More Cynical Than Funny

Villain of the Cosmere

Who is the Villain of the Cosmere?   80 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is the Villain of the Cosmere?

    • Hoid
      13
    • Odium [Rayse]
      2
    • Odium [Taravangian]
      19
    • Kelsier/Thaidakar
      13
    • Harmony [Sazed]
      2
    • Mraize
      1
    • Sons of Honor
      0
    • The Unmade
      0
    • Hrathen
      0
    • Dilaf & Dakor
      1
    • The Pahn Kahl
      0
    • The Five Scholars
      0
    • The Set
      1
    • Ishar
      3
    • Shalash
      0
    • Taln
      0
    • Nale
      0
    • Chanarach
      0
    • Vedel
      0
    • Paliah
      0
    • Battar
      0
    • Kalak
      0
    • Talenel
      1
    • The Seventeenth Shard [Not Fandom]
      4
    • Iyatil
      0
    • One of the Sleepless
      1
    • No one
      16

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47 posts in this topic

I was bored so have this!

(Tell me if I missed a villain and I'll add it)

Edited by More Cynical Than Funny
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Clearly, the 17th Shard [Fandom].

Jokes aside, I think most of those are a definite NO or are otherwise working for the Big Bad. My vote would be either Odium-T or in a weird, intriguing twist, Dilaf

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Just now, Elerosse said:

Clearly, the 17th Shard [Fandom].

Jokes aside, I think most of those are a definite NO or are otherwise working for the Big Bad. My vote would be either Odium-T or in a weird, intriguing twist, Dilaf

First Villain, last Villain, ....

I almost want this now.

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Seing those preliminary results, I want a kelsier vs 17sharders death match. Pretty sure we could kill him out of bordeom with stupid theories.

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15 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

It now seems that Hoid’s the villain...

:o

Do you really think so? I was surprised by the current poll results but it seems many agree with you!

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I'd also submit 'no one' as the true villain, I think Brandon is angling for a balanced multi sided conflict, not good vs evil. 

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10 hours ago, Lunu’anaki said:

:o

Do you really think so? I was surprised by the current poll results but it seems many agree with you!

Well, he did say he make Roshar burn if he needed. I don't think he's the big bad be he's not good.

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My vote would go to "colonialism". :D (non-capital c!)

I'd be surprised if Space Age Cosmere turns out to be "evil guy must be defeated --> happy ending". He wouldn't need 40 books build-up for that. There's going to be a lot of ambiguity between the different factions/planets, and I really hope that they won't have a straight-up common antagonist, because that would be too simple.

I could imagine a Cosmere-wide natural disaster that's a challenge for the whole Cosmere though! Something comparable to climate change, but on a galaxy level.

Edited by Elegy
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Why is cultivation not on here it’s definitely her.

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My thoughts: 

  1. It almost certainly has to be one of Harmony, Kelsier, TOdium, Hoid, Trell (unless this is actually TOdium), or nobody in the sense that the real villain is the creeping influence of colonialism.  Nobody else really feels important enough, at least not yet.  
  2. I do not think that Kelsier being the big bad will fit with Sanderson's style.  More likely, he will reach a point where he forces himself to be a better person after growing a proper conscience.  Probably in Stormlight series 2 IMO.  
  3. Harmony being a big bad also does not fit.  He already has a very Prime Directive attitude and is wary of overt intervention on philosophical grounds. It would be a challenge to make him a villain in a universe that seems to be pushing on a general message (among others) of Colonialism Bad.  
  4. TOdium is an obvious choice but I feel like he's not going to survive Stormlight series 2.   I think that Stormlight series 2 is going to be a big fight between Hoid/Wit/Cephandrius/whoever and TOdium, with the pawns realizing what's going on and fighting them both in a desperate attempt to save their world.  
  5. Trell is an obvious choice but I also think that this threat will be dealt with in Mistborn era 3 (modern era).  It seems to be a Scadrial specific threat, so far.  If this is TOdium, then TOdium is much more likely to be the big threat.  
  6. Hoid is the one I think is going to become the biggest bad.  Addicted to cleverer-than-thou manipulations and supremely confident in his own intelligence and righteousness, this guy is my #1 suspect for "accidentally becomes a monster while high on how smart he is".  We also know that like Kelsier he is kind of an asshole in certain ways, and seems to take pleasure in what violence he can commit despite an apparent geas that seems to prevent him from directly harming any animal or sapient life, or from eating meat.  
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33 minutes ago, GroundPetrel said:

My thoughts: 

  1. It almost certainly has to be one of Harmony, Kelsier, TOdium, Hoid, Trell (unless this is actually TOdium), or nobody in the sense that the real villain is the creeping influence of colonialism.  Nobody else really feels important enough, at least not yet.  
  2. I do not think that Kelsier being the big bad will fit with Sanderson's style.  More likely, he will reach a point where he forces himself to be a better person after growing a proper conscience.  Probably in Stormlight series 2 IMO.  
  3. Harmony being a big bad also does not fit.  He already has a very Prime Directive attitude and is wary of overt intervention on philosophical grounds. It would be a challenge to make him a villain in a universe that seems to be pushing on a general message (among others) of Colonialism Bad.  
  4. TOdium is an obvious choice but I feel like he's not going to survive Stormlight series 2.   I think that Stormlight series 2 is going to be a big fight between Hoid/Wit/Cephandrius/whoever and TOdium, with the pawns realizing what's going on and fighting them both in a desperate attempt to save their world.  
  5. Trell is an obvious choice but I also think that this threat will be dealt with in Mistborn era 3 (modern era).  It seems to be a Scadrial specific threat, so far.  If this is TOdium, then TOdium is much more likely to be the big threat.  
  6. Hoid is the one I think is going to become the biggest bad.  Addicted to cleverer-than-thou manipulations and supremely confident in his own intelligence and righteousness, this guy is my #1 suspect for "accidentally becomes a monster while high on how smart he is".  We also know that like Kelsier he is kind of an asshole in certain ways, and seems to take pleasure in what violence he can commit despite an apparent geas that seems to prevent him from directly harming any animal or sapient life, or from eating meat.  

Why does nobody consider cultivation If todium is scary cultivation should terrify everyone, nobody appears to have a managed to outsmart her and no matter what she said to taravangian when he ascended about the situation never being certain every plan we know she has put In place has worked out and that is simply not something that can be ignored. 
she pushed taravangian to become odium, I think she will push dalinar to become honor and lift to replace her.

and we don’t know if she has changed others and I think she has, how did sja-anat break free from odium? Anyone noticed that all the sentient spren linked to her have been related to cultivation because you know that’s important, I bet she helped break her free. Why does jasnah say that she had a childhood illness nobody remembers sounds important why does nobody remember it cultivation is why, windle seems to have been forced to make a bond with lift, why? Well he is a cultivation spren. Why do so many stormlight archive characters seem to resemble shards. Why does dalinar call Himself unity, when he does odium screens that WE killed you cultivation didn’t kill honor, and I doubt anyone but a shard would be called we by odium as an equal, that plus the name unity possibly means dalinar has taken on some aspect of adonalsium, you know what else cultivation did take Nightblood from vasher, nightblood then made it to nale, and then made it to szeth on seemingly orders from someone probably her and then made it to taravangian and then killed raize think of all the hoops that had to be jumped through all the moves that had to be anticipated taravangian is scary cultivation makes him look like a toddler with a crayon, taravodium says cultivation has no clue what she just did but is that really true she has anticipated every move we have ever seen and nothing indicates she is good. 
 

She could be responsible for everything, if nale is taking orders from her like with nightblood could heleran have been sent to kaladin, if not how did kaladin hide from nale, the “amaram said he was dead” or whatever is a dumb excuse they can trace proto radiants and they didn’t go after and kill a man name “kaladin stormblessed” who killed a shardbearer who was one of their own. How even were they finding proto-radiants could have been cultivation.

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Technically there's no entry for Autonomy... but I'm getting more and more convinced that she might not be as bad as we thought.

Edited by Lightdancer
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2 hours ago, Lightdancer said:

Technically there's no entry for Autonomy... but I'm getting more and more convinced that she might not be as bad as we thought.

I have a crack theory in my head that Kelsier's eventual fate will be to become Autonomy by accident, but becoming a Shard also seems antithetical to his worldview.  

4 hours ago, Valigus said:

Why does nobody consider cultivation If todium is scary cultivation should terrify everyone, nobody appears to have a managed to outsmart her and no matter what she said to taravangian when he ascended about the situation never being certain every plan we know she has put In place has worked out and that is simply not something that can be ignored. 
she pushed taravangian to become odium, I think she will push dalinar to become honor and lift to replace her.

Cultivation seems to want to help people become better people.  Might be big on redemption.  Definitely stormed up massively with T, but  I don't  think that was intentional.  Rayse would've been defeated with much loss of life and chaos, but she got too greedy and ambitious and put in the T plan and it by all appearances is biting her in the butt.  

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2 hours ago, GroundPetrel said:

I have a crack theory in my head that Kelsier's eventual fate will be to become Autonomy by accident, but becoming a Shard also seems antithetical to his worldview.  

Cultivation seems to want to help people become better people.  Might be big on redemption.  Definitely stormed up massively with T, but  I don't  think that was intentional.  Rayse would've been defeated with much loss of life and chaos, but she got too greedy and ambitious and put in the T plan and it by all appearances is biting her in the butt.  

Maybe a bit but cultivation is now for all purposes her intent she just wants change, maybe she is trying to nudge a bit toward the good side but putting taravangian as odium isn’t a good act in fsct it’s somewhere from evil to ruthlessly efficient she created a perfect vessel for a shard of hatred that’s not good

Also why do people including taravangian think that she doesn’t know he intends to not do exactly what she wants. She has successfully predicted the actions of shards and mortals across decades to achieve exactly the result she wanted like I pointed out with the way taravangian took odium that is such a specific chain of events. I am certain she knows what taravangian plans she as far as we have seen is planning 100s of steps ahead of everyone even taravangian. 
 

cultivation is basically dr strange from infinity war she knows exactly what is going to happen and what must happen to achieve it.

Edited by Valigus
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9 hours ago, GroundPetrel said:

Harmony being a big bad also does not fit.  He already has a very Prime Directive attitude and is wary of overt intervention on philosophical grounds. It would be a challenge to make him a villain in a universe that seems to be pushing on a general message (among others) of Colonialism Bad.  

Well Ati was also a good person and that turned out wonderfully.

8 hours ago, Valigus said:

Why does nobody consider cultivation If todium is scary cultivation should terrify everyone, nobody appears to have a managed to outsmart her and no matter what she said to taravangian when he ascended about the situation never being certain every plan we know she has put In place has worked out and that is simply not something that can be ignored. 
she pushed taravangian to become odium, I think she will push dalinar to become honor and lift to replace her.

and we don’t know if she has changed others and I think she has, how did sja-anat break free from odium? Anyone noticed that all the sentient spren linked to her have been related to cultivation because you know that’s important, I bet she helped break her free. Why does jasnah say that she had a childhood illness nobody remembers sounds important why does nobody remember it cultivation is why, windle seems to have been forced to make a bond with lift, why? Well he is a cultivation spren. Why do so many stormlight archive characters seem to resemble shards. Why does dalinar call Himself unity, when he does odium screens that WE killed you cultivation didn’t kill honor, and I doubt anyone but a shard would be called we by odium as an equal, that plus the name unity possibly means dalinar has taken on some aspect of adonalsium, you know what else cultivation did take Nightblood from vasher, nightblood then made it to nale, and then made it to szeth on seemingly orders from someone probably her and then made it to taravangian and then killed raize think of all the hoops that had to be jumped through all the moves that had to be anticipated taravangian is scary cultivation makes him look like a toddler with a crayon, taravodium says cultivation has no clue what she just did but is that really true she has anticipated every move we have ever seen and nothing indicates she is good. 
 

She could be responsible for everything, if nale is taking orders from her like with nightblood could heleran have been sent to kaladin, if not how did kaladin hide from nale, the “amaram said he was dead” or whatever is a dumb excuse they can trace proto radiants and they didn’t go after and kill a man name “kaladin stormblessed” who killed a shardbearer who was one of their own. How even were they finding proto-radiants could have been cultivation.

If you look at this thread I go over that and some more

 

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1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Well Ati was also a good person and that turned out wonderfully.

Ati was holding a Shard of pure entropy, likely out of a desire to contain it.  Sazed has two shards in a yin/yang situation, and even after 300 years he seems to be doing pretty well.  

Granted that's young for a Vessel and Trell seems to be posing him an outsized challenge, but I still don't see Saze becoming a big bad.  

On top of that, I would argue that the Hell Rashek made in a probably Preservation-influenced attempt to create an eternally stagnant society was so bad that it needed a little Ruin to shake things up.  I for one would rather have a relatively quick apocalypse than literal millennia of stagnant monolithic hopeless tyranny, where the rich live meaningless lives of constant backstabbing for irrelevant status, and the poor are treated as subhuman.  

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6 hours ago, Frustration said:

Well Ati was also a good person and that turned out wonderfully.

If you look at this thread I go over that and some more

 

Yeah this kinda started it and more recently I made a post listing every single person with odd unexplained irregularities in their past that could be her like the childhood illness of jasnahs nobody seems to remember.

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9 hours ago, GroundPetrel said:

Ati was holding a Shard of pure entropy, likely out of a desire to contain it.  Sazed has two shards in a yin/yang situation, and even after 300 years he seems to be doing pretty well.  

Granted that's young for a Vessel and Trell seems to be posing him an outsized challenge, but I still don't see Saze becoming a big bad.  

On top of that, I would argue that the Hell Rashek made in a probably Preservation-influenced attempt to create an eternally stagnant society was so bad that it needed a little Ruin to shake things up.  I for one would rather have a relatively quick apocalypse than literal millennia of stagnant monolithic hopeless tyranny, where the rich live meaningless lives of constant backstabbing for irrelevant status, and the poor are treated as subhuman.  

Harmonies intent could very easily become Discord.

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5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Harmonies intent could very easily become Discord.

Very easily could be an exaggeration, but it's certainly possible

Quote

Shallan's Ward

While Sazed holds Preservation and Ruin, could his intent change from Harmony to Discord?

Brandon Sanderson

It is possible

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)
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1 minute ago, mathiau said:

Very easily could be an exaggeration, but it's certainly possible

Well that and this

HoA

Spoiler

He shall defend their ways, yet shall violate them. He will be their savior, yet they shall call him heretic. His name shall be Discord, yet they shall love him for it. 

[20]
And so far Preservation has been right on the money

 

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