fullborn/radiant

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

How is a direct strike to the head provide more force than a direct strike to the hand?

I always pictured this as a pseudo last clap than shoving his arm in direct line of the attack to stop it.  He could have grabbed the leg and still had time and space to slow down the blow.  Like an egg catch or an egg drop.  So long as that egg isn't hitting so directly that it pops it can survive stories worth of a drop. 

The catch was likely more closely relatable to an egg drop vs a persons fist connecting at the speed of sound or faster against a stationary object.  

[Frustration]

24 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I assume something funky was going on with Dalinar in that moment as we see far more instances.

Could you please explain that?

24 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Plus as we see with the last clap holding a thing is different from outright resisting a thing.  

In the last clap you aren't touching the edge, only the flat.

24 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

The strength in plate may allow for it catching and holding a chasmfiend briefly but if Dalinar hadn't caught it there is no doubt it would have punched right through the shard plate.

There is doubt because not only did he catch it, he held it, and then lifted it up. Even once he was brought to his knees he continued to hold it, which mean he would have survived.

24 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

If hammers swung by nonshardbearers can crack plate overtime why wouldn't a fullborn tapping iron and steel and a duralumin charged pewter hit cripple plate?  

Sadeas was beat upon by multiple warform parshendi for several minutes and when Dalinar managed to rescue him his armor was still intact, crakced in a few places sure, but none of it was broken.

24 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Side question: 

If a pewter compounder stores allomantic strength could it not be compounded and tapped to give ludicrous strength minus the drawback of the growing mass typical of Feruchemical pewter?   If steelsight can be stored or bronze sensing can be stored why then would Allomantic pewter strength be the rulebreaker?

You can store A-Pewter

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Allomantic pewter strength can be stored in a metalmind, but it's probably easier to just Compound.

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011)

 

22 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Because catching allows for bracing for it and the force of the blow to be distributed through the whole Plate. Focus strikes don't generally allow for that

Even counting for Dalinar going down to his knees he continuted to hold the chasmfiend, so he did take all of it's weight, or at least most of it.

Quote

I always pictured this as a pseudo last clap than shoving his arm in direct line of the attack to stop it.  He could have grabbed the leg and still had time and space to slow down the blow.  Like an egg catch or an egg drop.  So long as that egg isn't hitting so directly that it pops it can survive stories worth of a drop. 

The catch was likely more closely relatable to an egg drop vs a persons fist connecting at the speed of sound or faster against a stationary object.  

That wouldn't work as Dalinar was able to force the chasmfiend up, which he wouldn't be able to do if he wasn't beneath it.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Frustration

[StanLemon]

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Even counting for Dalinar going down to his knees he continuted to hold the chasmfiend, so he did take all of it's weight, or at least most of it.

We can go back and forth on this all day long. At the end of the day though, that situation was an exception not the rule. In RoW, a Magnified One broke Jasnah's Plate with a single hit (two hits if you count two hands hitting simultaneously as two blows)

[Frustration]

31 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

We can go back and forth on this all day long. At the end of the day though, that situation was an exception not the rule. In RoW, a Magnified One broke Jasnah's Plate with a single hit (two hits if you count two hands hitting simultaneously as two blows)

Cracked not broke, the helm didn't shatter.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

55 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Could you please explain that?

In the last clap you aren't touching the edge, only the flat.

There is doubt because not only did he catch it, he held it, and then lifted it up. Even once he was brought to his knees he continued to hold it, which mean he would have survived.

Sadeas was beat upon by multiple warform parshendi for several minutes and when Dalinar managed to rescue him his armor was still intact, crakced in a few places sure, but none of it was broken.

You can store A-Pewter

  Hide contents

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Allomantic pewter strength can be stored in a metalmind, but it's probably easier to just Compound.

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011)

 

Even counting for Dalinar going down to his knees he continuted to hold the chasmfiend, so he did take all of it's weight, or at least most of it.

That wouldn't work as Dalinar was able to force the chasmfiend up, which he wouldn't be able to do if he wasn't beneath it.

If you treated a pewtermind like a tin mind and only stored allomantic strength in one and regular strength in another than wouldn't you be able to compound just the allomantic strength without the need to increase mass while tapping?  

Even if warform parshendi had beat on plate many times did it add up to more than the chasmfiend.   Also the foot race at the beginning of the way of kings... how deep are the chasms when Dalinar fears slipping and falling... was his fear strictly because he was going to lose the race?  Or was it the idea that a fall from that height would still scramble him up even in his plate?  

I have certainly grabbed around a box and lifted it without having my hands underneath it.  I have grabbed the sides of a dresser and lifted it without being directly underneath it.  I can't accept his ability to lift the chasmfiend leg as the proof that he was directly underneath its leg. 

Dalinar lifting the leg was also done and written from his perspective. Who is to say he didn't breath in any stormlight at all or get assistance from the stormfather?  Brandon is very consistent when it comes to feeding us information as the characters learn about it.  Kaladin didn't believe that he was using stormlight until it was shown directly to him.  Vin had no idea what allomancy was and just used her "luck" until she was told otherwise.   

Something could have happened in the background there that we won't know for books and books to come.  

Think about Spook getting his spike in HoA.  That was only accomplished because the shard was watching and decided to wave his hand.  I think there is far more evidence that some fancy hand waving explains catching and lifting a chasmfiends leg than it being a normal everyday part of plate wearing... everyone who watched it was in awe and shocked.  He could have splashed some adhesion on the sides of the leg without even knowing it and that could explain why he didn't have to be under it.  

The scenes are always written based on the participants knowledge, and judging by Adolins reaction, the knowledge in that moment and scene was that Dalinar did the impossible.  Heck I think even Dalinar was shocked by what happened in that moment.  

[StanLemon]

15 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Cracked not broke, the helm didn't shatter.

Admittedly true, but doesn't change the fact of the matter. A Magnified One cracked her Plate with a single blow. They are nowhere near as strong as a chasmfiend. That would be much closer to the baseline needed to compare Plate to other powers and not the chasmfiend event. Even Adolin, Elhokar, and Sadeas all of whom are experienced with Plate were amazed he did that

[Frustration]

15 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

If you treated a pewtermind like a tin mind and only stored allomantic strength in one and regular strength in another than wouldn't you be able to compound just the allomantic strength without the need to increase mass while tapping?  

That is theoretically possible, but given that compounding would be easier I'm going to say it will at the verry least take much longer.

17 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Even if warform parshendi had beat on plate many times did it add up to more than the chasmfiend.   Also the foot race at the beginning of the way of kings... how deep are the chasms when Dalinar fears slipping and falling... was his fear strictly because he was going to lose the race?  Or was it the idea that a fall from that height would still scramble him up even in his plate?  

 

Given that Renarin jumps from at least two/three stories up and lands on his head completly fine I have to say it's him being more worried about being injured and stuck at the bottom. Dalinar fell probably a close distance in the rift but he lived.

20 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I have certainly grabbed around a box and lifted it without having my hands underneath it.  I have grabbed the sides of a dresser and lifted it without being directly underneath it.  I can't accept his ability to lift the chasmfiend leg as the proof that he was directly underneath its leg. 

Let's take your example of a dresser. If someone else placed their hands on the dresser and their feet on the ceiling and exeted themselves to push down would you be able to pick it up from the sides?

No, because they have better leverage than you do. In order for Dalinar to lift the Chasmfiend he had to be underneath otherwise the Chamsfiend would push past his grip because it had the more advantageous position.

22 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Dalinar lifting the leg was also done and written from his perspective. Who is to say he didn't breath in any stormlight at all or get assistance from the stormfather?  Brandon is very consistent when it comes to feeding us information as the characters learn about it.  Kaladin didn't believe that he was using stormlight until it was shown directly to him.  Vin had no idea what allomancy was and just used her "luck" until she was told otherwise.

Dalinar wasn't bonded to the Stormfather yet.

23 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Think about Spook getting his spike in HoA.  That was only accomplished because the shard was watching and decided to wave his hand.  I think there is far more evidence that some fancy hand waving explains catching and lifting a chasmfiends leg than it being a normal everyday part of plate wearing... everyone who watched it was in awe and shocked.  He could have splashed some adhesion on the sides of the leg without even knowing it and that could explain why he didn't have to be under it.  

People in plate don't know how to use it, the last clap shouldn't be possible but sharbearers are so used to their shards doing all the work for them that they don't bother to actually put in the effort to use them correctly.

I garuntee you that if other shardbearers applied themselves they could do the same thing.

11 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Admittedly true, but doesn't change the fact of the matter. A Magnified One cracked her Plate with a single blow. They are nowhere near as strong as a chasmfiend. That would be much closer to the baseline needed to compare Plate to other powers and not the chasmfiend event. Even Adolin, Elhokar, and Sadeas all of whom are experienced with Plate were amazed he did that

While true they are nowhere near as strong as a Chasmfiend they are probably on par with shardplate.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

11 minutes ago, Frustration said:

That is theoretically possible, but given that compounding would be easier I'm going to say it will at the verry least take much longer.

 

Given that Renarin jumps from at least two/three stories up and lands on his head completly fine I have to say it's him being more worried about being injured and stuck at the bottom. Dalinar fell probably a close distance in the rift but he lived.

Let's take your example of a dresser. If someone else placed their hands on the dresser and their feet on the ceiling and exeted themselves to push down would you be able to pick it up from the sides?

No, because they have better leverage than you do. In order for Dalinar to lift the Chasmfiend he had to be underneath otherwise the Chamsfiend would push past his grip because it had the more advantageous position.

Dalinar wasn't bonded to the Stormfather yet.

People in plate don't know how to use it, the last clap shouldn't be possible but sharbearers are so used to their shards doing all the work for them that they don't bother to actually put in the effort to use them correctly.

I garuntee you that if other shardbearers applied themselves they could do the same thing.

While true they are nowhere near as strong as a Chasmfiend they are probably on par with shardplate.

No doubt shard bearers are lazy and we don't see full what they can do. 

As for all of your other explanations I feel like that is just more evidence that there was some shard involvement.  

How much more bonded was Kaladin to Syl when arrows were missing him on bridge runs at the beginning of the book than Dalinar was to the storm father while being given all of his visions.   

I don't see a ton of evidence that supernatural random acts don't happen for characters with bonds even before the first oath is spoken.  

[cometaryorbit]

Roshar is generally higher power than Scadrial. Regular dead Shardplate grants 'the strength of many men', whereas allomantic pewter (at normal strength) is about 2x, flaring 3x.

Given that Dalinar's hammer is heavy enough to be a major burden for 2 soldiers to carry, it's probably well over 100 lbs... maybe 150 or so? RL warhammers were more like 5 lbs. So 30x strength seems reasonable... probably at least 20x.

A koloss has 4 iron hemalurgic spikes so is probably a bit less (due to decay) than 5x human strength (at base... they must get stronger as they grow).

So I'd argue that someone in Shardplate is probably stronger than a large koloss or Sazed amped-up to large-koloss muscle-mass in WoA; at least 4x stronger than a 5-foot 'base' koloss (and likely more like 6x); and about 10x stronger than a (non-Lerasium strength) pewter burner.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

8 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Roshar is generally higher power than Scadrial. Regular dead Shardplate grants 'the strength of many men', whereas allomantic pewter (at normal strength) is about 2x, flaring 3x.

Given that Dalinar's hammer is heavy enough to be a major burden for 2 soldiers to carry, it's probably well over 100 lbs... maybe 150 or so? RL warhammers were more like 5 lbs. So 30x strength seems reasonable... probably at least 20x.

A koloss has 4 iron hemalurgic spikes so is probably a bit less (due to decay) than 5x human strength (at base... they must get stronger as they grow).

So I'd argue that someone in Shardplate is probably stronger than a large koloss or Sazed amped-up to large-koloss muscle-mass in WoA; at least 4x stronger than a 5-foot 'base' koloss (and likely more like 6x); and about 10x stronger than a (non-Lerasium strength) pewter burner.

I would agree that a shardbearer wins an arm wrestling contest against a pewter arm and I would say that against Feruchemical pewter all beefed out the shardplate wearer definately has higher flexibility and mobility.  But we aren't just talking about allomancy and feruchemy.  We are talking beefed up near shardic levels of power from a full born compounding.  You could store allomantic pewter strength and then compound that allowing access to so much more strength than feruchemy or allomancy give on their own.  You can nicrosil compound up the potency of your allomancy to the point of seeing and being able to push on specs of metal in rock and inside of people.  How much more potent would A pewter be in that case as well?  

Shardplate is incredibly OP.  But compounding to be a near shard is far more broken than shardplate.  

I think a fullborn vs a surgebinder with all surges and living plate / blade would honestly come down to both jousting a bit back and forth initiating what should be 1 hit kills but get instantly healed back.  Once they realize that it is hopeless they will likely end with each attempting to leech or drain the other of their investiture.  In fact the first one to realize that draining the others investiture is the best plan is probably going to end up being the winner of this contest.  You could allow a surgebinder to stab you right through the spine with their shardblade so long as you reach out and durilumin boost some chromium... you still have gold to heal and your metalminds to end the knight.   Likewise the knight could grab hold of the fullborn holding their heart and open a connection between them and the ground to drain them of all their investiture while regrowing a new heart as quickly as the fullborn can rip out the old one.  

You have to get a 1 shot, hold a 1 shot (aluminum embedded in nervous system for the duration of leeching) to really end this fight and kill one another.  

And a God King could send an army of invested stone soldiers wearing full aluminum armor and each carrying shard-like-blades against both of them then go and hide and cry because he is the only stupid broken character without instant one-shot countering healing capabilities.  Poor Nalthis.  

Edited April 2, 2022 by Tamriel Wolfsbaine

[Frustration]

29 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I would agree that a shardbearer wins an arm wrestling contest against a pewter arm and I would say that against Feruchemical pewter all beefed out the shardplate wearer definately has higher flexibility and mobility.  But we aren't just talking about allomancy and feruchemy.  We are talking beefed up near shardic levels of power from a full born compounding.  You could store allomantic pewter strength and then compound that allowing access to so much more strength than feruchemy or allomancy give on their own.  You can nicrosil compound up the potency of your allomancy to the point of seeing and being able to push on specs of metal in rock and inside of people.  How much more potent would A pewter be in that case as well?  

We do not know that you can compound A-Pewter, only that it can be stored.

30 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Shardplate is incredibly OP.  But compounding to be a near shard is far more broken than shardplate.  

Compounding also takes time. Who knows how many years it took Kelsier to make the bands.

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

Compounding also takes time. Who knows how many years it took Kelsier to make the bands.

Miles was able to constantly tap enough healing to survive any injury. Compounding is extremely fast. I doubt it took more than a few days at most to make the bands.

[Frustration]

Just now, Nameless said:

Miles was able to constantly tap enough healing to survive any injury. Compounding is extremely fast. I doubt it took more than a few days at most to make the bands.

You forget that Miles didn't need large stores, just a small burn would fill his needs, esspecially since he didn't need to continuosly store and tap Nicrocil to amp his Allomancy up.

And Compounding is additive not multiplicative, so it won't get faster by doing larger amounts.

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

You forget that Miles didn't need large stores, just a small burn would fill his needs, esspecially since he didn't need to continuosly store and tap Nicrocil to amp his Allomancy up.

And Compounding is additive not multiplicative, so it won't get faster by doing larger amounts.

Yes, Miles didn't need large stores, but neither did the bands. They weren't large. And Kelsier didn't need to tap nicrosil in order to amp his allomancy, except when he was storing F-nicrosil. Additionally, he had A-duraluminum to speed up his compounding. A slow burn let Miles be constantly healing at an insane rate, so duraluminum flaring a large chunk of metal should give an absurd amount of an attribute.

Also, how do we know that compounding isn't multiplicative? Do you have a WoB on that or something?

[Frustration]

17 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Yes, Miles didn't need large stores, but neither did the bands. They weren't large. And Kelsier didn't need to tap nicrosil in order to amp his allomancy, except when he was storing F-nicrosil. Additionally, he had A-duraluminum to speed up his compounding. A slow burn let Miles be constantly healing at an insane rate, so duraluminum flaring a large chunk of metal should give an absurd amount of an attribute.

The Allomancy stored was more powerful

18 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Also, how do we know that compounding isn't multiplicative? Do you have a WoB on that or something?

. . . The crap was I thinking?

I appear to have confused myself. I need to stop staying up so late.

Ignore that I'm dumb.

[NameIess]

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The Allomancy stored was more powerful

Compounding covers that. Yes, F-nicrosil is like F-copper, but we don't even know what compounding F-copper does, and I'm liable to believe that it doesn't just copy the memories, but makes them more powerful and clearer.

 

[StanLemon]

I see two main potential ways Compounding can increase Allomancy. Either Compounding your Connection to Preservation for more raw power or alternatively/conjunctively because as far as we know, Nicrosil can store one's ability to use Allomancy, if you Compound your very ability to use Allomany you could potentially increase its power output 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

47 minutes ago, Frustration said:

We do not know that you can compound A-Pewter, only that it can be stored.

Compounding also takes time. Who knows how many years it took Kelsier to make the bands.

I guess my next question would be why not be able to compound A pewter... the whole process of feruchemy is that you store something and then use it later.  Compounding is simply the act of burning a new alloy (that being the metalmind if you are able to burn the same metal it is alloyed out of being the original metal prestorage) and then gaining its benefits 10 fold.  I think it makes far more sense from those rules that you could compound the strength from allomantic pewter just as easily as it would be to simply compound pewter... the trick would be getting the allomantic pewter stored in a new pewtermind that wasn't tainted by normal strength.

If you gain x strength from pewter and store it into a metalmind without the allomantic strength you will always have the issue of growing so massive that you have an upper limit of strength to be gathered.  However if you were to have a pure allomantic pewtermind then there shouldn't be any difference of compounding it and storing it into new pure metalminds... 

I do agree it would be harder for sure.  If you gain 200% of your strength from Allomantic pewter and then you store 201% of your strength total you will have that 1% that would compound as well ending up with a duralumin fueled pewtermind burn potentially blowing you up so big that you can't move.  

Tapping the bands is all we saw.  There are more limits on tapping the bands than on burning your metalminds.  What we saw with Miles would suggest that if you burn 1 full metalmind you could/ should fill 10 new metalminds.  Compounding is so potent because you theoretically only ever have to store a fraction of a seconds worth of an attribute and assuming you have access to the metal you can then turn that fraction of a moments worth of storage into an ever flowing source of whatever attribute it is that you stored.  

Theory:

I believe that its possible Bleeder didn't even carry multiple spikes and that instead she was always a coinshot just burning her previously filled metalminds gaining 10x the speed they had been filled with.  So long as they are keyed to either you or not keyed at all an allomancer could burn a metalmind without that feruchemical power.  If Wax had swallowed the steel portion of the bands he would have had access to 10x the amount of speed that was previously stored in them... 

Even if that theory is disproved the fact stands that a fullborn would indeed be able to burn their own metalminds and so long as they have access to enough metal they would be able to advance just about to shardhood.  

That said there is obviously an upper limit for each metalminds tapping or else when the bands were first tapped they would have been instantly drained and some seriously planetary altering shenanigans would have ensued.  

But what we saw the bands do was only tapping as much as she could when Marasi grabbed the bands... if they were ingested and burnt without using another metalmind to store them it would have been more explosive.   If they were ingested and burnt along with duralumin it could have been cosmere altering.  (Again if you did not have a set up to further store all of that).  

Full born is simply the most imba being in the cosmere.  Maybe there isn't as much investiture on Scadrial compared to Roshar but a fullborn with access to stores of metal turns an end neutral system into the highest possible end positive system in the cosmere.  Their only limitation is the metals and the size of their stomach.  How terrifying would it be to see a competitive eaters stomach crammed full of the bands of mourning and a chunk of allomantic duralumin.  

[Pathfinder]

So first to stress, not saying this to imply this changes anything or is a win. Just something  I thought of that I’m surprised no one thought of.

 

So cohesion takes thing that are “solid” or “rigid” and makes them like liquid or malleable right? Tension takes that which is flexible or “soft” and makes it rigid by lining up the axi. Like taking a piece of paper and making it like steel. 
 

Couldn’t a radiant or herald with tension make their body so strong or “tense” that no amount of force would dent them?

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

10 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

So first to stress, not saying this to imply this changes anything or is a win. Just something  I thought of that I’m surprised no one thought of.

 

So cohesion takes thing that are “solid” or “rigid” and makes them like liquid or malleable right? Tension takes that which is flexible or “soft” and makes it rigid by lining up the axi. Like taking a piece of paper and making it like steel. 
 

Couldn’t a radiant or herald with tension make their body so strong or “tense” that no amount of force would dent them?

I have been questioning the limits of investiture to strengthen things for a while.  I think surge binding your clothes into armor would be more practical than yourself???  Perhaps because investiture resists investiture and as a surgebinder you yourself are invested.   Plus stormlight doesn't stick for long and I imagine it would take more and more stormlight to strengthen whatever you were trying to cause to be ridged.  

I would ask the same question about ropes and cloth that has been awakened.  If you pump breaths into something and tell it to "lift things" and tied it to a 1400lb suit of shardplate.  

If that ropes tensile strength was only rated at 1200 lbs would it snap or would the investiture used to awaken it allow it to do its job? 

There are obvious differences in breath and stormlight but breath sticks really well and stormlight doesn't.  

Given that Vasher implies you can just pump something full of breath until it does what it is supposed to do I guess the same argument could be made with stormlight.  Szeth keeps pumping more stormlight into the wall lashing until it finally breaks free.  I assume you could do the same keeping something ridged with tension.  

[NameIess]

49 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

So first to stress, not saying this to imply this changes anything or is a win. Just something  I thought of that I’m surprised no one thought of.

 

So cohesion takes thing that are “solid” or “rigid” and makes them like liquid or malleable right? Tension takes that which is flexible or “soft” and makes it rigid by lining up the axi. Like taking a piece of paper and making it like steel. 
 

Couldn’t a radiant or herald with tension make their body so strong or “tense” that no amount of force would dent them?

That's a cool idea, but I don't think it would work, for two reasons. The first is that Tension and Cohesion might not work on humans without extreme difficulty. There is variance in how easily surges can overcome the investiture inherent in people. Lashings, for example, can easily lash uninvested people, and even invested people, although that requires a larger amount of stormlight. On the other hand, A-steel and A-iron are so highly resisted by investiture that most Allomancers assume it is impossible to affect metal that is embedded in someone's body. From a narrative standpoint, I would guess that tension and cohesion are going to be bad at affecting invested objects. Stonewards aren't commonly known for dissolving the enemy or turning them to stone, after all.

Second, I don't think that making your body as strong and inflexible as steel would have a very good effect on your vital organs or movement. It would be much easier to harden your clothes instead.

[Pathfinder]

Kaladin puts the surge of gravitation on himself all the time without investiture issues. The problem with cohesion and tension is in regards to placing it on someone else. I don't see any reason why a radiant or Herald could not increase the tension strength of their body. 

[NameIess]

16 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Kaladin puts the surge of gravitation on himself all the time without investiture issues. The problem with cohesion and tension is in regards to placing it on someone else. I don't see any reason why a radiant or Herald could not increase the tension strength of their body. 

Kaladin also lashes other people all the time. But yeah, I get your point. It is entirely possible that a Radaint or Herald could use their surge on themselves. However, the fact remains that from what we've seen, they can only either make things more malleable or less malleable. Making themselves as strong as steel would likely also immobilize them. It would be much easier to wear cloth armor that you can harden at will. And a fullborn is probably strong enough to kill a Radiant even when they are as durable as they can be without killing themselves.

[Pathfinder]

Well there is a whole order (stonewards) known for pursuing unwinnable situations and coming out on top. Holding entire passes against enemies by themselves. And there is the herald of that order whose literal nick name is "Stonesinew" after all.......Just saying.....

Edited April 2, 2022 by Pathfinder

[NameIess]

12 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Well there is a whole order (stonewards) known for pursuing unwinnable situations and coming out on top. Holding entire passes against enemies by themselves. And there is the herald of that order whose literal nick name is "Stonesinew" after all.......Just saying.....

Well, Taln was known for doing that, not the Stonewards. Although they did take after him. It is possible that they could do it for short periods, such as right before they get hit by a weapon, but I doubt they could just make themselves invulnerable to anything short of a shardblade with no consequences. They could, however, make the ground liquid under their opponent's feet, the solidify it, form weapons out of stone, make instant high ground/fortifications, etc., so I don't think Stonewards (or Taln) need to be able to make themselves invulnerable to have the reputation that they do.