Guest Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 Like the title says, just how soft are the gemstones on Roshar? And for that matter, why? In at least 2 scenes in Rhythm of War, Navani cracks a gemstone with what seems like casual ease. Has anyone here ever actually tried to crack a diamond? I've got a fairly large (3/4" long) not gem quality diamond, and I once balanced a toonie on top of it and then smashed it with a hammer as hard as I could. The toonie separated (goal achieved), and the face on the coin took on the shape of the stone, but the diamond was totally unaffected. If a "crap" real-world diamond can take that, how much force does it take to actually crack one? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, LabRat said: Like the title says, just how soft are the gemstones on Roshar? And for that matter, why? In at least 2 scenes in Rhythm of War, Navani cracks a gemstone with what seems like casual ease. Has anyone here ever actually tried to crack a diamond? I've got a fairly large (3/4" long) not gem quality diamond, and I once balanced a toonie on top of it and then smashed it with a hammer as hard as I could. The toonie separated (goal achieved), and the face on the coin took on the shape of the stone, but the diamond was totally unaffected. If a "crap" real-world diamond can take that, how much force does it take to actually crack one? Well, remember, it depends on the angle your doing it. The cleavage of the diamond is far harder to break than other parts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegia Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, LabRat said: Like the title says, just how soft are the gemstones on Roshar? And for that matter, why? That's a good question. Never thought about it, but you are right: Spoiler Szeth is also shown breaking gemstones with ease by simply tossing them against a wall. It seems they CAN'T be the same things we think of when we say the words "diamond", "ruby" or "sapphire". They are really gemhearts, of course, grown inside native Rosharan animals. Their chemical composition is unknown. More importantly, why'd you want to break a toonie? Didn't you just take something worth $2 and make it worth... $0? Edited January 28, 2021 by AquaRegia despoilerfication 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 19 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: More importantly, why'd you want to break a toonie? Didn't you just take something worth $2 and make it worth... $0? Boredom and curiosity. I was wondering how the parts held together, pre-internet-everywhere days 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Hi, Rhythm of War content must go in our dedicated spoiler boards. I have moved it there for you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 54 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: It seems they CAN'T be the same things we think of when we say the words "diamond", "ruby" or "sapphire". They are really gemhearts, of course, grown inside native Rosharan animals. Their chemical composition is unknown. Yeah, but we know Scadrian gems will have the same properties of holding Stormlight, so they have the same structure. Maybe this is Stormlight effect. Gems are under constant innate pressure caused by Stormlight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, LabRat said: Like the title says, just how soft are the gemstones on Roshar? And for that matter, why? In at least 2 scenes in Rhythm of War, Navani cracks a gemstone with what seems like casual ease. Has anyone here ever actually tried to crack a diamond? I've got a fairly large (3/4" long) not gem quality diamond, and I once balanced a toonie on top of it and then smashed it with a hammer as hard as I could. The toonie separated (goal achieved), and the face on the coin took on the shape of the stone, but the diamond was totally unaffected. If a "crap" real-world diamond can take that, how much force does it take to actually crack one? 43 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: That's a good question. Never thought about it, but you are right: Hide contents Szeth is also shown breaking gemstones with ease by simply tossing them against a wall. It seems they CAN'T be the same things we think of when we say the words "diamond", "ruby" or "sapphire". They are really gemhearts, of course, grown inside native Rosharan animals. Their chemical composition is unknown. More importantly, why'd you want to break a toonie? Didn't you just take something worth $2 and make it worth... $0? It’s possible the gems are just badly flawed. Cutting a perfect gem is HARD. I have a pair of earrings with four perfectly cut diamonds in each. The diamonds are tiny. There are very few people who can cut a perfect gem, especially today. Today my earrings (which belonged to my Mom first) would have diamond chips, not cut diamonds because cutting diamonds that tiny is actually very hard. Diamond chips are, well, chips. They aren’t great quality but they look pretty. If I’m recalling correctly, Szeth was throwing spheres, which only contain chips. Chips would crack fairly easily I’d think. Larger gems usually have flaws. The larger the gem, the more flaws it has. (Usually) Most ‘perfect’ gemstones have had the flaws lasered out, which actually diminishes the gem’s value (for those who know, anyway). My diamond ring has two flaws, though most people won’t see them. (I know to look, and I can still only find one.) A badly flawed gem can crack pretty easily. And a crack is all that’s needed for Stormlight to go free. If you know what you’re doing you could crack a lot of gems. Hitting a diamond full on with a hammer probably won’t break it. Diamonds are brittle, but they don’t smash easily. Smashing just diffuses the force. Go at it at an angle with a nail and a hammer where the flaws are. It should crack. (Though why you’d want to crack a diamond...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegia Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: If I’m recalling correctly, Szeth was throwing spheres, which only contain chips. Chips would crack fairly easily I’d think. No, these are large rubies, given to Taravangian by Renarin, which contain Enlightened spren from Sja-Anat. I'd think the protective mother would use good-quality gems to transport her precious children. Of course, anything can be broken, including gemstones. But the ones we are talking about - diamonds, rubies, emeralds, sapphires - they are some of the hardest and toughest materials known. That's part of the reason they are prized as jewelry. There are a lot of conflicting reports about just how easily they break, but the first result I found when I searched "do rubies break" was, from a luxury jewelry website: Quote Rubies are extremely hard and rank almost at the top of the toughness scale. They're intensely resistant to scratches and cleavage and are near-impossible to break. Even if the ruby is cracked, it can still withstand further damage. I'm skeptical that it would be easy to shatter an Earth ruby by throwing it against a crem wall; Szeth does it twice in a row (RoW ch. 113). Navani uses a hammer, but seems like she has no trouble and succeeds on the first try (RoW ch. 97). I think we need to at least consider the possibility that Rosharan gemstones are somehow different than those we see on Earth. 49 minutes ago, Bzhydack said: Yeah, but we know Scadrian gems will have the same properties of holding Stormlight, so they have the same structure. Say what, now? How exactly do "we know" this? If true, it's news to me. Edited January 29, 2021 by AquaRegia added chapter #s 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: Say what, now? How exactly do "we know" this? If true, it's news to me. Youre welcome. Quote Firefight Atlanta signing (Jan. 24, 2015) #10 Share Copy Play/Pause ccstat In Mistborn, Vin had a set of sapphire jewelry. If Demoux had brought those to Roshar, would they be infused by a highstorm? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Edited January 29, 2021 by Bzhydack 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegia Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 @Bzhydack thank you! Now I'm forced to retract much of my previous position. But I'm still troubled by how easily those Rosharan gems seem to break. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 30 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: No, these are large rubies, given to Taravangian by Renarin, which contain Enlightened spren from Sja-Anat. I'd think the protective mother would use good-quality gems to transport her precious children. Of course, anything can be broken, including gemstones. But the ones we are talking about - diamonds, rubies, emeralds, sapphires - they are some of the hardest and toughest materials known. That's part of the reason they are prized as jewelry. There are a lot of conflicting reports about just how easily they break, but the first result I found when I searched "do rubies break" was, from a luxury jewelry website: I'm skeptical that it would be easy to shatter an Earth ruby by throwing it against a crem wall; Szeth does it twice in a row (RoW ch. 113). Navani uses a hammer, but seems like she has no trouble and succeeds on the first try (RoW ch. 97). I think we need to at least consider the possibility that Rosharan gemstones are somehow different than those we see on Earth. Say what, now? How exactly do "we know" this? If true, it's news to me. Maybe when Rosharans say shattered they mean ‘badly cracked’? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 This is Szeth and Navani we're talking about. If Szeth wants something broken, it breaks. And Navani knows what she's doing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 44 minutes ago, Frustration said: If Szeth wants something broken, it breaks. Refresh my memory, did he have Nightblood partly unsheathed? That does seem to enhance physical attributes, which would give him the strength to hurl them against the wall hard enough... maybe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Just now, Halyo_Alex said: Refresh my memory, did he have Nightblood partly unsheathed? That does seem to enhance physical attributes, which would give him the strength to hurl them against the wall hard enough... maybe. no, he didn't 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Just now, Frustration said: no, he didn't Well there goes that idea 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 28 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said: Well there goes that idea Of course those did have Spren in them, so maybe the Spren bursting out caused the gems to shatter? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Just now, Kingsdaughter613 said: Of course those did have Spren in them, so maybe the Spren bursting out caused the gems to shatter? Oh yeah, maybe it causes some sort of internal stress... I'm now vaguely reminded of a Prince Rupert's Drop. ..Not a King's Drop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said: Oh yeah, maybe it causes some sort of internal stress... I'm now vaguely reminded of a Prince Rupert's Drop. ..Not a King's Drop. I was thinking more that the gem cracks, allowing the Spren to escape. And it’s the force of the subsequent escape that shatters the gem, but the two events are so close to one another that they appear to be the same one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 minute ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: I was thinking more that the gem cracks, allowing the Spren to escape. And it’s the force of the subsequent escape that shatters the gem, but the two events are so close to one another that they appear to be the same one. That also works, in theory. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Chaos said: Hi, Rhythm of War content must go in our dedicated spoiler boards. I have moved it there for you. Hi Chaos, long time no see! and thank you for the correction, I will do better in future 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 19 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: Of course those did have Spren in them, so maybe the Spren bursting out caused the gems to shatter? Or maybe the Spren/Stormlight takes up a non-zero amount of space? Someone with more specialized knowledge will likely shoot this down as unstable, but is it possible that "growing" the gemheart while infused could lead to an "unfilled" crystalline structure? Diamond is simplest (I think) so I'll use that to explain what I mean: All of the carbon atoms are at the same distance from each other as in a "real" diamond, except each atom is bonded to only 3 neighbors instead of 4 with the investiture making up for this extra energy? Or maybe 1/4 of the expected atoms are missing from the structure, to make space for the investiture? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 minute ago, LabRat said: Diamond is simplest (I think) so I'll use that to explain what I mean: All of the carbon atoms are at the same distance from each other as in a "real" diamond, except each atom is bonded to only 3 neighbors instead of 4 with the investiture making up for this extra energy? Or maybe 1/4 of the expected atoms are missing from the structure, to make space for the investiture? Or maybe energy of atomic bonds is replaced partialy by Investiture, so bonds are weaken than normal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 minute ago, Bzhydack said: Or maybe energy of atomic bonds is replaced partialy by Investiture, so bonds are weaken than normal. I like this, as it would explain why gemstones crack when you remove lots of Stormlight quickly. As the Investiture leaves, the atomic bonds regain their full strength and the entire structure pulls in upon itself with a jolt directly proportional to how quickly the Investiture is withdrawn. I think this would mean that Investiture has a very weak positive electric charge? Or do I have that backwards? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSub Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 7 minutes ago, Bzhydack said: Or maybe energy of atomic bonds is replaced partialy by Investiture, so bonds are weaken than normal. This makes sense. It's like how drabs on Nalthis are weaker than normal humans. The investiture is replacing something and when it's removed it leaves a hole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, LabRat said: I think this would mean that Investiture has a very weak positive electric charge? Or do I have that backwards? Probably not, but this is simply speculation. Only ionic bond has charge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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