+Oltux72 Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 Taravangian was a father. Apparently his children are already dead, as his granddaughter is inheriting Kharbranth. And he is quite fond of her. Our dearest Jasnah had a first hand encounter with a granddaughter of Taravangian and is ready to murder her own relatives. In addition she is quite intelligent, so we can confidently conclude that she will see a logical possibility. Now, should she learn who now is holding Odium, an obvious tactic arises. If I were her I'd lead a commando raid on Kharbranth to take her hostage. Is that compatible with the Immortal Words? And whom will she take on her raid? Stonewards? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracnor Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) No good tactic : Taravangian is even more utilitaristic than her. If he has to see his loved ones suffer to save the many, he will do it. And being Odium, he will try to take revenge. As for if she could do it... we have a WoB stating that Elsecallers allow for a utilitarist interpretation of the immortal words. So I'd say she probably could, but would not be able to take many radiants with her (and certainly no windrunner nor bondsmith nor willshaper, who might even have to oppose her because of their oaths). Edit : there they are : https://wob.coppermind.net/events/35/#e2525 this one and the one after =) Edited January 28, 2021 by Dracnor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 8 hours ago, Dracnor said: No good tactic : Taravangian is even more utilitaristic than her. If he has to see his loved ones suffer to save the many, he will do it. And being Odium, he will try to take revenge. As for if she could do it... we have a WoB stating that Elsecallers allow for a utilitarist interpretation of the immortal words. So I'd say she probably could, but would not be able to take many radiants with her (and certainly no windrunner nor bondsmith nor willshaper, who might even have to oppose her because of their oaths). Edit : there they are : https://wob.coppermind.net/events/35/#e2525 this one and the one after =) I agree that she couldn’t take anyone else. She couldn’t even let them know - it could start an inter-Radiant war. Which is how I would deal with this if I were Taravangian... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted February 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 On 28.1.2021 at 0:40 PM, Dracnor said: No good tactic : Taravangian is even more utilitaristic than her. If he has to see his loved ones suffer to save the many, he will do it. And being Odium, he will try to take revenge. He hates her anyway. On 28.1.2021 at 0:40 PM, Dracnor said: As for if she could do it... we have a WoB stating that Elsecallers allow for a utilitarist interpretation of the immortal words. So I'd say she probably could, but would not be able to take many radiants with her (and certainly no windrunner nor bondsmith nor willshaper, who might even have to oppose her because of their oaths). Why not Bondsmiths? It would seem to me that especially a Bondsmith would almost be required to overlook morally grey actions in the interest of unity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyJim Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 Elsecallers probably would, since tactics wise it's a pretty sound maneuver. I'd say Dustbringers are likely to agree, since this action can potentially limit further destruction. I agree with @Oltux72, but I think it could change depending the Bondsmith. For Willshapers it probably depends on a lot of factors, like who's being taken hostage, how severe is the situation, and who benefits from the arrangement. Skybreakers would be totally cool with it, so long as the hostage is treated appropriately and they follow any relevant codes of warfare (if they exist anyway). Windrunners and Edgedancers would be against it, but Stonewards might go along with it if they see it as part of their duty. I don't know about Lightweavers and Truthwatchers, I'm not sure they have any relevant ideals so it would probably depend on the person. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracnor Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 3 hours ago, LuckyJim said: Elsecallers probably would, since tactics wise it's a pretty sound maneuver. I'd say Dustbringers are likely to agree, since this action can potentially limit further destruction. I agree with @Oltux72, but I think it could change depending the Bondsmith. For Willshapers it probably depends on a lot of factors, like who's being taken hostage, how severe is the situation, and who benefits from the arrangement. Skybreakers would be totally cool with it, so long as the hostage is treated appropriately and they follow any relevant codes of warfare (if they exist anyway). Windrunners and Edgedancers would be against it, but Stonewards might go along with it if they see it as part of their duty. I don't know about Lightweavers and Truthwatchers, I'm not sure they have any relevant ideals so it would probably depend on the person. Taking innocents hostages doesn't seem like Willshaper stuff. It's literally puting someone in bondage. Skybreakers... Honestly taking someone hostage isn't really legal. Like, illegal as storm. There might be an exception for rules of war, but the hostages here are innocents far far away from war. Taking them is just a crime according to local law, and probably according to Alethi law. Bondsmith... I really don't see how this is uniting. Dalinar's issues in book 3 are to make people collaborate with him, not coerce them into an alliance (which would be easy : sneak Kaladin in their oathgate, open it, tada !). So i'm preatty sure that Bondsmith is a no no. Stoneward, lightweaver, truthwatcher : not a clue. May indeed depend on the person and/or spren. Even the interpretation of the first oath could be an issue (taking hostages to protect other people is a wrong journey to a rightful destination...). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSprengineer Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) On 2/21/2021 at 10:25 AM, LuckyJim said: For Willshapers it probably depends on a lot of factors, like who's being taken hostage, how severe is the situation, and who benefits from the arrangement My first evil thought when running Willshaper through this exercise was, (depending on the hostage of course lol), “My oaths say I’m not allowed to take you hostage...so I’m just going to kill you instead.” *shrug emoji* Edited February 24, 2021 by TheSprengineer Quoted wrong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apepi Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 I personally think something like this could kill Odium, we know for shards going against something you agreed to do creates a hole(?) in the shard and makes it weak. If Odium allows Kharbranth to fall, when it was promised that they would be safe, then it severely storms up Odium. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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