say they were burning duralumin as well. Brandon Sanderson Let's just say that the Investiture in a Shardblade is much greater than your average Allomancer, but... This type of thing is not unheard of in the Cosmere. The larkin, the Leechers, and Nightblood all have a similar sort of thing going on. Destroying a Shardblade would be really hard. And Investiture resists other forms of Investiture, so. Rhythm of War, chapter I-12 Quote The sword feeds on the essence that makes up all things, he wrote, scribbling by the light of a single ruby sphere. It will draw out Stormlight eagerly, feasting. But if there is no Stormlight, it will feed on one’s own soul. The agent had noted that Nightblood worked like a larkin, the beasts that could feed on Investiture. Oathbringer, chapter I-13 Quote “I promise I’m not going to hurt her,” the old man said, grinning and releasing Rysn’s hand. “Here, I brought you something. See?” He held up a ruby chip. Chiri-Chiri considered, then hovered down above his hand—not touching it—and sucked the Stormlight out. It flew to her in a little stream, and she clicked happily, then zipped over to the pot of grass and wriggled into it, peeking out at Vstim. The Alloy of Law, Ars Arcanum Quote CHROMIUM: Leecher Mistings who burn chromium while touching another Allomancer will wipe that Allomancer’s metal reserves. Rhythm of War, chapter 84 Quote “We’ve used this metal for several Returns to drain Stormlight from Radiants,” Raboniel said. “It conducts Investiture, drawing it from a source and pulling it inward. We used it to fill gemstones, but didn’t realize until the fall of Ba-Ado-Mishram that capturing spren in gemstones was possible. It was then that one of us—She Who Dreams—realized it might be possible to trap a Herald’s soul in the same way.” Warbreaker, chapter 29 Quote She turned back. In the growing morning light, she could see something she’d missed before. The skin directly around the sword wounds had been completely drained of color. The wounds themselves had a dark black tinge to them. As if they had been infected with some terrible disease. Warbreaker, chapter 35 Quote The man, Vasher, stepped forward. He undid the clasp on that deep, black sword, and Vivenna felt a strange nausea strike her. A thin wisp of black smoke began to curl up from the blade. Oathbringer, chapter 121 Quote The man trembled for a moment more, then jerked once, going motionless. When Moash pulled the yellow-white knife free, it trailed dark smoke and left a blackened wound. The large sapphire at the pommel took on a subdued glow. Warbreaker, chapter 56 Quote Each creature he struck with the blade immediately flashed and became smoke. A single scratch and the bodies dissolved like paper being consumed by an invisible fire, leaving behind only a large stain of blackness in the air. Vasher spun among them, striking with wrath, killing Lifeless after Lifeless. Black smoke churned around him, and his arm twisted with pain as veinlike tendrils climbed up the hilt and around his forearm—like black blood vessels that latched on to his skin, feeding off his Breath. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) Quote Questioner So, would Allomancy work if the metals were a suppository? Brandon Sanderson That is theoretically possible, but gross... There's nothing special about the stomach. It's kinda getting it into your spirit, and things. Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018) Quote Questioner Would it be possible to make Hemalurgic dental fillings? If there were a mad-scientist dentist? Brandon Sanderson I've thought about this. I think that would be possible, but for Hemalurgy to really work I need it to...it doesn't actually have to be touching the blood, despite what they think. But I think your average dental filling is not going deep enough... Questioner Root canal! Brandon Sanderson *Continues* But yeah, you could make it work. Rhythm of War, chapter 84 Quote “Understood, Ancient One,” Navani said. “I want it only for my experiments. Thank you.” She touched the tip of the dagger—with the white-gold metal—to one half of the divided ruby. Nothing happened. “Generally, you need to stab someone with it for it to work,” Raboniel said. “You need to touch the soul.” The Emperor's Soul, Day Twelve Quote As always, the stamp sank slightly into the material. A soulstamp left a seal you could feel, regardless of the material. She twisted the stamp a half turn—this did not blur the ink, though she did not know why. One of her mentors had taught that it was because by this point the seal was touching the object’s soul and not its physical presence. Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017) Quote Chaos Is atium Invested? Brandon Sanderson Is atium Invested? Atium is Investiture distilled into the Physical Realm, right? So is electricity electric? Or is it-- Chaos Well I think the question Sharders had was if it's Invested, how can people Push and Pull on it. That was the struggle. Brandon Sanderson Atium breaks a lot of rules, in the same way that you will see other things break rules. Atium plays weirdly. When you get distilled Investiture, you're starting like-- My kind of rule for myself is it's kind of like when you start going on the quantum level, the rules just start playing weirdly. Because it's like, what Realm does atium exist in-- is another thing. Because-- Pure Investiture like that is like a mini black hole, right? It's like existing in three Realms at once. Kind of, and things like that... There's lots of weirdness. The writerly answer is there is lots of weirdness because when I built atium, I didn't have the rest of the cosmere built, right? And so it breaks a lot of rules that I later set up that everything else has to follow, right? So the writerly answer is we just have to accept that atium and lerasium and some of these other distilled Investiture things are going to play very weirdly with the magic systems. But that's okay. Nightblood will too, and some of these things that were built even after the cosmere was coming together. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) Quote TheFulgid Could you Invest... Could you use a nicrosil metalmind to Invest the sort of Investiture enough that you could open a Perpendicularity up to the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson So, I'll just say it this way. Enough concentrated Investiture in one point is going to pierce the Realms, no matter what form it takes. TheFulgid ...So, it doesn't have to be a nicrosil metalmind. Brandon Sanderson No. TheFulgid Okay... But it could be? Brandon Sanderson Yes. That is theoretically possible. Waterstones RoW Release Event (Nov. 18, 2020) Quote Questioner Can Shardblades, dead or alive, be used as Hemalurgic spikes? And if attempted, what would the result be? Brandon Sanderson Technically yes, but in practicality no. To use something as a Hemalurgic spike, it basically just needs to be able to already have a charge of Investiture, or be able to adopt one. Technically, Shardblades are made from a god metal. You could do this. But the Blade is gonna be big and unwieldy, and the form it’s in right now, it’s going to slice the soul rather than rip pieces off. You would have to jump through a bunch of hoops that wouldn’t be worth it in order to use one. It would basically mean that you’d have to separate the metal of the Shardblade from the concept of a Shardblade itself, is what’s going on there. Bonn Signing (May 15, 2019) Quote Questioner Since you have basically established that spren are at least to some extent alive, how is it possible for a Shardblade to not cut right through a living weapon, like Syl for example. Brandon Sanderson What you are seeing is: when they are pulling through into the Physical Realm they are creating something that is not 100% physical, not 100% metal, it's like an amalgamation of the two. And that is doing something very special that then prevents other things from cutting through it. It's specifically the way that it's happening. You could make this happen with other things too. Another big part of it is the amount of Investiture. If something is highly Invested it's going to stop a Shardblade too, because the Investiture is gonna kinda bounce off of each other. It's theoretical, for instance, you could make a Hemalurgic spike that would stop a Shardblade... So, Invest something highly and it will stop a Shardblade almost always. But, you can cut souls; they are highly Invested also. So you need something in the Physical Realm that is pulling power through from the other Realms. /r/books AMA 2015 (July 15, 2015) Quote VindicationKnight If a person in the Cosmere built a fully sentient and sapient robot would that robot have a soul? How would it interact with Shardblades? Brandon Sanderson Yes. It would interact with Shardblades the same way that Spren do. VindicationKnight How does a Shardblade interact with a Spren? Brandon Sanderson Shardblades cut on all three realms. I'm not going to say too much here, though I might note that it's possible a robot like you say would act more like nightblood than anything else--depends on what is involved in the creation, and how you determine the difference between a robot and a golem for these purposes. Table of Hemalurgic Metals Quote Atium Steals any power. Must be refined. Warbreaker, prolouge Quote The little straw figure jerked, sucking in the Breath. In Vasher’s hand, half of the brilliant red scarf faded to grey. Vasher leaned down—imagining what he wanted the figure to do—and completed the final step of the process as he gave the Command. Warbreaker, chapter 21 Quote One Breath was leached from his body, going down into the small rodent’s corpse. The thing began to twitch. That was a Breath Vasher would never be able to recover, for creating a Lifeless was a permanent act. The squirrel lost all color, bleeding to grey, the Awakening feeding off the body’s own colors to help fuel the transformation. The squirrel had been grey in the first place, so the difference was tough to see. That’s why Vasher liked to use them. Oathbringer, chapter 83 Quote They saluted, and Adolin stepped back. Azure had cut down her door, but her Shardblade wasn’t as long as the other two. She was leading a more conservative attack, cutting the ends off spears as they rammed out toward her men. As he watched, she stabbed an enemy soldier who tried to push through. Remarkably, his eyes didn’t burn, though his skin did go a strange ashen grey as he died. Oathbringer, chapter 92 Quote He fell to his knees, dropping the sword and raising his hand, fingers bent and tendons taut. Slowly, the blackness evaporated from his flesh, the awful pain easing. The skin of his hand, which had already been pale, had been bleached to grey-white. Rhythm of War, chapter 114 Quote He was aware of what he’d left behind in the mortal realm. Szeth had long since climbed to his feet and sheathed Nightblood. Beside him, the assassin had found a burned-out corpse, mostly eaten by the sword’s attack. That was Rayse, Taravangian’s predecessor, but Szeth wasn’t able to tell. The sword had consumed clothing and most of the flesh, leaving bits of stone-grey bone. Words of Radiance, chapter 32 Quote Then . . . nothing. He couldn’t feel the arm. It turned grey and dull, lifeless, the palm opening, fingers spreading as half of his spear shaft dropped from his fingers and thumped to the ground. DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 29, 2019) Quote tallakahath So, on Nalthis, in the Warbreaker universe, when the color's pulled out of something, is that a physical or chemical change or is that a perceptual change? Brandon Sanderson It is actually a physical change, but the spirit of the thing is changing, and it's filtering through to the Physical Realm. tallakahath So, if I do that on a carrot, I can break beta carotin? If I do that on a piece of metal, I can reduce it and charge my battery that way? Brandon Sanderson Potentially, yeah! Yeah, that would work, you're changing it's Spiritual nature. Idaho Falls signing 2014 (Nov. 29, 2014) Quote PrncRny (paraphrased) What connection is there between Lifeless and Shard-severed limbs? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) They are similar, but different. With Lifeless it's due to the soul being drained away, shrinking to nearly nothing. With Shard-severed limbs, that portion of the soul is sheared clean away. Warbreaker, Ars Arcanum Quote Perfect Invocation: Awakeners of the Tenth Heightening can draw more color from the objects they use to fuel their art. This leaves objects drained to white, rather than grey. Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell Quote The leg wasn’t as bad as Silence had feared. A few of the toes would be lost, but the foot itself was hale enough. The entire left side of William Ann’s body was blackened, as if burned. That would fade, with time, to grey. Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell Quote She rammed her arm in farther. Sparks shot out its back, spraying like a bucket of washwater. Silence gasped at the horrid, icy pain. Her knife slipped from fingers she could no longer feel. She lurched forward, falling to her knees as the second shade fell backward, then began spinning about in a mad spiral. The first one flopped on the ground like a dying fish, trying to rise, its top half falling over. The cold of her arm was so bitter. She stared at the wounded arm, watching the flesh of her hand wither upon itself, pulling in toward the bone. Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell Quote Silence blinked, coming out of the memory as her daughter dumped silver dust on the exposed arm. The withering stopped as William Ann, choking against her thick tears, dumped the entire pouch of emergency silver over the hand. The metal reversed the withering, and the skin turned pink again, the blackness melting away in sparks of white. Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell Quote Silence heaved William Ann into her arms. Too light, the flesh drying. Then she turned and ran with everything she had across the bridge. Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016) Quote Questioner Is Nightblood a minor Shard? Brandon Sanderson Nightblood is one of the most heavily Invested things in the cosmere that is not a Shard. Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015) Quote Questioner Was Nightblood a massive waste of Investiture? Brandon Sanderson There are lots of people of that think Nightblood is a massive waste of Investiture. Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016) Quote yulerule *Written:* How much compounding would a nicrosil Twinborn would need to do to get a metalmind that is as Invested as Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson *Reading question:* How much compounding would... *mumbling* Wow, so much. *Writes:* Wow so much. yulerule *Written:* A thousand breaths doesn't seem to be that much--the God King has tens of thousands. Would a piece of stone, wood, cloth, or plain metal that has a thousand breaths be as Invested as Nightblood, or is there something more? Brandon Sanderson No, it needs more. Needs more. *Writes:* Needs more. yulerule More? Brandon Sanderson Yeah. yulerule Does that-- is it taking stuff from people it kills? Brandon Sanderson That's a RAFO, good question. Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017) Quote Aurimus As the two Realms, the Cognitive and the Spiritual, are, well, fictional... Are they all comprised of Investiture, completely? Brandon Sanderson Yes. No, completely? Well, here's the thing. Investiture, matter, and energy are all the same thing in the cosmere. So, just like energy and matter are the same thing here. So, yes, everything's made of Investiture, in the same way that everything's made of energy in our world. Does that make sense? Aurimus So, what about what spren are made of in the Cognitive Realm? Is that just Investiture? Brandon Sanderson So, yeah, I'll dig more into that. I'm gonna go with Investiture for now, but I could change that as I move along. What I'm kind of debating is, is there a separate Cognitive state, and I don't think so. So I'm gonna go with Investiture for now. Aurimus How about Connection? Brandon Sanderson Connection is, like, the equivalent of a quantum connection in our world, so it's more like a force than something comprised of something. The question is like, "What is gravity comprised of?" And then you start asking weird questions. Rhythm of War, chapter 92-93 epigraphs Quote The bond is what keeps us alive. You sever that, and we will slowly decompose into ordinary souls—with no valid Connection to the Physical or Spiritual Realms. Capture one of us with your knives, and you won’t be left with a spren in a jar, foolish ones. You’ll be left with a being that eventually fades away into the Beyond. I felt it happen to Jezrien. You think you captured him, but our god is Splintered, our Oathpact severed. He faded over the weeks, and is gone now. Beyond your touch at long last. I should welcome the same. I do not. I fear you. Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) Quote Questioner Have we seen cameos of Heralds on other Shardworlds? Brandon Sanderson The Heralds are tied to the system by the magic that permeates them. They could not leave. Questioner I thought I saw someone but I guess not. Brandon Sanderson It’s part of the magic. Some would call them Cognitive Shadows, right? Whether they are or not. "Cognitive Shadow" is a very ambiguous term in the cosmere. It means, basically your soul-- It's the same thing with petrification, right? Investiture replaced your soul, and permeated your soul, and your soul continues to exist, but... you are usually Invested with something, that's tied, and you're basically like pure Investiture then. You're tied to the thing you're Connected to. Most of the things that you're gonna see with that, travelling is going to be very difficult, unless you know how to do it. You have seen people do it. Questioner Who? Brandon Sanderson Vasher Brandon Sanderson Vasher... You have seen people do it. But anyone who's got-- yeah. YouTube Livestream 23 (Dec. 17, 2020) Quote lucagreene18 If Szeth were to have drawn Nightblood immediately after he had consumed Rayse, would he still have drained Szeth's Stormlight? As it said he seemed like he had eaten as much as he could. Brandon Sanderson At that point, Nightblood had entered into essentially a food coma... Well, no, the food coma one came when he was drawing from the perpendicularity. I don't think he was in food coma mode at that point. I think that he could still have drawn more at that point, I'd have to go look at exactly what I wrote, if I'd put him into food coma mode or not. It is possible. This is one of the things I wanted to answer with the book. A lot of people have been theorizing, could Nightblood eat an entire Shard? And indeed, Nightblood could not eat an entire Shard. That is not within his capability. In fact, one of the reasons that he leaks Investiture is: he's too stuffed full of it. There is more Investiture in the sword Nightblood than it can actually hold, it's supersaturated. And it leaks Investiture (that it's done some weird things to). But it is constantly hungry for more and constantly leaks it, but it definitely can get full for a time, and it could not eat an entire Shard. I did see questions about that from people floating around, and it's something I'd been meaning to get to eventually. Nightblood is definitely relevant to things that are happening in the Cosmere, but it is not as simple as grabbing the sword, sticking it into a Shard, and defeating the Shard, unfortunately. Though, as you see in this book, there are reasons for a Shard to still be afraid of Nightblood. It didn't destroy Odium, but Rayse still really had a bad time. Alloy of Law Los Angeles signing (Nov. 10, 2011) Quote Green Hoodie Mistborn Is there any relation between the smoke that is emitted when a Shardblade cuts somebody and the smoke that Nightblood emits in Warbreaker? Brandon Sanderson Yes, there is. Rhythm of War, chapter 97 Quote Raboniel blinked as she stood. “I … put the diamond we created into the hilt of the dagger, then used the tip to draw Voidlight from another gemstone, to mix them. It seemed the best way to see if the two Lights would cancel one another out. I thought … I thought the reaction would be calm, like hot and cold water mixing.…” “Hot and cold water don’t immediately annihilate one another when they meet,” Navani said. “Besides, heat under pressure—like Light in a gemstone—is another matter.” “Yes,” Raboniel said, blinking several times, seeming dazed. “If you use the lightning of a stormform to ignite something under pressure, it always explodes. Perhaps if Voidlight and anti-Voidlight meet in open air, you’d get no more than a pop. But these were inside a gemstone. I have acted with supreme stupidity.” [...] There was no explosion. The Voidlight inside the Fused wasn’t under pressure as it was in a gemstone, perhaps. There was a stench of burning flesh, and the skin blistered around the wound. The younger Fused trembled and screamed, clutching at her mother’s arm with a clawed hand. Then her eyes turned milky, like white marble. She went limp, and Navani thought she saw something escape her lips. Smoke? As if her entire insides had been burned away. Rhythm of War, chapter 116 Quote “I think this might hurt,” El said, then grabbed the Pursuer by the front of his beard. “Enjoy this final Passion, Defeated One.” He plunged the knife down as the Pursuer struggled. And his soul ripped itself apart. Rhythm of War, chapter 2 Quote A flash of pain and white light disrupted Kaladin’s sight. He twisted as he felt the Fused’s grip slacken, then drop. The creature seized Kaladin by his coat, hanging on—a mere shadow to Kaladin’s swimming vision. That was enough. Kaladin swept his hand at the thing’s neck, Syl forming as a side sword. Cut through the gemheart, the head, or the neck with a Blade, and—great powers notwithstanding—the Fused would die. Words of Radiance, prologue Quote If it showed, it was only because she wished it. Liss was the most skilled assassin Jasnah knew. People called her the Weeper, as she gouged out the eyes of the targets she killed. Although she hadn’t coined the cognomen, it served her purpose well, since she had secrets to hide. For one thing, nobody knew that the Weeper was a woman. It was said the Weeper gouged the eyes out to proclaim indifference to whether her victims were lighteyed or dark. The truth was that the action hid a second secret—Liss didn’t want anyone to know that the way she killed left corpses with burned-out sockets. Footnote: There are other sources for the burned-out eyes, but I picked this one since it implies there aren't other obvious visual cues of a Shardblade death, else gouging out the eyes wouldn't keep anything secret. For other sources, it could theoretically just not be mentioned. Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell Quote Silence’s tears felt cold on her face as she ran, wind blowing her. Her daughter trembled and shook in her arms, spasming as she died. She’d become a shade if she died like this. Edited March 29, 2021 by LewsTherinTelescope Changed: made a bit of language less certain-sounding 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 Impressive. Shades are likely weird because of the "wound" on the spiritual realm. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 The smoke leaking from Nightblood is corrupted breaths Quote Brandon Sanderson Anyway, Nightblood is named for the smoke he leaks, and he originally had a different name when he was created. Vasher himself dubbed the sword Nightblood after he had used it to kill the woman he loved. The blackness that leaks out is actually corrupted and consumed Breaths, the ones that Nightblood leeches off anyone who draws him. Warbreaker Annotations (April 25, 2011) Note that the reason Nightblood leaks is because he's oversaturated in investiture Quote lucagreene18 If Szeth were to have drawn Nightblood immediately after he had consumed Rayse, would he still have drained Szeth's Stormlight? As it said he seemed like he had eaten as much as he could. Brandon Sanderson At that point, Nightblood had entered into essentially a food coma... Well, no, the food coma one came when he was drawing from the perpendicularity. I don't think he was in food coma mode at that point. I think that he could still have drawn more at that point, I'd have to go look at exactly what I wrote, if I'd put him into food coma mode or not. It is possible. This is one of the things I wanted to answer with the book. A lot of people have been theorizing, could Nightblood eat an entire Shard? And indeed, Nightblood could not eat an entire Shard. That is not within his capability. In fact, one of the reasons that he leaks Investiture is: he's too stuffed full of it. There is more Investiture in the sword Nightblood than it can actually hold, it's supersaturated. And it leaks Investiture (that it's done some weird things to). But it is constantly hungry for more and constantly leaks it, but it definitely can get full for a time, and it could not eat an entire Shard. I did see questions about that from people floating around, and it's something I'd been meaning to get to eventually. Nightblood is definitely relevant to things that are happening in the Cosmere, but it is not as simple as grabbing the sword, sticking it into a Shard, and defeating the Shard, unfortunately. Though, as you see in this book, there are reasons for a Shard to still be afraid of Nightblood. It didn't destroy Odium, but Rayse still really had a bad time. YouTube Livestream 23 (Dec. 17, 2020) Also there's an important example of skin going grey you seem to have mist, when Kal managed to attract the arrow from nearly all parshendi right before swearing the second idea Quote “Your skin is ashen, lad,” Teft said. “It looks like you did something to yourself back there. I don’t know … I …” He cursed again, smacking his hand against the stone. “I should have listened. Idiot!” Here's my hypothesis: Colour is investiture and when you try to use investiture while you have none you'll use your own essence, starting by the colour of your skin The black in the wounds and the black smoke are corrupted investiture, not in the usual "using the wrong God to power your powers" which give red eyes but in another sense that Brandon didn't make clear yet. For the Shades it'd be a mix of corrupted Ambition and Mercy, for the Fused it'd be part of their soul and spirit being either ripped of their being instead of being destroy or corrupted neutral investiture. For Jezzrien, maybe his connexion to the Oathpatc/his current body? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSub Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 46 minutes ago, mathiau said: The smoke leaking from Nightblood is corrupted breaths Note that the reason Nightblood leaks is because he's oversaturated in investiture Yep 46 minutes ago, mathiau said: Also there's an important example of skin going grey you seem to have mist, when Kal managed to attract the arrow from nearly all parshendi right before swearing the second idea I think there's a simpler explanation. When people are sick their skin is often described as ashen. I think that's all Teft means in this scene. Good work @LewsTherinTelescope. I think your definitely onto something. I don't think I have anything to add but have an upvote. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Just now, KSub said: Yep I think there's a simpler explanation. When people are sick their skin is often described as ashen. I think that's all Teft means in this scene. Good work @LewsTherinTelescope. I think your definitely onto something. I don't think I have anything to add but have an upvote. When people are sick their skin turn white, I'm not a doctor but I'm pretty sure it's because the blood flow near the skin is reduced in order to increase the body temperature. When people over-exert themself their skin turns red for the exact opposite reason. I'm honestly not sure why Kal's skin would have change colour from investiture exertion unless there's a magical process causing it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, mathiau said: The smoke leaking from Nightblood is corrupted breaths That is incredibly vague, though, and we don't know what those "weird things" Brandon refers to are. Additionally, the raysium dagger leaks black smoke after stabbing Jezrien, which presumably is not Breath. 1 hour ago, mathiau said: Colour is investiture and when you try to use investiture while you have none you'll use your own essence, starting by the colour of your skin Hmm, that's an interesting thought, for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSub Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 23 minutes ago, mathiau said: When people are sick their skin turn white, I'm not a doctor but I'm pretty sure it's because the blood flow near the skin is reduced in order to increase the body temperature. When people over-exert themself their skin turns red for the exact opposite reason. I'm honestly not sure why Kal's skin would have change colour from investiture exertion unless there's a magical process causing it. Once when I was at the gym I over exerted myself and my friend said that my skin looked grey. I think it was a lack of oxygen. Could be magical but it could also not be. 5 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: That is incredibly vague, though, and we don't know what those "weird things" Brandon refers to are. Additionally, the raysium dagger leaks black smoke after stabbing Jezrien, which presumably is not Breath. Might be unrelated but Ruins investiture is described as black smoke. And Brandon has said that Nightblood has Ruins investiture. Quote Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018) #1 Walin Does Nightblood contain any of Ruin's Investiture? Like, not atium, but... Brandon Sanderson Yes, technically; and I'm not wiggling around that, because technically, location in the Cosmere and who belongs to what gets really weird, right? Because Ruin's Investiture is everywhere--but I'm not talking that way. I'm talking the way you actually mean it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, KSub said: Once when I was at the gym I over exerted myself and my friend said that my skin looked grey. I think it was a lack of oxygen. Could be magical but it could also not be. Ok. Didn't know it was possible Quote Might be unrelated but Ruins investiture is described as black smoke. And Brandon has said that Nightblood has Ruins investiture. Ruin and Preservation's colour is a weird topic Quote Argent (paraphrased) Ruin and Preservation were often represented in the Mistborn trilogy in terms of black and white. Is this imagery limited to that series, or do other Shards also have an associated hue? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) This (Ruin & Preservation's colors) was because of the specific world and their perception of the world and themselves. Essentially, because of the dynamics of the interplay between Ruin and Preservation, they "chose" to view themselves as black and white respectively, so that's how they were represented. Also, because the only two Shards on Scadrial, and their natures were opposites, after the long period of time they spent on the same planet, they kind of "polarized." If similar thing happened on another world, similar coloring effect could happen. Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013) (btw seon and skaze are respectively black and white implying the same polarization happened on Sel) Quote King Cole What colors are the Shards Preservation and Ruin Associated with? Brandon Sanderson RAFO! Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017) Honestly I have no idea whether Ruin's kinetic investiture should be black or whatever colour he actually is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 15 minutes ago, mathiau said: Honestly I have no idea whether Ruin's kinetic investiture should be black or whatever colour he actually is. You're assuming there is a color Ruin "actually" is beyond things assigned via perception and such. I would disagree with that, personally. Quote Questioner Does each Shard have a favorite, or special, number or color? Brandon Sanderson I would say that there are inclinations but it's not, perhaps, as specific as you are thinking. Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 minute ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: You're assuming there is a color Ruin "actually" is beyond things assigned via perception and such. I would disagree with that, personally. That is good point, but in this other (more recent) WoB he confirmed at least some Shards have a colour. Whether Ruin has one is definitely RAFO though Quote Questioner So, we know in Mistborn there is this running... you can say, motif about Ruin being associated with the color black and Preservation with the color white, we see a lot of very subtle and a lot of very unsubtle... Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yes. Questioner Is such a motif present in any other books? I think I see it in Stormlight. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, in Stormlight you can see it. So, Ruin is a red-gold... not Ruin, Odium. Odium is a red-gold. Honor is a blue-white and Cultivation is green, obviously. So, those motifs stay, when you... when you see a red or a gold, it's a reddish gold sort of thing, either of those colors, it's going to be Odium. Questioner Even when we something we might suspect to be outside influence in other worlds? Brandon Sanderson Not necessarily, because red can also mean corrupted Investiture in the Cosmere. So, I would call Odium's real color gold, because you're going to see red when Odium is corrupting other things, so... Questioner It's not necessarily on Roshar. Brandon Sanderson It's not necessarily Odium. So, you're asking for the invading force on Mistborn, it doesn't necessarily mean Odium because it's red. So red just kind of means corruption. I've talked about that before, so. Not necessarily, not definitive, yeah. Footnote: When Sanderson said "you're asking about the invading force on Mistborn", the questioner made a guilty "caught red-handed" shrug. ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, mathiau said: That is good point, but in this other (more recent) WoB he confirmed at least some Shards have a colour. Whether Ruin has one is definitely RAFO though I would agree some Shards have colors associated with them, but I would argue that those are also due to perception shenanigans (for example, Cultivation ending up associated with green due to an association in people's minds between her and green plants makes sense, I feel). The "Odium's real color" bit just to me sounds like suspicious backtracking because he said something he didn't mean to, imo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSub Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Quote Questioner Does each Shard have a favorite, or special, number or color? Brandon Sanderson I would say that there are inclinations but it's not, perhaps, as specific as you are thinking. Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016)3 I think the problem here is the question. Do shards have a favorite colour? No, but i think their investiture inherently has a colour, just as they have a rhythm/tone. It's the frequency of their investiture producing it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serack Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 You've got a LOT here, and I haven't gotten far yet but I want to bring attention to something that may be relevant to one of your early points. On 1/31/2021 at 1:01 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said: Raysium can conduct Investiture, drawing it from a source on one end and to a gem on the other.[5] While this is not identical to Leeching, I suspect it may behave similarly, and in fact was used for a similar purpose by the Fused.[5] There is a Theory posted on Reddit (that Brandon actually responded to with praise and a RAFO) in response to the translation of some of the in book sketches of the daggers, that the housing that Raboniel claimed wasn't relevant to the function is actually Nicrosil, and thus is relevant to the leeching process you describe above. (link to the thread, and the translations is built into the below WoB quote) Quote Kinolee Is Raboniel lying about the composition of the housing for the ruby in this dagger, or is she telling the truth? Is it really a silver-nickel alloy, or is is it something else (possibly nicrosil)? Brandon Sanderson I'll RAFO this. Interesting conclusions and theories in that post above. Very interesting indeed. General Reddit 2020 (Dec. 9, 2020) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, Serack said: There is a Theory posted on Reddit (that Brandon actually responded to with praise and a RAFO) in response to the translation of some of the in book sketches of the daggers, that the housing that Raboniel claimed wasn't relevant to the function is actually Nicrosil, and thus is relevant to the leeching process you describe above. (link to the thread, and the translations is built into the below WoB quote) Yeah, I saw that. I'm not convinced, especially because flipping the raysium strip is all that's required to flip the direction of the flow, but it's certainly a possibility I don't think can be wholly dismissed as of yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted March 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2021 On 1/31/2021 at 0:01 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said: Now for a harder question: what's the difference between going black and going grey? Answer: I'm.... not sure. Perhaps it has to do with the method of removing the aspects, or the number of aspects damaged or separated, or amount removed, or something else I haven't thought of. Been doing some thinking recently on what the difference between black and grey/white is. In the process, I ran across WoBs where Brandon says that an object being Invested is similar to a supersaturated solution. I will admit my knowledge of what this means is pretty much just from looking up what this means for ten minutes on YouTube, but to my understanding, this refers to like a sort of extra dissolved solute beyond what the solution ordinarily can hold? In that case, perhaps draining to grey and white involves draining off this excess from the spirit, while draining to black involves draining out the Investiture actually required to maintain the spiritweb of the object itself? This could also potentially be what a person having or not having "innate Investiture" means, as well as what lifesense detects. (This may also somehow tie into why extra Preservation was needed to give Scadrians sapience.) On 1/31/2021 at 0:01 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said: Why does it not conduct the aspects of living people? I don't know. Perhaps it only conducts Investiture of a specific kind, and Shadows and spren fall into that category, while spiritwebs and Cognitive aspects do not. That feels reasonable to me. Something I didn't think about: spren cause the lichen on the Taldain sand to go white, which generally means kinetic Investiture. So perhaps the dagger mostly drains kinetic Investiture, but for a Herald, the kinetic Investiture of the CS is tied into the spiritweb, so draining it rips off some of the body's own spiritweb with it, leaving the blackened wound? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 5 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: I ran across WoBs where Brandon says that an object being Invested is similar to a supersaturated solution. The only WoBs I remember about that where specifically about Nightblood, not about every Invested objects Quote draining to black I don't remember any wound staying black, they all became whiter afterward Quote This could also potentially be what a person having or not having "innate Investiture" means, as well as what lifesense detects Matter is investiture, innate Investiture is any investiture the person has in addition to his mass 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted March 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 13 hours ago, mathiau said: The only WoBs I remember about that where specifically about Nightblood, not about every Invested objects Here's the WoBs I was looking at: Invested objects are a bit like supersaturation Allomantic potential (aka the extra bit of Preservation) is like a supersaturated solution Investiture is like a saturated solution 13 hours ago, mathiau said: I don't remember any wound staying black, they all became whiter afterward Do the wounds when NB is stabbed through someone while sheathed turn white? Must've missed that. 13 hours ago, mathiau said: Matter is investiture, innate Investiture is any investiture the person has in addition to his mass I mean, unless Drabs don't have Spiritual or Cognitive aspects, it clearly means more than just that, since they don't have innate Investiture (the WoB might also imply there's planets where the majority does not, but that's speculation on my part). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: Do the wounds when NB is stabbed through someone while sheathed turn white? Must've missed that. No, you didn't miss anything they stay black. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: Do the wounds when NB is stabbed through someone while sheathed turn white? Must've missed that. From the first post here Quote Rayse's remains were grey[24] Just now, Frustration said: No, you didn't miss anything they stay black. Do you have an example? I'm pretty sure in Warbreaker they turned grey. Quote I mean, unless Drabs don't have Spiritual or Cognitive aspects, it clearly means more than just that, since they don't have innate Investiture (the WoB might also imply there's planets where the majority does not, but that's speculation on my part). Matter has Spiritual and Cognitive aspects, that's how Soulcasting and Forgery works 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Frustration said: No, you didn't miss anything they stay black. Though remnants of Rayse were stone-grey, but they were mostly bones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, mathiau said: Do you have an example? I'm pretty sure in Warbreaker they turned grey. 1 minute ago, therunner said: Though remnants of Rayse were stone-grey, but they were mostly bones. Rayse also was not completly destroyed as most things are when they are cut by Nightblood when fully drawn, so Vessels are weird. As for Warbreaker Tonk Fah, and Denth are discussing Vasher's killing of Arsteel and they bring up how the wound wasn't blackened, along with all the other times NIghtblood is used. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted March 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 Just now, mathiau said: From the first post here Quote Rayse's remains were grey[24] I'd just taken that as the sword being too full to drain personally, myself. Could be wrong. 1 minute ago, mathiau said: Do you have an example? I'm pretty sure in Warbreaker they turned grey. To me this implies the black remains for at least a while: Quote Jewels snorted. “Word’s all over. People being found slaughtered in alleyways, the wounds corrupt and black. Sightings of a new, powerful Awakener roaming the city carrying a black-handled sword in a silver sheath. It’s Tax, all right. Goes by a different name now.” I feel this bit also implies the darkness would last: Quote “There was no blackness around the wound,” Jewels said. “Then he cut the blackness out,” Tonk Fah snapped, watching Denth belt a sword to his waist. “There’s no way Vasher beat Arsteel in a fair duel. No way.” Area around wounds goes either grey or white, wounds themselves black (it's unclear how long this is after they were killed): Quote She turned back. In the growing morning light, she could see something she’d missed before. The skin directly around the sword wounds had been completely drained of color. The wounds themselves had a dark black tinge to them. As if they had been infected with some terrible disease. 6 minutes ago, mathiau said: Matter has Spiritual and Cognitive aspects, that's how Soulcasting and Forgery works Considering how different the Cognitive aspects are for living creatures vs other things, it'd surprise me if the aspects of a person are just the aspects of the body, especially considering things like the separation of aspects that occurs despite the corpse remaining behind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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