The Nightwatcher

[Maddie The Survivor]

Ok, tbh I think it will probably happen. Who do you think the Nightwatcher will bond if anyone? In my opinion I think Brandon will make it someone unexpected. I was thinking maybe Adolin but then I thought that all three Bondsmiths would be Kholins.

let me know your thoughts! 

[Honorless]

I think Adolin Bonding with Maya is inevitable at this point. The Nightwatcher might remain free, just because there can be three Bondsmiths doesn't mean there needs to be three Bondsmiths during this time. That being said, I want a Nightwatcher Bondsmith and think that it's very likely that we'll actually get a Nightwatcher Bondsmith. Who that will be, I cannot yet foresee. I think most people thought Taravangian was gonna Bond her, which isn't possible anymore. Others thought Rlain, but that isn't possible anymore either. Yet others thought Navani might become the Nightwatcher Bondsmith, well, she became a Bondsmith alright. I don't think we'll see a double spren Bondsmith, or probably even a double-Bond Radiant, definitely not a double-Bond Radiant where one of the Bonded spren is one of the three Bondsmith spren. So, I'm not counting anyone who's already a Radiant or solidly on the way as a candidate. Maybe a new character, or a secondary character will rise to the occasion, like Yanagawn or the Mink.

[Szmit]

There were 3 people who met Cultivation personally that we know of, Dalinar (of Honor) Taravangian (of Odium) and Lift, who got really close to her. Also Wyndle can die now that there is anti Stormlight, and she is supposed to be one of the future main characters of Stormlight.

[Bejarden]

If it does happen it will be back half there just isn't enough time in book five

[Honorless]

Just now, Bejardin1250 said:

If it does happen it will be back half there just isn't enough time in book five

Book 5 was originally planned to be the Bondsmith book, and book 3 the Skybreaker book, so I could see it happening in Book 5.

[Bejarden]

Just now, Honorless said:

Book 5 was originally planned to be the Bondsmith book, and book 3 the Skybreaker book, so I could see it happening in Book 5.

We just had 2 straight books with bondsmith ( and book 5 was going to be dalinar I think) and I think it would get repetitive for every book to get a bondsmith ( I guess that dalinar bonded stormfather in book 2 but still there's going to be a large break)

[teknopathetic]

It confuses me why the the alliance haven't sent people to speak with the Nightwatcher... You'd think they'd anyone they thought might be plausible to go investigate. 

For who? I don't know. I cant think of anyone who binds people together through cultivation, animal husbandry, or farming. Maybe some Shin person?

Edited January 31, 2021 by teknopathetic

[Proletariat]

TBH the most interesting thing would be if one of the Sleepless bonded the Nightwatcher. I worry that whoever bonded the Nightwatcher would be locked into staying where she waits to grant wishes to people as there is no other source of Lifelight, and thereby would not be part of the story with everyone else. A Sleepless could potentially act as a Bondsmith from afar, and I don't want a boring Bondsmith that isn't part of the story. 

[jamesbondsmith]

43 minutes ago, Proletariat said:

TBH the most interesting thing would be if one of the Sleepless bonded the Nightwatcher. I worry that whoever bonded the Nightwatcher would be locked into staying where she waits to grant wishes to people as there is no other source of Lifelight, and thereby would not be part of the story with everyone else. A Sleepless could potentially act as a Bondsmith from afar, and I don't want a boring Bondsmith that isn't part of the story. 

Dalinar is able to use his abilities when the Stormfather is a literal continent away, so I feel like proximity isn't really an issue for Bondsmiths (unless that is a unique case because his spren is so mobile, or due to the power boost from Honor). Perhaps the Nightwatcher Bondsmith can use touch to infuse Lifelight much like Dalinar can.

Does the prohibition that lead to Singers being denied Radiance for so long apply to other sentient creatures? That might discount a Sleepless.

I haven't read Dawnshard so I can't comment on the characters there.

11 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

It confuses me why the the alliance haven't sent people to speak with the Nightwatcher... You'd think they'd anyone they thought might be plausible to go investigate. 

For who? I don't know. I cant think of anyone who binds people together through cultivation, animal husbandry, or farming. Maybe some Shin person?

I'm starting to think that alignment with the 'intent' of the respective Godspren's Shard doesn't mean a whole bunch when determining a Bondsmith. I still struggle to figure out what is inherently honourable about uniting people. Unity isn't a bad thing, but IMO it doesn't inherently mean 'follow through on your promises' or 'doing what you believe is right' as per dictionary definitions. I feel like the part of Dalinar's Third Ideal that isn't part of the baseline oath (I will take responsibility for what I have done) is the most inherently honourable thing he's sworn to so far. Navani's general air of 'we'll deal with the imprisonment and bisection of spren later' doesn't gel too well with the child of Honor either.

We haven't heard any more than the generic First Ideal from Navani, so we don't know what she is swearing to and therefore can't make much of a pattern. It is worth noting that both our current Bondsmiths essentially bullied or coerced their spren into accepting the bond. Perhaps this is part of the process, to show you have the strength of will to be an equal partner of such a powerful entity, but it still implies that possessing certain characteristics is secondary when it comes to Bondsmiths.

It might be that we just have to find someone sufficiently strong willed to force the Nightwatcher into accepting the bond, in which case I might think of Queen Fen or the Mink. If we go for double bonds, Jasnah is also strong willed and is attempting to reform society. Kaladin is also trying to heal people's mental traumas/cultivate a healthier mental state for his patients.

[Proletariat]

4 hours ago, jamesbondsmith said:

Dalinar is able to use his abilities when the Stormfather is a literal continent away, so I feel like proximity isn't really an issue for Bondsmiths (unless that is a unique case because his spren is so mobile, or due to the power boost from Honor). Perhaps the Nightwatcher Bondsmith can use touch to infuse Lifelight much like Dalinar can.

Does the prohibition that lead to Singers being denied Radiance for so long apply to other sentient creatures? That might discount a Sleepless.

I haven't read Dawnshard so I can't comment on the characters there.

This WOB indicates that it's bc the Stormfather is kind of everywhere: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/73-shadows-of-self-san-francisco-signing/#e4268

So unless Nightwatcher becomes mobile, or her bonded Radiant is a Sleepless, then we're not going to see them very much. Which I am sad about bc TBH I kind of want a corny moment where all of the Bondsmiths are together and work together to storm rust up.

EDIT: omg these fake swear words the forums put in are lol

Edited February 1, 2021 by Proletariat

[teknopathetic]

1 hour ago, Proletariat said:

This WOB indicates that it's bc the Stormfather is kind of everywhere: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/73-shadows-of-self-san-francisco-signing/#e4268

So unless Nightwatcher becomes mobile, or her bonded Radiant is a Sleepless, then we're not going to see them very much. Which I am sad about bc TBH I kind of want a corny moment where all of the Bondsmiths are together and work together to storm rust up.

EDIT: omg these fake swear words the forums put in are lol

I disagree. The stormfather states that relationships were common between the stormfather and the Nightwatcher bondsmiths. Since the hub of the world was the tower, this implies to me that the Nightwatcher bondsmith was equally mobile. 

[KSub]

There certainly doesn't need to be 3 bondsmiths. However it seems odd for Brandon to set up this mysterious spren and almost never show it.

Lift is definitely near the top of the list of candidates to bond her. I would also say Rock and Rysn are high on my list.

[jamesbondsmith]

Just now, teknopathetic said:

I disagree. The stormfather states that relationships were common between the stormfather and the Nightwatcher bondsmiths. Since the hub of the world was the tower, this implies to me that the Nightwatcher bondsmith was equally mobile. 

Well, long distance might be an option, and this is a world with oathgates and Windrunner Airlines. 

Is the Nightwatcher actually bound in one place, though? That might solve the mobility issue.

I feel like narratively, if you set up the possibility of three bondsmiths there should be three of them.

[KSub]

1 minute ago, jamesbondsmith said:

Well, long distance might be an option, and this is a world with oathgates and Windrunner Airlines. 

Is the Nightwatcher actually bound in one place, though? That might solve the mobility issue.

I feel like narratively, if you set up the possibility of three bondsmiths there should be three of them.

I don't think we know if the Nightwatcher is bound to the valley but her description is quite ephemeral. It seems likely she can move freely.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, KSub said:

There certainly doesn't need to be 3 bondsmiths. However it seems odd for Brandon to set up this mysterious spren and almost never show it.

there are six more books.

[Voscaia]

6 hours ago, KSub said:

Lift is definitely near the top of the list of candidates to bond her. I would also say Rock and Rysn are high on my list.

Rock maybe, Rysn certainly not.

Spoiler

Except she releases the Dawnshard

 

[+Bzhydack]

7 hours ago, KSub said:

There certainly doesn't need to be 3 bondsmiths. However it seems odd for Brandon to set up this mysterious spren and almost never show it.

Lift is definitely near the top of the list of candidates to bond her. I would also say Rock and Rysn are high on my list.

Rock is very likely candidate. He is person all readers know and mostly like. He don't have spren yet. He now travels to the Peaks - where is Cultivation's Perpendicularity. And he is going to Gods to be judge, for breaking laws. 

And Horneaters Gods are Spren, so is likely for him to meet Nightwatcher and being judged by her.

[Leuthie]

8 hours ago, jamesbondsmith said:

Well, long distance might be an option, and this is a world with oathgates and Windrunner Airlines. 

Is the Nightwatcher actually bound in one place, though? That might solve the mobility issue.

I feel like narratively, if you set up the possibility of three bondsmiths there should be three of them.

Why are we even assuming the Nightwatcher isn't mobile? Its Physical form is a nymph-like woman. Why wouldn't she be able to leave her forest?

The Sibling is the spren of a specific building that doesn't move. We don't even know what the Nightwatcher is the spren of, but I can't imagine it's something that's stuck in one place like Urithiru. 

The current Cultivation "training" program (the boons and curses as a way to learn about humanity) that seems to be going on with Nightwatcher takes place in a single place. That doesn't even imply that Nightwatcher can't move.

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, Leuthie said:

The Sibling is the spren of a specific building that doesn't move. We don't even know what the Nightwatcher is the spren of, but I can't imagine it's something that's stuck in one place like Urithiru. 

Spren of Spren is a common theory.

[KSub]

11 hours ago, Frustration said:

Spren of Spren is a common theory.

Can there be a spren of a spren? It's like an idea of an idea.

[+Bzhydack]

32 minutes ago, KSub said:

Can there be a spren of a spren? It's like an idea of an idea.

Theoreticly Idea has some meaning, idea behind some concept.

But other opinion is Nightwatcher is associated with plants and growth. Because of close association with Cultivation.

[Shob the Voidbringer]

okay last night i actually had a bizarre, but interesting theory.

what it was moash

i don't know if i'll be hated for this, but i don't completely hate moash, and moash doesn't seem like he'll die yet. it would be really cool for him to get a semi-redemption arc, and he could act as an agent of cultivation. on top of this, due to his power over connection as a bondsmith, he could possibly go to other planets, or just work around roshar. lastly, he kinda has a reason to go to the nightwatcher, because he's now blind. when i came up with this i was really excited by it, and it seems pretty plausible. anyone got any thoughts on it?

Edited February 2, 2021 by Shob the Voidbringer

[Kyn]

37 minutes ago, Shob the Voidbringer said:

moash doesn't seem like he'll die yet. it would be really cool for him to get a semi-redemption arc, and he could act as an agent of cultivation.

I very much doubt Moash. I can see the extremity of his actions to cut off part of himself as seeming like pruning; but then, the change he made in himself didn’t give him more room for growth, it stuck him at a specific plateau. Getting rid of his emotions and connections – his humanity, essentially – was a choice to excise the one thing Cultivation seems to want the Nightwatcher to grasp. I guess if Moash is forced to accept his humanity back, he could relate with the Nightwatcher’s journey to understand humanity that had been so distant, but that still leaves him out of alignment with Cultivation’s Intent.

To me, even if Moash is somehow redeemed, someone who chose to stagnate – to remove all potential for growth save as a tool or killer, to refuse to admit to being wrong as is typically necessary in order to change, and gave up parts of himself so he wouldn’t have to hurt and develop – would be a terrible fit for the understudy of a being that is geared toward growth.

To be fair, I don’t know who is a good fit for the Nightwatcher – and it’s more than possible bonding with her requires something entirely different than potential for growth or willingness to enact change. But Cultivation would want the Nightwatcher to bond with someone who could advance her humanity, if anyone. And the Nightwatcher’s curiosity in this regard suggests she’d want someone who embraced their humanity rather than discarding it.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Kyn

[Shob the Voidbringer]

don't want to start a argument, but lets just note the 3rd ideal of the bondsmiths, if i must fall, i will rise a better man. this seems more than a little perfect for a redemption arc. 

4 minutes ago, Kyn said:

To be fair, I don’t know who is a good fit for the Nightwatcher – and it’s more than possible bonding with her requires something entirely different than potential for growth or willingness to enact change. But Cultivation would want the Nightwatcher to bond with someone who could advance her humanity, if anyone. And the Nightwatcher’s curiosity in this regard suggests she’d want someone who embraced their humanity rather than discarding it.

to this, i feel that this could be why she would bond him, his growth would be accepting his pain and humanity, and cultivation could use this to teach the nightwatcher, teaching another the importance of something often strengthens it for you, it's shown in movies, books, and i've honestly experienced it, so i feel that cultivation would see this as the best for her. i do see that moash has for now stopped his ability to grow by giving up his humanity, but if he gets past that, then his growth would spectacular. i completely understand why you doubt him, and i hate the things he did, but 1) this is a thread where we're theorizing, and 2)  he's hit rock bottom, and that is the best place to start, from where you'll see and understand the importance of your growth. personally, i wouldn't be satisfied if he died in the next book, or if he were just a character that roams around doing nothing and the dies. also, this is the perfect opportunity for cultivation to get a helper. it's easiest to prune a bush with clippers, and she could use moash as hers. also a line that could be seen as foreshadowing, when moash meets with odium, moash remarks on how people are starting to believe that he's his avatar, and odium says that he wouldn't bestow such an honor on a mortal. who's to say a different shard wouldn't? also, i never said this theory was likely, but just that it was intriguing. i'm pretty sure this is the longest post i've done, so i'm sorry if it sound's like a rant.

[KSub]

Personally, Damnation take Moash.

But I'll give you my opinion on why he won't be a Bondsmith. Moash and Szeths stories share a lot. The key difference between them is Szeth did everything he did because he believed he had to. Moash does everything because he feels they deserve it. When Szeth reachs his lowest hes weeping and begging for death while continuing to do what he thinks he has to. Moash does what he wants, giving up any responsibility. In the end his only goal is to prove Kaladin is wrong for believing people can be good. What a cremling.

Thats why Moash has been a terrible person and how we haven't seen any remorse from him to suggest he can change. 

Now, if he went to the Nightwatcher he would not come away well. Many people go to the nightwatcher, most regret that choice and I think those who come for personal gain are those who get the worst deal. Dalinar asked for forgiveness, Lift asked to remain who she was and their curses seem to have been more a gift. Taravangian asked for the capacity to save humanity but its yet to be determined if he will regret his visit.

If Moash went to the nightwatcher he would likely ask for a weapon to destroy anyone who crossed  him. He would be given Nightblood and then immediately draw it to kill the nightwatcher only to have Nightblood do its thing.

Edited February 3, 2021 by KSub