fullborn/radiant

[Iapetus the Titan]

Who would win in a fight? A Fullborn or a Knight Radiant with all 10 surges?

To keep the fight fair, each contender will have had 1 year with their full capabilities. The fight will take place where there is enough metal for the Fullborn to move around, but not enough to make it unfair. To start of with, the Fullborn will have full metalminds, and full metal reserves. The Radiant will have maxed Stormlight as well. Considering the healing capabilities, the fight will end when someone has "decapitated" their opponent. They are NOT aware of each other's capabilities. Please keep in mind that the Fullborn would be from Era 2, and would have access to the new metals such as cadmium, bendalloy, nicrosil, etc. 

[Aspiring Writer]

4 minutes ago, Iapetus the Titan said:

Who would win in a fight? A Fullborn or a Knight Radiant with all 10 surges?

To keep the fight fair, each contender will have had 1 year with their full capabilities. The fight will take place where there is enough metal for the Fullborn to move around, but not enough to make it unfair. To start of with, the Fullborn will have full metalminds, and full metal reserves. The Radiant will have maxed Stormlight as well. Considering the healing capabilities, the fight will end when someone has "decapitated" their opponent. They are NOT aware of each other's capabilities. Please keep in mind that the Fullborn would be from Era 2, and would have access to the new metals such as cadmium, bendalloy, nicrosil, etc. 

Fullborn. they'll eventually try and decapitate or crush their skull with their strength and move faster than they can blink.

[Frustration]

Well that depends, Assuming that we have a Radiant of every Order they could use eight blades to make unbreakable armor and use the tenth as a weapon.

[Kingsdaughter613]

Fullborn have chromium. With that they can theoretically kill the Radiant’s Spren.

[Aspiring Writer]

@Iapetus the Titan you might want to clarify how the radinet has ten surges. Do they have a spren that just gives them ten surges with plate and shard blade, is it a radient with all ten honor blades, is it someone with that unmade that gave all ten surges?

[Iapetus the Titan]

16 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

@Iapetus the Titan you might want to clarify how the radinet has ten surges. Do they have a spren that just gives them ten surges with plate and shard blade, is it a radient with all ten honor blades, is it someone with that unmade that gave all ten surges?

just because of how powerful the fullborn is, I figure the best way to even out the odds is to give the radiant spren bonds. and as many sets of plate as is reasonably possible

[Kingsdaughter613]

2 hours ago, Iapetus the Titan said:

just because of how powerful the fullborn is, I figure the best way to even out the odds is to give the radiant spren bonds. and as many sets of plate as is reasonably possible

And Fullborn can theoretically compound allomantic chromium and duralumin, allowing them to kill the Spren.

[StanLemon]

Considering how stupidly powerful Wax and Marais were with the Bands. Fullborn almost no contest. If the Fullborn takes the fight seriously they could end it before it even starts. A Fullborn is almost certainly powerful enough to Push/Pull on Plate and Blade. They're fast enough to hit the Radiant really really hard, most likely hard enough to shatter Plate. Can leach away all the Radiant's Stormlight which would prevent them from using their Surges, even the opening a Perpendicularity trick. Compounded Fortune certainly would be a big help. Have one of the most powerful healing abilities in the Cosmere. Able to think faster than the Radiant. Electrum Allomancy to see the future partially for defense. Brandon has described Determination if translated to D&D terms would be a general bonus to all skills which presumably includes combat skills. And that's not even a comprehensive list.

On a broader scale, a Radiant with all Surges would probably be considered more powerful but in terms of combat it's hard comparing most things to how utterly broken a Fullborn is

[Rushu42]

I think that either one has a chance. Fullborn are powerful, yes, but the Radiant has plate, which protects them from most forms of Investiture. Plus, the Fullborn isn't even armored. Yes, they'd have gold compounding, but the Radiant also has powerful healing (especially if access to all 10 surges includes the enhanced healing abilities of the Truthwatchers). A Radiant, if they're fast enough, can soulcast the air around a Fullborn's head into metal, or sink into the ground and come up at unexpected moments. What would really be the decider, as has been said earlier, is if the Fullborn could flare chromium and wipe out the Radiant's stormlight. Without that advantage, though, I think they could be fairly evenly matched.

[bmcclure7]

On 1/22/2021 at 0:31 PM, Rushu42 said:

I think that either one has a chance. Fullborn are powerful, yes, but the Radiant has plate, which protects them from most forms of Investiture. Plus, the Fullborn isn't even armored. Yes, they'd have gold compounding, but the Radiant also has powerful healing (especially if access to all 10 surges includes the enhanced healing abilities of the Truthwatchers). A Radiant, if they're fast enough, can soulcast the air around a Fullborn's head into metal, or sink into the ground and come up at unexpected moments. What would really be the decider, as has been said earlier, is if the Fullborn could flare chromium and wipe out the Radiant's stormlight. Without that advantage, though, I think they could be fairly evenly matched.

 I agree that this is fairly close fight but the full born as far as I can tell has the advantage. Your forgetting  That storm healing has nothing on a fullborns healing.  Nights radiance die from the decapacation fullborn only laugh. Not to mention we there practically the flash. It took vin nearly ascending to shard hood to kill the lord ruler. The last men with all ten surges  was killed by a large arrow. 

[Honorless]

A Fullborn who isn't arrogant, has access to all 16 metals as Allomantic reserves and Feruchemical metalminds, and being Fullborn have access to Compounding of all 16 metals? Well, they curbstomp Radiants utterly.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Honorless

[Aspiring Writer]

On 1/22/2021 at 10:31 AM, Rushu42 said:

but the Radiant has plate, which protects them from most forms of Investiture.

A Fullborn can tap enough strength to start breaking it

 

On 1/22/2021 at 10:31 AM, Rushu42 said:

A Radiant, if they're fast enough, can soulcast the air around a Fullborn's head into metal

One, a Fullborn will no matter be faster than the Radiant, two, Fullborn will resist all soul casting themself, and three, even you turn the air into metal, he doesn't need to breathe and can push it off his head and heal from it.

 

On 1/22/2021 at 10:31 AM, Rushu42 said:

sink into the ground and come up at unexpected moments

And? What's the Radiant going to do? You can't surprise someone who can speed up their thoughts and react in a split second not to mention move to them in a split second.

 

On 1/22/2021 at 10:31 AM, Rushu42 said:

What would really be the decider, as has been said earlier, is if the Fullborn could flare chromium and wipe out the Radiant's stormlight

Not really. you can kill a Radiant with Stormlight if you decapitate them or crush their skull, which a Fullborn can definitely do, while Fullborn's healing will make them survive pretty much anything. It's definitely an added advantage, but even if he didn't, he could still kill the Radiant easily.

[StanLemon]

Let's look at a some things, not a comprehensive list but what pops into my head

TLR and users of the Bands were able to bypass Investiture resistance with their Pushes. With almost no difficulty at that. While Blade and Plate would likely be harder, it's a very safe bet that a Fullborn can Push and Pull on them.

Progression might be able to compare to Compounded Gold considering Adolin's thoughts when he saw Renarin. Though that's our only metric so far on advanced Stormlight healing.

A Fullborn's physical strength with Allomantic Pewter would be insane if it scales anywhere near as much as Allomantic Steel did for Wax (who was able to use trace metals to fling boulders and break a stone wall) and then if you add nearly limitless Feruchemical Strength that means that a Fullborn should be able to easily break Plate and out muscle a Radiant even in Plate (though if the theory on Tension adding physical strength is true this might slightly even the strength disparity)

Gravitation will give the Radiant will give the Radiant better aerial mobility

 A Radiant just can't compete with the stores of physical and mental speed that a Fullborn would have. The Fullborn would be able to account for dozens of possibilities and quickly adjust to new things with mental speed and would be able to attack faster than the Radiant would even be able to perceive.

Radiants do have a much greater list of things they can do. Surges, especially all ten of them have a wide variety of applications.

Chromium Allomancy is very dangerous to Radiants

Seeking would likely allow the Fullborn to pinpoint a Radiant through illusions if they are doing anything other than illusions based on the Screamer spren

Electrum gives a slight future sight to a Fullborn which would warn them of danger which combined with mental speed would very much help them adapt

The Radiant would have the advantage of being able to alter the terrain with Cohesion and Soulcasting

Back to what I said in a previous post. I do think that overall what a Radiant with all the Surges could do would be greater. I just can't see them beating a Fullborn who takes the fight seriously unless they get very lucky. If the Radiant could somehow disable the physical speed then I could see the fight being more even because the insane speeds that a Fullborn can utilize combined with all their other abilities is just unfair

[Rushu42]

An important question to ask here is whether having all 10 surges also gives you the resonances of each of the Orders. If so, that negates the advantage of gold compounding; there's good evidence that the Truthwatcher resonance provides similarly enhanced healing. I mean, Renarin was crushed by a Thunderclast and popped up a second later like nothing had happened.

[mathiau]

On 21/01/2021 at 10:27 PM, Iapetus the Titan said:

Who would win in a fight? A Fullborn or a Knight Radiant with all 10 surges?

To keep the fight fair, each contender will have had 1 year with their full capabilities. The fight will take place where there is enough metal for the Fullborn to move around, but not enough to make it unfair. To start of with, the Fullborn will have full metalminds, and full metal reserves. The Radiant will have maxed Stormlight as well. Considering the healing capabilities, the fight will end when someone has "decapitated" their opponent. They are NOT aware of each other's capabilities. Please keep in mind that the Fullborn would be from Era 2, and would have access to the new metals such as cadmium, bendalloy, nicrosil, etc. 

Both sword steel and shadblade metal are allomantically viable, gold healing heals shadblade wound and allomancers can burn metal from anywhere in their bodies so... I hope the radiant got more than one shardblade. Probably doesn't work for same reason Vin couldn't burn Sazed's idon'trememberwhat mind.

Also gold compounders can survive being decapitated and be back in the fight in seconds

On 21/01/2021 at 11:18 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Fullborn have chromium. With that they can theoretically kill the Radiant’s Spren.

Wait what? Was that confirmed by Brandon? (also, in case it's a theory based on RoW, we're in the wrong subforum)

1 hour ago, Rushu42 said:

An important question to ask here is whether having all 10 surges also gives you the resonances of each of the Orders. If so, that negates the advantage of gold compounding; there's good evidence that the Truthwatcher resonance provides similarly enhanced healing. I mean, Renarin was crushed by a Thunderclast and popped up a second later like nothing had happened.

Wasn't that just progression? Pretty sure his resonance is his visions.

Edited January 25, 2021 by mathiau

[Aspiring Writer]

1 hour ago, Rushu42 said:

An important question to ask here is whether having all 10 surges also gives you the resonances of each of the Orders. If so, that negates the advantage of gold compounding; there's good evidence that the Truthwatcher resonance provides similarly enhanced healing. I mean, Renarin was crushed by a Thunderclast and popped up a second later like nothing had happened.

No, they wouldn't. It's specifically two powers that create resonances. that's why only twinborn and not Mistborn get resonances. Also, his healing is not a resonance, but gold healing is still superior by how fast it can work, especially when combined with speed.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Aspiring Writer

[Kingsdaughter613]

43 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Both sword steel and shadblade metal are allomantically viable, gold healing heals shadblade wound and allomancers can burn metal from anywhere in their bodies so... I hope the radiant got more than one shardblade. Probably doesn't work for same reason Vin couldn't burn Sazed's idon'trememberwhat mind.

Also gold compounders can survive being decapitated and be back in the fight in seconds

Wait what? Was that confirmed by Brandon? (also, in case it's a theory based on RoW, we're in the wrong subforum)

Wasn't that just progression? Pretty sure his resonance is his visions.

Yes, it was confirmed and it pre-exists RoW by a couple of years. It was discussed as a hypothetical and he said that it’s theoretically possible, but it would take a LOT of power. If anyone can manage it though, it’ll be a Fullborn.

[StanLemon]

Brandon has said that a Shardblade can't be summoned if the wielder is being affected by Chromium. As far as if it can kill spren, I can't recall any WoB on that personally 

As far as Renarin healing goes, we only have Adolin's perspective. But he did think to himself that Renarin healed faster than a usual Radiant. I'm more inclined to think of it as just the Progression Surge myself.

[Iapetus the Titan]

On 1/24/2021 at 8:27 AM, bmcclure7 said:

 I agree that this is fairly close fight but the full born as far as I can tell has the advantage. Your forgetting  That storm healing has nothing on a fullborns healing.  Nights radiance die from the decapacation fullborn only laugh. Not to mention we there practically the flash. It took vin nearly ascending to shard hood to kill the lord ruler. The last men with all ten surges  was killed by a large arrow. 

you're forgetting that that was a special case. he had swallowed a gem, and that was the source of his power. so it was easy to kill him. but for someone that has an external source of power, it'll be WAY harder to kill them

[Chinkoln]

Here’s the thing, it depends on their personality. The Lord Ruler liked to toy with people and draw it out, but if Kelsier was a Fullborn he would instantly annihilate the enemy. Here is how:

Compound speed to insane levels, then cut the Radiant into tiny pieces, enough that even Stormlight can’t heal.

Or

Burn atium

Or

Kill their spren

Or

Compound pewter and LITERALLY CRUSH THEM

These are only a few of many ways to beat a Radiant

[KSub]

The Lord Ruler was a fullborn. He had enhanced allomancy but I don't think he had access to all of the metals... someone feel free to correct me on that.

Someone with the lord rulers power would be almost unstoppable. But we haven't seen all of the radiant orders yet, or any radiants who have sworn their fifth ideal. And would a 10 surge surgebinder have resonances between all of their surges? Tough call. I would have to say fullborn.

[Kingsdaughter613]

2 hours ago, KSub said:

The Lord Ruler was a fullborn. He had enhanced allomancy but I don't think he had access to all of the metals... someone feel free to correct me on that.

Someone with the lord rulers power would be almost unstoppable. But we haven't seen all of the radiant orders yet, or any radiants who have sworn their fifth ideal. And would a 10 surge surgebinder have resonances between all of their surges? Tough call. I would have to say fullborn.

10 surge surgebinder would not, just like a Mistborn/Full Feruchemist would not. Too many powers prevents it.

[Chinkoln]

8 hours ago, KSub said:

The Lord Ruler was a fullborn. He had enhanced allomancy but I don't think he had access to all of the metals... someone feel free to correct me on that.

Someone with the lord rulers power would be almost unstoppable. But we haven't seen all of the radiant orders yet, or any radiants who have sworn their fifth ideal. And would a 10 surge surgebinder have resonances between all of their surges? Tough call. I would have to say fullborn.

The Lord Ruler could access all the metals, but he didn't know about all of them. He didn't know about Chromium, Bendalloy, Chromium, or Nicrosil. That reminds me, he could just super speed over, break the Shardplate with compounded pewter, and then just erase all of Radiant's Stormlight with Chromium. If the Lord Ruler needs a break, he can burn bend alloy, compound steel, or burn atium. These would all make him uncaring about the attacks.

No resonances for either of them.

[KSub]

11 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

10 surge surgebinder would not, just like a Mistborn/Full Feruchemist would not. Too many powers prevents it.

Makes sense.

Let's not forget about compounded emotional allomancy. Burn some zinc to make the surgebinder more aggressive then flare brass when they attack to crush their spirit.

The biggest advantage the surgebinder has is their shards.

[Chinkoln]

16 minutes ago, KSub said:

The biggest advantage the surgebinder has is their shards.

A fullborn can heal from shardblade wounds, and if the metalminds are COMPLETELY full, they would put up some resistance to the Shardblade. And the Fullborn can theoretically kill the spren.

The Shardplate doesn’t even matter. The Fullborn is almost definitely strong enough to be able to steel Push Shardplate, so with a good anchor (or compounded weight) then they could send the Radiant flying, or they could Pull the Radiant to them and smash their plate with a compounded pewter fist.