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Mid-Range Game 48: The Southern Wind


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36 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Last cycle I followed Quinn’s vote onto BrightEyes when I read her as slight elim. Today I’m voting Quinn when I read you as slight elim.

Sounds legit

EDIT:

1 minute ago, Condensation said:

Keep in mind that even if I'm an elim - which is definitely true - that there are likely others.

mmm. I don't buy it :P.

Edited by Illwei
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34 minutes ago, Kings_way said:

Actually, if Connie is elim there definitely are others, unless Orlock was trying a really weird inactivity strat. 

 

Well of course there’s gonna be more than one elim :P 

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Just now, Quintessential said:

:ph34r: or is there...

*Gasps* *Eats popcorn as if this is a movie* I wonder what will happen!

(That was useless, so I'll try and put in something useful now... In role play form, because that is more fun! By the way, the next stuff is gut instinct, not logical. I can't find evidence for anyone being an elim)

First of the Stars calmly walked through the ship with Tili perched on her shoulder. Things were starting to come together, but she had no concrete evidence for anything yet. She had only her instincts as a trapper, and what her companions on the ship had said to guide her. Her instincts were telling her not to trust Sixth of the Twilight (Kings_Way), and so she didn't. She had no conclusive proof, and might rescind her vote later, but she felt it was what she should do.

(If anyone has reasons for me to not vote for Kings_Way, please tell me them. I like logic, and would prefer to have this based on logic.)

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17 hours ago, Random Bystander said:

Dang it! We lost 2 more.

People already said this, but I agree this seems performative. They get some leniency for being a new player, but that can't last forever. I'm actually reading them slight vil because (refer to later section)

15 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Uh, Mat... "here" is an error message.

...Huh, guess merging the thread messed that up :P.

That's mostly void now though, because I don't really see Liranil being an elim unless Illwei is also. That's because of things Illwei said at the beginning of this cycle, mostly- and I don't think I trust my own gut enough to kill one of them yet :P But I'll be watching, and if I get NK'd you all might want to refer to this post.

1 minute ago, Random Bystander said:

(If anyone has reasons for me to not vote for Kings_Way, please tell me them. I like logic, and would prefer to have this based on logic.)

I'm actually reading you slight vil because of this- it's a reasonable vote. And I do think the performative post wasn't meant that way, cause you're new. I can't decide if Quinn bringing this up so fast is a reason to elim read her, or if that's just me diving into a rabbit hole. If Quinn is elim I don't think Illwei/Liranil are.

Other thoughts... I don't like the Connie train. It feels pointless.

And yeah, I think I changed my mind... Illwei.

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19 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Other thoughts... I don't like the Connie train. It feels pointless.

/shrug

I will almost always vote for someone if they claim Elim. Because there’s really no reason for a Vil to do that. All it does is add confusion and benefit the Elims. 

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22 minutes ago, Random Bystander said:

First of the Stars calmly walked through the ship with Tili perched on her shoulder. Things were starting to come together, but she had no concrete evidence for anything yet. She had only her instincts as a trapper, and what her companions on the ship had said to guide her. Her instincts were telling her not to trust Sixth of the Twilight (Kings_Way), and so she didn't. She had no conclusive proof, and might rescind her vote later, but she felt it was what she should do.

I'll join you on Kings_Way. They haven't posted much but this post...

1 hour ago, Kings_way said:

Actually, if Connie is elim there definitely are others, unless Orlock was trying a really weird inactivity strat. 

...indicates that they're paying attention. I'd expect a mostly inactive player jumping in just now to at least mention that they need to catch up on stuff, right? But Kings gives no explanation for their absence and seems to be perfectly well aware what's going on (knowing that Orlok was mostly inactive but there were still elim kills so Orlok couldn't be a singular elim? right?). Maybe I'm reading into that too much but whatever.

21 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I'm actually reading you slight vil because of this- it's a reasonable vote. And I do think the performative post wasn't meant that way, cause you're new. I can't decide if Quinn bringing this up so fast is a reason to elim read her, or if that's just me diving into a rabbit hole. If Quinn is elim I don't think Illwei/Liranil are.

...why would it make me elim to bring that up so fast? It was one of like three posts in the thread at the time, and it seemed off to me. Why wouldn't I bring it up?

22 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

And yeah, I think I changed my mind... Illwei.

Reasoning?

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3 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

...why would it make me elim to bring that up so fast? It was one of like three posts in the thread at the time, and it seemed off to me. Why wouldn't I bring it up?

From an elim mindset, they want a misexe, and if they can jump on something that seems reasonable early on, they will. But you're right, and that's why I didn't really go with it.

4 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

Reasoning?

To me, Illwei seems different this game somehow, in their reasonings and the specific things they're pointing out. Admittedly part of it is due to their tie to Liranil, but that is still left to be seen if it actually goes anywhere. It's mostly a gut read.

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22 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I can't decide if Quinn bringing this up so fast is a reason to elim read her

22 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

but I agree this seems performative.

Sounds legit.

1 minute ago, Dannex said:

All it does is add confusion and benefit the Elims

I will disagree....somewhat. with this.

I personally think that since claiming Elim is NAI there's zero reason to...pay attention to it? at all. I would also say that...I think there's a level of chaos that also doesn't benefit the Elims? I think it's easy for them to hide in chaos, if they're wanting to be chaotic, but I also think that sometimes- I can't explain this well so like never mind :P. Still disagree somewhat :P.

TJ's Posts:

Spoiler
Quote
On 2/9/2021 at 8:05 PM, Matrim's Dice said:

All in all, I know I’m not the only one to share these suspicions as evidenced by comments from both last cycle and today. I’m confused as to why my vote was singular today and C1 and propose this exe as much more grounded than any other we have at the moment.

Your vote was singular because while I suspect Liranil, I suspect you as well so I'm confused to whom I should go for. This post did make me feel a little better about you.

On 2/9/2021 at 8:05 PM, Matrim's Dice said:

TJ’s vote comes from BrightEyes’ under the radar ness while in their village game they weren’t like that.

Just one of the reason. The other is that they were content RPing, so their sudden concern and the ping for VC feels off to me. Especially when they didn't follow it up with a vote.

On 2/9/2021 at 8:05 PM, Matrim's Dice said:

BrightEyes would be my second choice of the current candidates (a fairly easy decision :P) and if I have to self pres it will go there.

On 2/9/2021 at 9:00 PM, Matrim's Dice said:

........Illwei????

????

Edit: We need more people discussing this than just the ones up for the grinch -.- 

Quote

Y'all seeee you guys are just recycling votes among yourselves -_-' Makes me think all of you are village because no one else seem to be caring??

Quote

Okaaay from this little circle on interactions I conclude:

Matrim cares who dies between Liranil and Illwei - Likely village
Illwei cares who dies between Matrim and Liranil - Likely village
Liranil - Not as likely as village as the above two, but responded calmly to the differences when mentioned by Illwei. Didn't feel like she's been "caught" or anything like that. Feel like it was continuation of her thoughts, not something fabricated to escape whatever Illwei sprung up on her. And little things here and there mentioned which feels too perceptive to appear from an elim.

I wouldn't want any of the three grinched in this cycle. No one wants to vote for BrightEyes. Quintessential.

Oh, you thought you were getting commentary on this from me? hah.

...

Oh okay fine

He outwardly suspects Liranil (...well, a teeny tiny bit??), and votes on Quinn. I feel like E!Quinn Killing him for his reads would be a strangely obvious thing to do, so I don't think that- unless there's a Quinn/Liranil team? then maybe? but if he was village reading Liranil that makes no sense to me so idk yall figure out your thoughts.

 

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3 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I personally think that since claiming Elim is NAI there's zero reason to...pay attention to it? at all. I would also say that...I think there's a level of chaos that also doesn't benefit the Elims? I think it's easy for them to hide in chaos, if they're wanting to be chaotic, but I also think that sometimes- I can't explain this well so like never mind :P. Still disagree somewhat :P.

You may not be able to explain this but I can, having been on the receiving end of it. When enough players in a game are chaotic enough, the elims can never be sure what's going to happen. The village vig, who had hitherto suspected none of them, might decide to shoot one of them in the last five minutes of rollover (QF50 C2). The exe target might switch to an unsuspecting villager at the last minute (QF50 C2) and if that person was your NK target... (I mean, Ash wasn't but it's still something that you have to worry about with chaos). Or the exe target might switch to an elim last-minute (QF50 C1). and so on and so forth. If the elims can't predict what villagers are going to do, they can't react to it, and it makes their job a lot harder (I'm sorry, but the first 3 cycles of QF50 were a nightmare for the elim team so that's where my examples are coming from).

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8 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I personally think that since claiming Elim is NAI there's zero reason to...pay attention to it? at all. I would also say that...I think there's a level of chaos that also doesn't benefit the Elims? I think it's easy for them to hide in chaos, if they're wanting to be chaotic, but I also think that sometimes- I can't explain this well so like never mind :P. Still disagree somewhat :P.

 

1 minute ago, Quintessential said:

You may not be able to explain this but I can, having been on the receiving end of it. When enough players in a game are chaotic enough, the elims can never be sure what's going to happen. The village vig, who had hitherto suspected none of them, might decide to shoot one of them in the last five minutes of rollover (QF50 C2). The exe target might switch to an unsuspecting villager at the last minute (QF50 C2) and if that person was your NK target... (I mean, Ash wasn't but it's still something that you have to worry about with chaos). Or the exe target might switch to an elim last-minute (QF50 C1). and so on and so forth. If the elims can't predict what villagers are going to do, they can't react to it, and it makes their job a lot harder (I'm sorry, but the first 3 cycles of QF50 were a nightmare for the elim team so that's where my examples are coming from).

This is true to a degree, but that's not what I meant anyway. I said, "All it does is add confusion and benefit the Elims", meaning "1. All it does is add confusion, and 2. It benefits the elims." 2 separate things, not that it benefits the Elims by being chaotic, but that claiming Elim does both independently. My point was that there's just no reason for a villager to do it. 

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Just now, Illwei said:

Have you considered

  Reveal hidden contents

FUN

 

oh gosh not this discussion agaon

Claiming elim is 100% directly contrasting with the village wincon, so I do not think fun outweighs it in this case. 

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2 minutes ago, Dannex said:

This is true to a degree, but that's not what I meant anyway. I said, "All it does is add confusion and benefit the Elims", meaning "1. All it does is add confusion, and 2. It benefits the elims." 2 separate things, not that it benefits the Elims by being chaotic, but that claiming Elim does both independently. My point was that there's just no reason for a villager to do it. 

Right, I guess I should have mentioned that I think the kind of chaos caused by a villager claiming elim who's never done so before is not the kind that hurts the elims. Because worst case scenario, people decide to trust that villager for it (great, obvious NK target!), and best case scenario that person gets mix'd for it (from the elims' perspective I mean). There is no situation in which a villager claiming elim hurts the elims, as far as I can tell.

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Just now, Dannex said:

Claiming elim is 100% directly contrasting with the village wincon, so I do not think fun outweighs it in this case. 

I also disagree with this. Claiming elim is really not that big of a deal. Easiest thing to do is just ignore it (in terms of actual reads--yes I know I voted Connie but I wasn't planning to keep my vote there : P). Just because someone says something about themself doesn't mean they're telling the truth--or that they're lying. Trying to seriously analyze elim claims is just an endless IKYK/WIFOM situation waiting to happen. 

Yeah, my thoughts on elim claims: they're harmless and probably best ignored for the most part.

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11 minutes ago, Dannex said:

Claiming elim is 100% directly contrasting with the village wincon, so I do not think fun outweighs it in this case. 

So there's a complete different imo between claiming elim (which multiple people have done in this game, see: Me, Quinn, (Mat?, (did Gears claim Elim this game?)) And going out of your way to find an Elim in PMs and actively 3rd Imposter (we can use amongus terms in this game, right? :P). If your argument here is that Claiming Elim is a harmful playstyle then I have to strongly disagree.

EDIT:

Point unclear just like mine always are

Claiming Elim only directly contradicts the village wincon if your intent/the outcome is to be a mis-grinch so that the Elims are that much closer. Which I have never seen been the intent. :P. At worst it's a meaningless joke - At best it's some sort of masterful reaction test that will single-handedly catch all the Elims. (though,,,I haven't seen that one yet. would be nice :P)

EDIT:

Also catch Quinn sheeping me i guess

for real not a fan of Quinn's approach to Liranil and I guess kinda me

EDIT:

Also Yeah Matrim and I have really not been on the same page this game so what's up with that :thinking:

Edited by Illwei
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1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Other thoughts... I don't like the Connie train. It feels pointless.

That's the point

47 minutes ago, Dannex said:

I will almost always vote for someone if they claim Elim. Because there’s really no reason for a Vil to do that. All it does is add confusion and benefit the Elims. 

16 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Have you considered

  Reveal hidden contents

FUN

 

^this

What Illwei said.

I've literally been laughing and laughing ever since I decided to claim elim. It's just... so much fun. :lol::D

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1 minute ago, Condensation said:

I've literally been laughing and laughing ever since I decided to claim elim. It's just... so much fun. :lol::D

You just gotta be sure not to lean to much into it because then they actually might kill you and- Well I left some comments in the doc if you'd go read those... :P.

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Just now, Illwei said:

You just gotta be sure not to lean to much into it because then they actually might kill you and- Well I left some comments in the doc if you'd go read those... :P.

I mean... I almost want to just go crazy this game and not care about my wincon. I've been an elim, I've won at least twice!

But yeah, I guess I'll tone it down.

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