Shard Babies

[Scadrian Truthwatcher]

Three facts that we know:

1) Tanavast and Koravellium were romantically involved (https://wob.coppermind.net/entry/2786)

2) There are probably descendants of the original Vessels still alive today (https://wob.coppermind.net/entry/6383)

3) The Stormfather calls pretty much everyone a Child of Honor, but calls Kaladin a Child of Tanavast (https://wob.coppermind.net/entry/12688)

 

Could it be that Kaladin Stormblessed is a living descendant of Tanavast, the original Vessel of Honor?

[Chinkoln]

46 minutes ago, Scadrian Truthwatcher said:

Three facts that we know:

1) Tanavast and Koravellium were romantically involved (https://wob.coppermind.net/entry/2786)

2) There are probably descendants of the original Vessels still alive today (https://wob.coppermind.net/entry/6383)

3) The Stormfather calls pretty much everyone a Child of Honor, but calls Kaladin a Child of Tanavast (https://wob.coppermind.net/entry/12688)

 

Could it be that Kaladin Stormblessed is a living descendant of Tanavast, the original Vessel of Honor?

Ya, I have had this thought as well. There is some special relation between Kaladin and Tanavast, but we don’t know what it is. I think it is either a familial relation or Tanavast planned for Kaladin to take up his Shard eventually, possibly both.

[KSub]

20 minutes ago, Chinkoln said:

Ya, I have had this thought as well. There is some special relation between Kaladin and Tanavast, but we don’t know what it is. I think it is either a familial relation or Tanavast planned for Kaladin to take up his Shard eventually, possibly both.

Tanavast died long before Kaladin was born so that seems unlikely.

At least one of Kaladins grandparents was a lighteyes and they were related to Aesudan. We don't know anything about Aesudans past so unfortunately that  doesn't lead anywhere.

[Nellac]

Honestly, I'd rather this not happen. I want Kaladin to just be a normal man who faced incredible challenges and came out on top. I don't want there to be anything supernatural about him

[KSub]

8 minutes ago, Nellac said:

Honestly, I'd rather this not happen. I want Kaladin to just be a normal man who faced incredible challenges and came out on top. I don't want there to be anything supernatural about him

There is something special about him. I suppose it could just be that he is the  embodiment of the windrunner ideals but I think there is something more.

[Scadrian Truthwatcher]

1 hour ago, Nellac said:

Honestly, I'd rather this not happen. I want Kaladin to just be a normal man who faced incredible challenges and came out on top. I don't want there to be anything supernatural about him

It’s not necessarily supernatural. It’s just that he would happen to be a descendant of Tanavast. That’s all.

[Chasmgoat]

10 minutes ago, Scadrian Truthwatcher said:

It’s not necessarily supernatural. It’s just that he would happen to be a descendant of Tanavast. That’s all.

I think they said that because so many stories have the main character who was a normal person discovered to actually be more tied into the story and what they want is a person who got to where they are because they worked hard. I don't know if this is what they meant, but that is my assumption.

[Scadrian Truthwatcher]

I don’t know how to hide content, but RoW spoilers below...

MOD ALTERATION: (it’s the eye button on the tool bar  ):

Spoiler

In Chapter 53, Leshwi mentions that Honor is propelling Kaladin during the occupation, despite being dead.

Another point is he literally bonded an honorspren, which is a weak connection, but we see in OB that Syl is kind of special and combined with everything else...

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by LadyLameness
Putting spoilers into spoiler box

[Chaos]

Hi, since your opening post refers to RoW material, this topic should be in the RoW boards. If you're referring to new material, that's where things go. This may be useful for you: 

 

[+En-priestess]

I’ve said this before, but what if it’s simply that Kaladin and Syl end up together and Kaladin becomes the son in law of Tanavast by way of Syl being the ancient daughter 

On another note, I did find it odd that Navani makes a point in RoW of noticing when she meets Lirin that Kaladin doesn’t share any physical resemblance to him. The only resemblance she finds is in their eyes - the same “quiet intensity... and faintly judgemental gaze.”

This could of course be very normal, children don’t look like replicas of their parents. But I did think it was interesting that Navani would pointedly notice this. And as someone who has grown up with a step parent I’ve often found it interesting how people will say they see the resemblance between me and my step dad (not knowing that we aren’t blood related) simply based on our shared mannerisms and facial expressions and such that I’ve picked up from growing up with him - even though we look so completely different haha

 

[Frustration]

6 hours ago, Kahlani said:

I’ve said this before, but what if it’s simply that Kaladin and Syl end up together and Kaladin becomes the son in law of Tanavast by way of Syl being the ancient daughter 

On another note, I did find it odd that Navani makes a point in RoW of noticing when she meets Lirin that Kaladin doesn’t share any physical resemblance to him. The only resemblance she finds is in their eyes - the same “quiet intensity... and faintly judgemental gaze.”

This could of course be very normal, children don’t look like replicas of their parents. But I did think it was interesting that Navani would pointedly notice this. And as someone who has grown up with a step parent I’ve often found it interesting how people will say they see the resemblance between me and my step dad (not knowing that we aren’t blood related) simply based on our shared mannerisms and facial expressions and such that I’ve picked up from growing up with him - even though we look so completely different haha

 

I've had the same theory, and it still exists with alterations, but unforunatly

Zeamay

Are Lirin and Hesina Kaladin's biological parents?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 10, 2015)

[KSub]

10 hours ago, Kahlani said:

On another note, I did find it odd that Navani makes a point in RoW of noticing when she meets Lirin that Kaladin doesn’t share any physical resemblance to him. The only resemblance she finds is in their eyes - the same “quiet intensity... and faintly judgemental gaze."

I think this was just to reinforce how different Kaladin and his father are. It could help explain the whole Kaladin weirdness but it would seem to contradict Hesinas backstory.

[+En-priestess]

5 hours ago, Frustration said:

I've had the same theory, and it still exists with alterations, but unforunatly

Zeamay

Are Lirin and Hesina Kaladin's biological parents?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 10, 2015)

Well there you go! Haha thanks for sharing this info

[skewh]

15 hours ago, Scadrian Truthwatcher said:

I don’t know how to hide content, but RoW spoilers below...

MOD ALTERATION: (it’s the eye button on the tool bar  ):

  Hide contents

In Chapter 53, Leshwi mentions that Honor is propelling Kaladin during the occupation, despite being dead.

Another point is he literally bonded an honorspren, which is a weak connection, but we see in OB that Syl is kind of special and combined with everything else...

 

Your point about the Honorspren got me thinking. Are there any Windrunners that didn't originate with Bridge Four? We know that Lightweavers, Truthwatchers, Edgedancers, storms, seemingly every other order of Radiants can manifest their powers in isolation, and only later flock to the orders of their spren. But to my knowledge, all of the Windrunners can be traced back to Kaladin/Bridge Four. 

[+Invocation]

8 minutes ago, skewh said:

Your point about the Honorspren got me thinking. Are there any Windrunners that didn't originate with Bridge Four? We know that Lightweavers, Truthwatchers, Edgedancers, storms, seemingly every other order of Radiants can manifest their powers in isolation, and only later flock to the orders of their spren. But to my knowledge, all of the Windrunners can be traced back to Kaladin/Bridge Four. 

That's probably because Syl was pretty much the focal point for the return of the Windrunners, so the other honorspren (at least the ones who would bond) found a tight-knit group near her chosen that all seemed like they could fit and went "Hmm...yeah sure I'm just gonna stay right here and work with what I have."

[Bort]

I've been wondering of late, if it's not Kaladin who is special, but Syl. She was one of the only generation of Honorspren that the Stormfather "birthed" after Honor Invested in him, and iirc, is the only one that survived.

[Eri]

A couple days ago on the Discord I came up with the theory of Kaladin being a direct heir (ie: eldest sons/children line) of Tanavast. This would fit with Lirin&Hesina being his actual parents, and also with Lirin too having this "moral code above all else" thing going on.

But I agree that it would be a little too tropey for Brandon, unless he can find a good spin on it.

However I also like the hypothesis that this "son of Tanavast" refers to Kal's bonding with Syl, it's a very elegant reading of it.

[Dreamwa1ker]

On 1/25/2021 at 4:44 PM, Bort said:

I've been wondering of late, if it's not Kaladin who is special, but Syl. She was one of the only generation of Honorspren that the Stormfather "birthed" after Honor Invested in him, and iirc, is the only one that survived.

I'm also in the bonding to Syl camp, and that Syl is special. I think she very specifically chose the person who most embodies the ideals and values of Tanavast, and that this may have even been a mission or purpose she was given by Honor (even if she doesn't quite remember that yet and acted instinctively). I think it makes him basically Honor's spiritual heir. Foreshadowed by "Honor is dead but I'll see what I can do" and "Honor is not dead so long as he lives in the hearts of men!"

Edited January 27, 2021 by Dreamwa1ker

[Chinkoln]

On 1/26/2021 at 4:52 AM, Eri said:

However I also like the hypothesis that this "son of Tanavast" refers to Kal's bonding with Syl, it's a very elegant reading of it.

 

8 minutes ago, Dreamwa1ker said:

I'm also in the bonding to Syl camp, and that Syl is special. I think she very specifically chose the person who most embodies the ideals and values of Tanavast, and that this may have even been a mission or purpose she was given by Honor (even if she doesn't quite remember that yet and acted instinctively). I think it makes him basically Honor's spiritual heir. Foreshadowed by "Honor is dead but I'll see what I can do" and "Honor is not dead so long as he lives in the hearts of men!"

Y’all have really good reasoning, and I would be with you, except for one thing. I was just rereading Words of Radiance, and I got to the part where Kaladin and Shallan are stuck in the high storm. During the in-between moment, when Kaladin talks to the Stormfather, the Stormfather called him Child of Tanavast, or something of the like. This means that Syl can’t be the reason for Kaladin’s unique title, because the Stormfather was convinced they no longer had a bond, so he would have called Kaladin that.