Thaidakar is on his way to becoming like ...

[Ixthos]

Mistborn spoilers

Quote

Rashek.

 

I think this is a potential irony being set up in the series, that Kelsier is starting to manifest the same traits as Rashek, and walking the same path. Both hated a certain group, both founded religions centred on themselves, both touched the power of Preservation, and both studied Hemalurgy. Both have been alive for a lot longer than they originally should have been - though alive is a strange thing for a shadow, and both had access to all three metallic arts. Rashek was motivated to save Scadrial, just as Kelsier is, and both are prepared to do horrible things to others in the name of saving the world.

We don't know how much of what the Ghostbloods are doing is done under Kelsier's direct motivation and approval, but they certainly are being presented as dangerous albeit also possible allies, and morally dubious.

I think the great irony in later Cosmere stories will be that Kelsier has become the very thing he once opposed.

 

[Kingsdaughter613]

43 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

Mistborn spoilers

 

He’s already been a king... and been mistaken for TLR.

There are a lot of fundamental differences between them though. For one thing, Kelsier is far more dangerous! 

But being more serious... No. Not beyond the superficial.

Kelsier has no interest in ruling. It bores him. He ruled an entire continent, then gave it up when it no longer needed him. In fact, there are hints that he fundamentally disagrees with Saze on the level of involvement Harmony has in the Basin.

Despite having two halves of the planet predominantly loyal to him, Kelsier has kept his manipulation to the shadows since he left the South. The people may worship him (at least in the North; TBD on the South), but he doesn’t appear to involve himself in those beliefs.

Rashek kept himself on the throne. He wiped out all faiths that didn’t worship him. He actively involved himself in the religion and society. He kept the world from developing and he did so openly. In this his actions are opposed to Kelsier’s.

Rashek was Cosmere aware and he spent 1000 years doing nothing with that knowledge. Kelsier, from the beginning, has sought to learn more. Rashek wanted stagnation; Kelsier wants progression. Rashek wanted to rule; Kelsier wants to KNOW. They both sought power, but the power Kelsier seeks is very different than Rashek’s. Where they DO align is likely in the belief that they are helping Scadrial. Kelsier may want Scadrial to become the Cosmere’s Portugal; Rashek wanted to protect them from Ruin.

Kelsier has allies. Friends. And he isn’t afraid of being called out. He’s willing to acknowledge mistakes and weaknesses. I think a big difference between the two is illustrated when Kelsier is trying to set himself up as a spiritual figure and thinks “Let them see my weakness and let them see me overcome it” versus Rashek later on going, “I have not made a mistake. God does not make mistakes.”

Kelsier’s core Ghostbloods are probably very similar to the Crew, based on the Shardcast episode with Brandon. It’s only as the group grows beyond him, beyond his ability to coral, that things change. Being stuck on Scadrial doesn’t help, and neither do Kelsier’s poor administrative skills.

Rashek turned his friends into Kandra. His closest allies were the Inquisitors he could control. Kelsier intentionally created a group of individuals who do not have to do as they are told. He prizes that. He wants his people to take initiative. That’s NOTHING like how Rashek works.

Kelsier also seems to have come around on the nobility. He seems perfectly fine with recruiting nobles these days. Rashek never really got over his pettiness.

Rashek was a force of stability and stagnation. Kelsier is a force of change and innovation. Despite surface similarities, like Ruin and Preservation, they couldn’t be more opposed. (And yes, Kelsier is definitely Ruin in this comparison.)

[stonewalker16]

I don't think this is true mainly because of a WoB from a while ago, since Brandon Sanderson has said that Kelsier wasn't done on his path to becoming a better person by the end of TFE, and besides, Kelsier greatly cares about his friends at very least. All I see from his actions so far are that he's trying to do whatever he can to stay alive, not rule the Cosmere.

[Kingsdaughter613]

9 minutes ago, stonewalker16 said:

I don't think this is true mainly because of a WoB from a while ago, since Brandon Sanderson has said that Kelsier wasn't done on his path to becoming a better person by the end of TFE, and besides, Kelsier greatly cares about his friends at very least. All I see from his actions so far are that he's trying to do whatever he can to stay alive, not rule the Cosmere.

I keep thinking that Kelsier is on a redemption arc we didn’t see the start of. That is, he was basically a villain (or on the edge of it) and we’ve only seen him since he started going the other way - toward being a hero. And that’s where certain parts of his story feel ‘wrong’ - because we haven’t seen the beginning, so we don’t realize the tale for the redemption narrative it is.

[AquaRegia]

First of all, in case anyone didn't see it, this:

In the Stormlight Archive Call to Adventure board game (which I just got for my b-day), one of the Challenge cards is titled  Thwart an Evil Agent , and the picture is of Mraize with his stupid green chicken. 

Mraize = Agent of Evil, ergo, Thaidakar = EVIL.  It's canon.  Just saying.

Honestly, though, I'm worried.  I agree it's unlikely he wants to be the next Lord Ruler of anything, based on what we know of his personality, but we don't know really know what he DOES want.  I hope I don't have to root against Kelsier... but I'm preparing myself to do so.  I would love to watch him join forces with the Knights Radiant and bring his considerable skills to bear in defense of protecting the innocent and freedom for all on behalf of the whole Cosmere, but I think it much more likely that Kelsier, just as Hoid said he would, just as Taravangian DID, will be perfectly willing to sacrifice all the people he doesn't know in order to buy safety for those he does.  And I think that's going to be a big problem for me.

2 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Kelsier has allies. Friends. And he isn’t afraid of being called out. He’s willing to acknowledge mistakes and weaknesses.

I think the most we can say right now it that those things WERE true - several hundred years ago.  We don't have much to base their CURRENT truth on, and the impressions we get of Thaidakar through Mraize, in my mind, do not support them very strongly.  Hopefully, that's Brandon's intention, and we'll be pleasantly surprised once the real Thaidakar is revealed.  But I'm not ready to bet that way yet.

[PleatherDuster]

I can’t imagine him turning out to be nearly as bad as Rashek. It would be a major disappointment in an otherwise delightful character arch. Really we just have so little info about what he’s been up to, so I’m going to keep on assuming that the situation is more complicated than it appears ....any maybe Hoid is the “real” bad guy. Lol. 
 

Also, aside from Mraize kidnapping Lift, the Ghosties haven’t  been shown doing anything TOO bad have they? 

[Honorless]

Okay yeah there are similarities: Kwaan described Rashek as angry at the oppressive Khlennium, but I think Kelsier being angry at the Final Empire should count as better than that? They treated skaa as literal subhumans, remember the party interruption killing or the fountain executions? Rashek burned Scadrial when he Ascended, okay count it as a mistake, but what about what he did to the Feruchemist Keepers? He turned them into Mistwraith! And then he established the Final Empire in his name. Look at the megalomania on this guy! Kelsier's self-importance couldn't touch this! 

Rashek was a way worse person than Kelsier.

 

And yeah, from what we saw in Bands of Mourning, the South Scadrians did seem to revere Kelsier as the Sovereign, sort of like a spiritual guru.

[Kingsdaughter613]

8 hours ago, Honorless said:

Okay yeah there are similarities: Kwaan described Rashek as angry at the oppressive Khlennium, but I think Kelsier being angry at the Final Empire should count as better than that? They treated skaa as literal subhumans, remember the party interruption killing or the fountain executions? Rashek burned Scadrial when he Ascended, okay count it as a mistake, but what about what he did to the Feruchemist Keepers? He turned them into Mistwraith! And then he established the Final Empire in his name. Look at the megalomania on this guy! Kelsier's self-importance couldn't touch this! 

Rashek was a way worse person than Kelsier.

 

And yeah, from what we saw in Bands of Mourning, the South Scadrians did seem to revere Kelsier as the Sovereign, sort of like a spiritual guru.

Allik calls the Sovereign their king, but notes that he was the Northerners god. Not the South’s. I got much more of a Once and Future King vibe than the sense that he’s ‘worshipped’ much more than the average metalborn. I agree that they revere him, but I’m not certain it’s as a god. We really need to see more of the South.

[Rushu42]

9 hours ago, PleatherDuster said:

Also, aside from Mraize kidnapping Lift, the Ghosties haven’t  been shown doing anything TOO bad have they? 

What about that innocent carriage driver they killed? Or the fact that they were openly given permission to kill non-members, or the fact that everyone they associate with seems to be some sort of thief, scammer, or murderer?

There may be more examples, I just don't know them off the top of my head.

[PleatherDuster]

3 minutes ago, Rushu42 said:

What about that innocent carriage driver they killed?

I totally forgot about that! Yeah, that was definitely pretty bad. I guess my memory from the pre-RoW is a bit foggy. They tried to kill Jasnah too! But in SLA term, that's not...too evil?  All the other "organizations" (or at least their members) have seemed worse to me, though admittedly I've always enjoyed the Ghostbloods (Mraize and Iyatil anyways) so maybe I'm a bit biased. Probably even more so now that Thaidakar's identity is confirmed.

 

[Kingsdaughter613]

57 minutes ago, Rushu42 said:

What about that innocent carriage driver they killed? Or the fact that they were openly given permission to kill non-members, or the fact that everyone they associate with seems to be some sort of thief, scammer, or murderer?

There may be more examples, I just don't know them off the top of my head.

Considering their boss is a scammer, thief and murderer - and so was EVERYONE ELSE on the original Mistborn crew - that doesn’t tell us much except that Kelsier is still Kelsier; ie. a thief and a conman.

Killing non-members was always fine, especially when said non-member killed an ally.

We don’t actually know they killed the driver. The timing on it is odd, we don’t see the crime, and it doesn’t fit the MO (quiet, minimal casualties) we’ve seen from every actual GB. Only when they’ve contracted out have we seen large scale messes.

[stonewalker16]

23 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

First of all, in case anyone didn't see it, this:

In the Stormlight Archive Call to Adventure board game (which I just got for my b-day), one of the Challenge cards is titled  Thwart an Evil Agent , and the picture is of Mraize with his stupid green chicken. 

Mraize = Agent of Evil, ergo, Thaidakar = EVIL.  It's canon.  Just saying.

Honestly, though, I'm worried.  I agree it's unlikely he wants to be the next Lord Ruler of anything, based on what we know of his personality, but we don't know really know what he DOES want.  I hope I don't have to root against Kelsier... but I'm preparing myself to do so.  I would love to watch him join forces with the Knights Radiant and bring his considerable skills to bear in defense of protecting the innocent and freedom for all on behalf of the whole Cosmere, but I think it much more likely that Kelsier, just as Hoid said he would, just as Taravangian DID, will be perfectly willing to sacrifice all the people he doesn't know in order to buy safety for those he does.  And I think that's going to be a big problem for me.

I think the most we can say right now it that those things WERE true - several hundred years ago.  We don't have much to base their CURRENT truth on, and the impressions we get of Thaidakar through Mraize, in my mind, do not support them very strongly.  Hopefully, that's Brandon's intention, and we'll be pleasantly surprised once the real Thaidakar is revealed.  But I'm not ready to bet that way yet.

I don't think we should put too much stock into what cardgames say unless we get a WoB saying that they're fully accurate. Besides, we've already seen a ton of cases where evil is a relative thing in the Cosmere, especially in the Stormlight Archive. I'm not saying that Mraize isn't evil, but knowing Brandon Sanderson, there's much more going on with the Ghostbloods than we have seen so far. It's possible that something like when we first saw the Singers, where they were much less evil than any of us suspected. 

As for Kelsier, I think it's relatively clear what he wants: to get off Scadrial and live long enough for it to matter. We know that the Ghostbloods are looking for a way to get around the Connection issue regarding Cognative Shadows and Investiture, so of course Kelsier wants to explore the Cosmere, but the fact that he specifically wants Investiture likely means that he knows this will prevent the decay of sanity for Cognative Shadows based on his experiences during Secret History. 

[mathiau]

8 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

We don’t actually know they killed the driver. The timing on it is odd, we don’t see the crime, and it doesn’t fit the MO (quiet, minimal casualties) we’ve seen from every actual GB. Only when they’ve contracted out have we seen large scale messes.

Because killing everyone on Jasnah's ship was minimal casualties?

[Kingsdaughter613]

16 minutes ago, stonewalker16 said:

I don't think we should put too much stock into what cardgames say unless we get a WoB saying that they're fully accurate. Besides, we've already seen a ton of cases where evil is a relative thing in the Cosmere, especially in the Stormlight Archive. I'm not saying that Mraize isn't evil, but knowing Brandon Sanderson, there's much more going on with the Ghostbloods than we have seen so far. It's possible that something like when we first saw the Singers, where they were much less evil than any of us suspected. 

As for Kelsier, I think it's relatively clear what he wants: to get off Scadrial and live long enough for it to matter. We know that the Ghostbloods are looking for a way to get around the Connection issue regarding Cognative Shadows and Investiture, so of course Kelsier wants to explore the Cosmere, but the fact that he specifically wants Investiture likely means that he knows this will prevent the decay of sanity for Cognative Shadows based on his experiences during Secret History. 

He could probably just buy Breath though. I think he wants Scadrial to be the Cosmere’s Portugal by keeping a monopoly on the Investiture trade. It’s a good way for a rising planet to become important.

He may also be concerned because Scadrial ALSO has free floating Investiture - Mist. If Stormlight becomes transferable people will focus on Roshar’s free floating power, not Scadrial’s.

@mathiau Reread my post. I specifically noted “when not contracted out.”

Specifically: GBs hire Tyn. Tyn hires third party. Third party hires unknown fourth party who attacks the ship. Probably.

It gets a bit vague because Tyn thinks the people who attacked the ship are the ones hired by her third party friends overseas (as she didn’t go herself), but she can’t be certain. Not that it matters.

It wasn’t an assassination committed directly by a GB. Kabsal spent months working with on a slow poisoning plot that would have only hurt Jasnah. (Except that Jasnah soulcast the antidote.) Iyatil used blowdarts against Amaram in a careful, targeted attack. Mraize (probably) killed Gerrah in the midst of an attack. No other casualties and no witnesses (except an Aviar Lift decided to chase).

They’re assassins. The attack on the carriage doesn’t fit that. It’s too noisy, if that makes sense. It just... feels too contrived, the timing is too close, and it doesn’t fit their usual MO. Something about it just feels off.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Kingsdaughter613

[Ixthos]

@Kingsdaughter613 It might be useful for me to clarify that I don't think Kelsier is destined to be the ultimate villain, only that he is in danger of becoming one. Kelsier can come back from the edge, can become a better person, but only after facing the fact that he is becoming more and more what he hates - I think an important part in the potential arc of him becoming a better person requires him facing his darker nature and realising he is doing the exact same things as Rashek for the same reasons

[Kingsdaughter613]

1 minute ago, Ixthos said:

@Kingsdaughter613 It might be useful for me to clarify that I don't think Kelsier is destined to be the ultimate villain, only that he is in danger of becoming one. Kelsier can come back from the edge, can become a better person, but only after facing the fact that he is becoming more and more what he hates - I think an important part in the potential arc of him becoming a better person requires him facing his darker nature and realising he is doing the exact same things as Rashek for the same reasons

Except that he isn’t doing the same things as Rashek at all. They’re different people and they work very differently.

What Kelsier needs to realize is that he can’t continue operating like it’s still the Final Empire. He needs to change.

He’s not going to recognize that he’s like Rashek, because he’s not. Rashek would never do the things Kelsier does and Kelsier is incapable of doing the things Rashek did. Mostly because Kelsier would find it too boring and Rashek wouldn’t care enough to do them.

Kelsier is uniquely himself. He’s not about to compare himself to others. What he needs is to be humbled. He needs to realize he messed up badly. That’s the way he changes.

The thing that changed him most in Era 1 was almost getting Vin killed. He needs that again. He needs to be forced to his knees, forced to realize that he failed - and that he is responsible for that failure. He needs to realize that all his plans, all his machinations - they weren’t worth the cost.

And then, because he’s Kelsier, he’ll get up and do his best to do better. Because deep in his tattered soul Kelsier wants to be the one thing he’s always known he isn’t - a good man.

No, I don’t see him being the villain either. But I do see him seemingly playing the role as part of a plot, having the plot fail - or even succeed! - in the worst way possible, and then going through a redemption arc to become a better person and set things right.

[Ixthos]

23 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Except that he isn’t doing the same things as Rashek at all. They’re different people and they work very differently.

What Kelsier needs to realize is that he can’t continue operating like it’s still the Final Empire. He needs to change.

He’s not going to recognize that he’s like Rashek, because he’s not. Rashek would never do the things Kelsier does and Kelsier is incapable of doing the things Rashek did. Mostly because Kelsier would find it too boring and Rashek wouldn’t care enough to do them.

Kelsier is uniquely himself. He’s not about to compare himself to others. What he needs is to be humbled. He needs to realize he messed up badly. That’s the way he changes.

The thing that changed him most in Era 1 was almost getting Vin killed. He needs that again. He needs to be forced to his knees, forced to realize that he failed - and that he is responsible for that failure. He needs to realize that all his plans, all his machinations - they weren’t worth the cost.

And then, because he’s Kelsier, he’ll get up and do his best to do better. Because deep in his tattered soul Kelsier wants to be the one thing he’s always known he isn’t - a good man.

No, I don’t see him being the villain either. But I do see him seemingly playing the role as part of a plot, having the plot fail - or even succeed! - in the worst way possible, and then going through a redemption arc to become a better person and set things right.

They are indeed different people, and Kelsier certainly has - or had - more emotional grounding than Rashek. My point is that, thematically, wouldn't it be sense for Kelsier to have to face this possibility. What arc do you think would be appropriate for Kelsier, who is now immortal and aware of how insignificant their planet really is to the dangers out there?

Let us look at this from another perspective - imagine the story of Mistborn, but from the point of view of a noble who isn't a bigot and monster, someone who just doesn't see how badly treated the Skaa are but who themselves doesn't abuse them. Imagine that person seeing their loves one being killed by Kelsier, a supernatural assassin in the night, whose goals were initially to see the nobles switch places with the Skaa. The story of Mistborn could easily be told from a noble with Kelsier as the villain - because they never saw what Kelsier was facing, and never knew how evil their society was and why it needed to fall - just as Kelsier never saw what Rashek was facing until after Rashek was dead. We have seen a similar story before, in Warbreaker and the other possible Kelsier of Denth, a Kelsier who is the villain while still having nobility.

 

If Kelsier had to choose between Scadrial, everyone he knows and loves there, and the combined lives of Taldain, Sel, Nalthis, and Roshar, along with all the other worlds in the Cosmere, who do you think Kelsier would save? I can see an argument for Kelsier choosing to save them all, but he certainly wouldn't save them and leave them as they are. We are talking about someone who - either he or Spook - wanted to get the elderly to volunteer to be spiked.

I am not saying he is identical to Rashek. I am saying he is just as ruthless and just as prepared to go as far as Rashek did because he knows if he doesn't do the terrible things he is planning, Scadrial is doomed. The man who says "I could never be like that," is the man who is most likely to become it, because they aren't guarding against it. Kelsier does, as you say, want to be a better man. And I think he will be, but only after he is forced to see that, despite that, he has actually become as vile as Rashek, only a Rashek whose friends and the memory of his friends still gives him some humanity.

In Secret History Kelsier reflects on himself and his actions, including how Vin saved someone Kelsier would have just casually murdered. That is a great start, but that doesn't mean Kelsier has ended the journey.

I think we are looking at this from similar perspectives - I see your example, and ask you to consider the idea that Era 3 might involve characters trying to take down Kelsier just as they tried to take down Rashek, only to realise that he was guarding them against something terrible. And to take him down for reasons the characters in world might compare to Rashek, and hearing that makes Kelsier reexamine himself.

[Kingsdaughter613]

4 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

They are indeed different people, and Kelsier certainly has - or had - more emotional grounding than Rashek. My point is that, thematically, wouldn't it be sense for Kelsier to have to face this possibility. What arc do you think would be appropriate for Kelsier, who is now immortal and aware of how insignificant their planet really is to the dangers out there?

Let us look at this from another perspective - imagine the story of Mistborn, but from the point of view of a noble who isn't a bigot and monster, someone who just doesn't see how badly treated the Skaa are but who themselves doesn't abuse them. Imagine that person seeing their loves one being killed by Kelsier, a supernatural assassin in the night, whose goals were initially to see the nobles switch places with the Skaa. The story of Mistborn could easily be told from a noble with Kelsier as the villain - because they never saw what Kelsier was facing, and never knew how evil their society was and why it needed to fall - just as Kelsier never saw what Rashek was facing until after Rashek was dead. We have seen a similar story before, in Warbreaker and the other possible Kelsier of Denth, a Kelsier who is the villain while still having nobility.

 

If Kelsier had to choose between Scadrial, everyone he knows and loves there, and the combined lives of Taldain, Sel, Nalthis, and Roshar, along with all the other worlds in the Cosmere, who do you think Kelsier would save? I can see an argument for Kelsier choosing to save them all, but he certainly wouldn't save them and leave them as they are. We are talking about someone who - either he or Spook - wanted to get the elderly to volunteer to be spiked.

I am not saying he is identical to Rashek. I am saying he is just as ruthless and just as prepared to go as far as Rashek did because he knows if he doesn't do the terrible things he is planning, Scadrial is doomed. The man who says "I could never be like that," is the man who is most likely to become it, because they aren't guarding against it. Kelsier does, as you say, want to be a better man. And I think he will be, but only after he is forced to see that, despite that, he has actually become as vile as Rashek, only a Rashek whose friends and the memory of his friends still gives him some humanity.

In Secret History Kelsier reflects on himself and his actions, including how Vin saved someone Kelsier would have just casually murdered. That is a great start, but that doesn't mean Kelsier has ended the journey.

I think we are looking at this from similar perspectives - I see your example, and ask you to consider the idea that Era 3 might involve characters trying to take down Kelsier just as they tried to take down Rashek, only to realise that he was guarding them against something terrible. And to take him down for reasons the characters in world might compare to Rashek, and hearing that makes Kelsier reexamine himself.

The problem is that I don’t see that working for Kelsier. If his plan still works despite a sacrifice he’s chosen (and note that he would NOT agree with Taravangian, so...) he wouldn’t care who he’s compared to. Shards, he deliberately SET UP those comparisons. He wanted the North confused as to his identity for reasons we still don’t know.

He doesn’t care and that comparison would be meaningless to him, especially coming from people he doesn’t care about. If it’s true, but he still protected Scadrial, than he’ll OWN that comparison. He may not like it, but he’ll take it. He may even see it as vindication - TLR would have protected Scadrial for another 1000 years, after all, and Kelsier knows that. 

Only Kelsier’s own personal failures will cause him to change. He needs something that will hurt him personally. Something he hasn’t chosen. He needs to remember he’s fallible. That he can lose. And that some victories aren’t worth the cost.

And that’s going to take more than a simple comparison.

I do think there will be a mirroring. We’re being set up for it: SWAT team (government force) versus a Mistborn Assassin. We’re going to do Era 3 on the other side, at least for book one. And, thematically, Kelsier fits as the ultimate ‘villain’ of that book (or the next one) because of it. But it isn’t going to end the same way or go to the same places. And Kelsier tends to need something big to force him to reassess.

[Ixthos]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

The problem is that I don’t see that working for Kelsier. If his plan still works despite a sacrifice he’s chosen (and note that he would NOT agree with Taravangian, so...) he wouldn’t care who he’s compared to. Shards, he deliberately SET UP those comparisons. He wanted the North confused as to his identity for reasons we still don’t know.

He doesn’t care and that comparison would be meaningless to him, especially coming from people he doesn’t care about. If it’s true, but he still protected Scadrial, than he’ll OWN that comparison. He may not like it, but he’ll take it. He may even see it as vindication - TLR would have protected Scadrial for another 1000 years, after all, and Kelsier knows that. 

Only Kelsier’s own personal failures will cause him to change. He needs something that will hurt him personally. Something he hasn’t chosen. He needs to remember he’s fallible. That he can lose. And that some victories aren’t worth the cost.

And that’s going to take more than a simple comparison.

I do think there will be a mirroring. We’re being set up for it: SWAT team (government force) versus a Mistborn Assassin. We’re going to do Era 3 on the other side, at least for book one. And, thematically, Kelsier fits as the ultimate ‘villain’ of that book (or the next one) because of it. But it isn’t going to end the same way or go to the same places. And Kelsier tends to need something big to force him to reassess.

Let me put it this way: what actions do you think Kelsier would never do, and in what ways can he become a better person? If you asked Rashek why he did what he did, and you asked Kelsier, what would be the difference in their responses? Do you think there will or won't be a scene where one or more characters compares Kelsier to Rashek, whether or not Kelsier intended that?

[Edit] To go further, remember Kelsier has already faced the prospect that he lost, and indeed even was responsible for almost destroying the world when he realised Ruin had been playing him.[/Edit]

 

Also, heads up, Brandon is thinking of changing the focus from the SWAT team due to Wax and Wayne covering similar ideas, and shifting the focus to the Terris Nicroburst tech and being a spy thriller, though keeping the SWAT team present.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/181/#e3778

Argent

You've dropped a few tidbits about the plot of the next Mistborn series over the years. Putting all those things together, we have a nicrosil Ferring Terriswoman hacker recruited for fieldwork in an "Allomancer SWAT team" to chase a Mistborn serial killer. Could you give us a more recent and concise pitch/blurb if the above is no longer accurate?

Brandon Sanderson

Ha. That's not far off, as all of those things still exist in the series, though the weight I'll give them is relative. With the Alloy series covering some of the police procedural aspect of storytelling, I'm inching the outlines slowly away from the SWAT idea and toward more spy thriller--but the SWAT team isn't not gone completely. (Of course, who knows what will happen in the intervening years between now and when I write it.)

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Oct. 4, 2016)

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Ixthos

[Kingsdaughter613]

5 hours ago, Ixthos said:

Let me put it this way: what actions do you think Kelsier would never do, and in what ways can he become a better person? If you asked Rashek why he did what he did, and you asked Kelsier, what would be the difference in their responses? Do you think there will or won't be a scene where one or more characters compares Kelsier to Rashek, whether or not Kelsier intended that?

[Edit] To go further, remember Kelsier has already faced the prospect that he lost, and indeed even was responsible for almost destroying the world when he realised Ruin had been playing him.[/Edit]

 

Also, heads up, Brandon is thinking of changing the focus from the SWAT team due to Wax and Wayne covering similar ideas, and shifting the focus to the Terris Nicroburst tech and being a spy thriller, though keeping the SWAT team present.

 

I wasn’t saying how big of role those elements would play, just that there’s obviously some thematic mirroring.

Its not about the reasoning; it’s that Kelsier won’t care about the comparison. He’s aware of it already and deliberately played it up for unknown reasons. It’s not going to bother him. Any comparison will be for us - not him.

The only time Kelsier really sits down and reassesses is when he fails or when his plans succeed, but have terrible consequences. That’s the only thing that really makes him aware of the lengths he’s gone to and that those may have been too far.