Impact

The Fused before being Fused

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At the end of RoW, Leshwi asks Venli if her spren knows a specific honorspren.

Honorspren are obviously related to Windrunners, who seem like the counterparts to Heavenly Ones

This makes me wonder if all the brands had bonded a true spren before becoming fused, and that spren influenced what brand they became.  I don’t mean a Nahel bond, but more like a gemheart bond.  So like all the Heavenly Ones had Honorspren in their gemhearts, Masked ones had mistspren, regrow the would have Cultivationspren, the abrasion ones had Ashspren, division would be Highspren, transformation would be Cryptics, Husk ones would be Elsecallers, Deep ones would be Reachers, and whatever has tension would be Peakspren.

 

I know its not perfect, because obviously the spren each grant 2 surges normally, but I still feel like there is something there.

 

I’m sure this theory has been floated some way or another, but its been itching at the back of my brain for a few days now.

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Could be. Would also provide another alternate explanation for why there's no Adhesion Fused, as well (I simply do not believe Odium truly is incapable of granting it, because it goes against everything else we've been told about how granting powers works).

1 hour ago, Impact said:

This makes me wonder if all the brands had bonded a true spren before becoming fused, and that spren influenced what brand they became.  I don’t mean a Nahel bond, but more like a gemheart bond.

If so, perhaps if they died with those bonds still active, the separation of spren and singer spiritwebs left a temporary gap Odium was able to fill in, if he acted quickly enough?

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I like the idea that the Fused had proto-Nahel bonds with true spren, but in OB (ch. 38) the Stormfather indicates that the Fused did not always have access to Surges:

Quote

[The Fused] are their kings, their lighteyes, their valiant soldiers from long, long ago. [...] And even before the Fused learned to command the Surges, men could not fight them.

After the Desolations began, there was just a time when the Fused were reincarnating, without any particular Surges. Then Odium granted them Surges, perhaps to match the Heralds. And he excluded Adhesion for some reason. [But also, the envoyform voidspren grants language abilities similar to Bondsmith spiritual Adhesion... maybe it doesn't count as a "surge" if it's just a form of power. I don't really understand how forms of power work tbh.]

Anyway, a potential timeline:

  • before the Desolations: proto-Nahel bonds between true spren and singers, may grant some type of Surge
  • spren turn away from the singers/the singers turn to Odium/idk it's all very unclear as of now
  • Desolations begin, Odium creates the reincarnating Fused, they have no Surges
  • humans are losing, the Oathpact is made, Honorblades now exist
  • Odium grants Surges to the Fused
  • humans & spren invent Nahel bonds to copy the Honorblades
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My speculation.

I think dawnsingers (singers prior to the arrival of humans and without Odium's influence) bonded higher spren in a similar way that they bond lesser spren now. It "completed" the singer (a singer without a spren bond is "dullform" and seem to be missing something, mostly Cognitively) in the same way as a lesser spren bond and included a constant companion. Spren were able to experience the Physical Realm through the singer, but were locked in the gemheart.

The betrayal came when the higher spren began Bonds with humans, even preferring Bonds with humans. Spren learned they could actually freely roam the Physical (within a certain distance of the Bond) if they were Bond to a human. This freedom made spren choose the humans and singers were left with only lesser spren bonds. Add to this the fact that Bonded humans ended up access to surges (probably due to Connections they brought over from Ashyn, which was destroyed due to Surges). This became a wedge that Odium exploited to get singers and humans fighting with each other. Odium offered singers new bonds and new powers, creating Regals and Fused.

Another wedge would be convincing humans that they deserved more than just the land of Shinovar.

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2 hours ago, Leuthie said:

The betrayal came when the higher spren began Bonds with humans, even preferring Bonds with humans. Spren learned they could actually freely roam the Physical (within a certain distance of the Bond) if they were Bond to a human. This freedom made spren choose the humans and singers were left with only lesser spren bonds. Add to this the fact that Bonded humans ended up access to surges (probably due to Connections they brought over from Ashyn, which was destroyed due to Surges). This became a wedge that Odium exploited to get singers and humans fighting with each other. Odium offered singers new bonds and new powers, creating Regals and Fused.

That would actually make a ton of sense.

4 hours ago, Impact said:

I know its not perfect, because obviously the spren each grant 2 surges normally,

Except the Fused only get one. So maybe that’s related to the differences between a gemheart bonding and a Nahel Bond. Extrapolating from the OP’s idea of Ancient Singers Bonding High Spren in their gemhearts,  the Spren may well have decided to go with humans because of the increased freedom and capability Leuthie points out and the increased power they could invest to humans.

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*Pedantry Start*

A Nahel bond is any bond with spren; the Rhyshadium, greatshells, and singers bonds with "lesser" spren are classified as such.

The bond between a Knight and their Spren is classified as a "Radiant" bond, which is under the umbrella term "Nahel Bond". Confusing, I know, but that is the terminology.

*Pedantry End*

The Dawnsingers also apparently did something to make the spren angry at them and I have no idea how that fits in with the general timeline.

 

Edited by tilionvevfet
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7 hours ago, Leuthie said:

My speculation.

I think dawnsingers (singers prior to the arrival of humans and without Odium's influence) bonded higher spren in a similar way that they bond lesser spren now. It "completed" the singer (a singer without a spren bond is "dullform" and seem to be missing something, mostly Cognitively) in the same way as a lesser spren bond and included a constant companion. Spren were able to experience the Physical Realm through the singer, but were locked in the gemheart.

The betrayal came when the higher spren began Bonds with humans, even preferring Bonds with humans. Spren learned they could actually freely roam the Physical (within a certain distance of the Bond) if they were Bond to a human. This freedom made spren choose the humans and singers were left with only lesser spren bonds. Add to this the fact that Bonded humans ended up access to surges (probably due to Connections they brought over from Ashyn, which was destroyed due to Surges). This became a wedge that Odium exploited to get singers and humans fighting with each other. Odium offered singers new bonds and new powers, creating Regals and Fused.

Another wedge would be convincing humans that they deserved more than just the land of Shinovar.

Huh... thats super on point! I never realized Odium had worked both sides at the same time and Honor and Cultivation too had claimed both sides at the same time. Kudos!

I would assume the switch went like this:

- Odium seduced Ashynites with promises of power, luring Ishar (and others?) into experimenting with the Surges in a destructive manner. Not sure if Ashynites knew about H&C and whether they had any influence on Ashyn.

- Humans escaped to Roshar. Not sure if Odium planned for or wanted that. Reagrdless, Honor saw this as an opportunity to take away from Odium's power. He spoke to the human leaders and offered them safe shelter, asking the singers to comply.

- Honor and Cultivation became both revered by both humans and singers. Odium was present in the system but rejected by humanity due to what happened on Ashyn.

- Proceeds as Leuthie points out. Some humans would of course continue to look to Odium for power and their voices would eventually find their way to seducing humans out of Shinovar. In the meantime Odium worked the singers secretly, fanning their sense of betrayal that land was taken by newcomers, and maybe he was even able to work on some of the spren to cause their gradual preference for humans instead of gemheart bonds.

- Tensions escalated, Honor and Cultivation.tried to reconcile both parties but over the long run they lost the singers and were unable to curb human advance (this is the most dubious point seeing how they were infinitely powerful and should have been able to better influence humans but lets go to Shard limitations for that).

- War broke out. Honor believed this could be quickly done with and by forcing Odium out of Roshar and on Braize, he could win back the singers. Odium outtricked him. The war went forver and the singers never lost their sense of  betrayal.

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13 hours ago, Kyn said:

That would actually make a ton of sense.

Except the Fused only get one. So maybe that’s related to the differences between a gemheart bonding and a Nahel Bond. Extrapolating from the OP’s idea of Ancient Singers Bonding High Spren in their gemhearts,  the Spren may well have decided to go with humans because of the increased freedom and capability Leuthie points out and the increased power they could invest to humans.

I meant that lining up the True Spren with the surges was harder than I thought because how do you determine which Spren offers which surge. 

 

16 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Could be. Would also provide another alternate explanation for why there's no Adhesion Fused, as well (I simply do not believe Odium truly is incapable of granting it, because it goes against everything else we've been told about how granting powers works).

If so, perhaps if they died with those bonds still active, the separation of spren and singer spiritwebs left a temporary gap Odium was able to fill in, if he acted quickly enough?

Adhesion is supposed to be only accessible to Honor, because of the physical representation of a bond. 
 

also, I don’t think the Fused died with the bonds, they split with the True Spren and then became Fused later

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13 hours ago, tilionvevfet said:

A Nahel bond is any bond with spren

Ah, thank you. I wasn’t looking at the actual bonding ecosystem, so I guess I mistakenly thought of the Nahel Bond as only the specific instance of the Radiant Bond with the way Syl spoke of it in I-1 of RoW:

Quote

“A Bondsmith created—or at least discovered—the Nahel bond: the ability of spren and humans to join together into something better.”

Obviously if it were something the Bondsmith discovered, it predated Radiants. But…where can I find the Singer or Rhyshadium spren bonds classified as Nahel Bonds?

1 hour ago, Impact said:

I meant that lining up the True Spren with the surges was harder than I thought because how do you determine which Spren offers which surge.

Yeah, that sounds complicated. I got nothing, but I’m sure somebody here’s been working on this.

1 hour ago, Impact said:

Adhesion is supposed to be only accessible to Honor, because of the physical representation of a bond.

also, I don’t think the Fused died with the bonds, they split with the True Spren and then became Fused later

This wouldn’t be the first instance of certain abilities being limited to a particular Shard. I think you’re probably right about why this one is only Honor’s, too. If it’s an ability tied to Honor’s nature, how could Odium grant it?

It seems pretty unlikely the Fused inherited powers by dying with True Spren bonds if they didn’t have those powers at first. Still, it could be possible the spren they held when they died determined what abilities they developed when Odium empowered them.

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Thank you! And for the rest of that WoB.

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6 hours ago, Impact said:

Adhesion is supposed to be only accessible to Honor, because of the physical representation of a bond.

Why not say Gravitation for that, or something like Cohesion or Tension that acts directly upon bonds? And why doesn't Cultivation have anything similar? Why can Honor grant Division, which seems directly opposed to him? And perhaps most importantly, why does the Nightwatcher grant Adhesion, when she should be pretty much the most Cultivationy spren we have? Also:

Quote

Chaos

Allomancy provides many very dramatic effects, which some have noted is not very much like Preservation. Could you walk me through how Allomancy is of Preservation, though it does dramatic, dynamic things?

Brandon Sanderson

One of the 'basics' of the magic in all of the worlds is that the energy of Shards can fuel all kinds of interactions, not just interactions based on their personality/role. I did this because otherwise, the Magics would all be extremely limited.

The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do. So, in Preservation's case, the magic is a gift--allowing a person to preserve their own strength, and rely upon the strength granted by the magic. While Hemalurgy has a huge cost, ending in net entropy.

/r/fantasy AMA 2011 (Aug. 31, 2011)

 

Quote

Czanos

Preservation can fuel Allomancy, (minus atium.) but can Ruin fuel Hemalurgy? (Or atium?) And could Sazed fuel all three Metallic Arts?

Brandon Sanderson

Both gods could, if they wanted, fuel all of the Metallic Arts. Preservation is stronger at fueling Allomancy, Ruin stronger at fueling Allomancy or Feruchemy when it has been given via a spike. Both are balanced when it comes to Feruchemy. But this rarely comes up in the books, as it required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

If Preservation could "fuel" Hemalurgy, I see no reason Odium could not grant Adhesion. 

4 hours ago, Kyn said:

This wouldn’t be the first instance of certain abilities being limited to a particular Shard

I don't recall any examples of this, which are you talking about?

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33 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Why not say Gravitation for that, or something like Cohesion or Tension that acts directly upon bonds? And why doesn't Cultivation have anything similar? Why can Honor grant Division, which seems directly opposed to him? And perhaps most importantly, why does the Nightwatcher grant Adhesion, when she should be pretty much the most Cultivationy spren we have? Also:

 

If Preservation could "fuel" Hemalurgy, I see no reason Odium could not grant Adhesion. 

I don't recall any examples of this, which are you talking about?

I could swear that the fused mentioned being unable to use Adhesion because it was granted by Honor alone. The physical aspect part was more my reasoning why and can totally be wrong 

 

Edit: Rabonial says “they claim a tenth, of honor alone. adhesion is not a true surge, but a lie that was presented to us” (chp 32)

 

I don’t believe the lie part, because I feel like it’s the Fused being salty, but they seem to think it is of honor alone. 

Edited by Impact
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6 minutes ago, Impact said:

I could swear that the fused mentioned being unable to use Adhesion because it was granted by Honor alone. The physical aspect part was more my reasoning why and can totally be wrong

They do, but you said "This wouldn’t be the first instance of certain abilities being limited to a particular Shard", so I was wondering what the other magic system effect limited to one Shard you were taking as precedent was. 

And the Fused understanding of Surges is... somewhat flawed. Such as suggesting that Honor and Cultivation invented gravity.

While the Sibling does back up Adhesion being pretty heavily Honor, I don't trust that Odium can't actually grant it, and more specifically I don't trust that the Fused have any idea what they're talking about on this topic.

Instead, I think that Odium was scared of the potential a Fused with power over Connection could have (for example, could they maybe break their dependence on him and Connect to a different source of power?), and so he pretended he couldn't do it, using its association with Honor as an excuse. And the Fused, not knowing the deep mechanics of how this works, bought it, and bonus points, it made them even saltier towards Honor than they were before! (And if a Surge was of Honor and Cultivation only, I don't see why that would let Odium use it any more than one of Honor only.)

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1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

They do, but you said "This wouldn’t be the first instance of certain abilities being limited to a particular Shard", so I was wondering what the other magic system effect limited to one Shard you were taking as precedent was.

No, I said that.

I thought atium and other God Metals were a pretty clear example of this. Even the mere existence of most Allomancy is supposed to be based purely on Preservation. If atium instead draws on purely Ruin’s power with no Preservation in it, then isn’t it an ability granted only by that Shard?

Then you get into healing abilities coming from connections with Cultivation, and I thought it was pretty clear that certain abilities come purely from certain Shards. That’s not to say other Shards might not have abilities that have similar effects – Preservation confers its own brand of healing – but this doesn’t change that these abilities seem to be unique to their Shards. They are certainly unique within their own systems.

Edited by Kyn
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1 minute ago, Kyn said:

No, I said that.

Oops, my bad. Should've paid more attention to usernames :lol:

3 minutes ago, Kyn said:

If atium instead draws on purely Ruin’s power with no Preservation in it, then isn’t it an ability granted only by that Shard?

It's more that it draws on the power that the metal itself is made of. It's not like it draws extra Ruin in from the Spiritual, the way normal Allomancy does with Preservation. 

5 minutes ago, Kyn said:

Then you get into healing abilities coming from connections with Cultivation, and I thought it was pretty clear that certain abilities come purely from certain Shards.

If that's the case, then either Odium shouldn't be able to grant Progression (which he can), or not being able to grant Adhesion doesn't fit. 

7 minutes ago, Kyn said:

but this doesn’t change that these abilities seem to be unique to their Shards. They are certainly unique within their own systems.

Should that not apply to the other nine Surges too, if they're of just H&C?

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1 minute ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Should that not apply to the other nine Surges too, if they're of just H&C?

Do you mean Odium ought to be able to mimic/counteract all Shardic abilities if he can mimic/counteract any?

Why would we assume that? Wouldn’t we expect Odium to only be able to mess with abilities that fell within his purview, and only be unable to mess with abilities that were too far from his nature/Intent? Whether it’s one of the Surges or another Shardmetal’s granted abilities, there’s no reason simply belonging to another Shard should make an ability off-limits to Odium.

But there’s every reason, with beings of power chained by Intent, for an ability being too limited to another Shard’s Intent to put it out of Odium’s reach. An ability being contrary to Odium’s own Intent – being a pure ability of another Shard – should make it in at least some small respect off-limits to him.

Windrunners were seen as most likely to resist the suppression of Radiants because they were closest to Honor, presumably because/why they bore the pure-Honor Surge of Adhesion. It seems likely Honor’s tendency toward connection/binding is particularly contrary to Odium, making the Windrunners more likely to resist being knocked out than those closest to Cultivation.

Even so, despite Lift only being awake because she ran on Lifelight or had a deeper cognitive connection/presence, it was only her Progression that still worked. Being close to Honor in particular might have made Windrunners more resistant to being taken out of commission by the oppressive voidlight, but only their Adhesion worked.

It’s likely these two abilities were out of reach of suppression because they’re “purer” in that they’re closer to their relevant Shards and farther from Odium’s Intent. But something about Honor itself was viewed as even farther from Odium’s grasp, making Honor’s purest Surge off-limits for emulation as well as for suppression.

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1 minute ago, Kyn said:

Wouldn’t we expect Odium to only be able to mess with abilities that fell within his purview, and only be unable to mess with abilities that were too far from his nature/Intent?

To quote this WoB again:

Quote

Chaos

Allomancy provides many very dramatic effects, which some have noted is not very much like Preservation. Could you walk me through how Allomancy is of Preservation, though it does dramatic, dynamic things?

Brandon Sanderson

One of the 'basics' of the magic in all of the worlds is that the energy of Shards can fuel all kinds of interactions, not just interactions based on their personality/role. I did this because otherwise, the Magics would all be extremely limited.

/r/fantasy AMA 2011 (Aug. 31, 2011)

The effects of a magic system are not limited by a Shard's Intent. 

3 minutes ago, Kyn said:

An ability being contrary to Odium’s own Intent – being a pure ability of another Shard – should make it in at least some small respect off-limits to him.

Should Division not be very contrary to Honor's Intent? And yet, Radiants get it, and not just Radiants, but one of the orders that would seem to be closest to Honor. 

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3 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

The effects of a magic system are not limited by a Shard's Intent. 

Nice WoB, thanks. But…what you say here is not the same thing the WoB quote stated.

Mostly, I’m confused as to what you’re arguing against. Are you conflating the general “interactions a Shard can fuel” with what most people seemed to be actually talking about, specific “abilities a Shard can instill in its followers or inhibit in opponents”?

Since we’ve literally seen, in RoW, that there are limitations upon these abilities, the only thing to argue about is why these limitations exist. There are plenty of different possible interpretations for why Odium does not grant or suppress Adhesion.

Maybe, even though the evidence supports it, the in-universe interpretation that a certain ability (Surge) is too close to Honor for Odium to mimic or counteract is wrong. Maybe the assumption that it’s Shards’ Intent that limits them from achieving certain effects like this is wrong. I’d love to see other interpretations.

4 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Should Division not be very contrary to Honor's Intent? And yet, Radiants get it, and not just Radiants, but one of the orders that would seem to be closest to Honor.

I assumed Division was heavily related to Cultivation, since she’s about change and pruning/culling is a part of that, which would mean this was not sufficiently purely of Odium’s Intent to be denied to Knights Radiant.

Of course, all known Radiant Surges are born of Honor and Cultivation, so I’m not sure why you would expect either Shard to deny access to a part of something they made together? If the two of them both created this system together, then even if they included Surges that were True Surges for either of their Shards, they wouldn’t – couldn’t, working together like that – have created Surges that were contrary to either of them.

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31 minutes ago, Kyn said:

Nice WoB, thanks. But…what you say here is not the same thing the WoB quote stated.

Questioner asks why Allomancy has so many destructive effects, Brandon says Shards can fuel any interactions, not just those based on their Intent as an answer. How is that not what it says?

31 minutes ago, Kyn said:

Since we’ve literally seen, in RoW, that there are limitations upon these abilities

I disagree that we have seen Odium cannot grant Adhesion. We have not seem him do so, and have been told by somebody who clearly does not have a complete understanding about this topic (as displayed by thinking that Honor and Cultivation invented the things culture associates with the Surges, like gravity) that he can't. However, I feel there is a perfectly adequate alternative explanation that fits better with what we have been told about the way magics work.

31 minutes ago, Kyn said:

Of course, all known Radiant Surges are born of Honor and Cultivation, so I’m not sure why you would expect either Shard to deny access to a part of something they made together? If the two of them both created this system together, then even if they included Surges that were True Surges for either of their Shards, they wouldn’t – couldn’t, working together like that – have created Surges that were contrary to either of them.

I do not feel the creation of the Surges and Surgebinding is as intentional by Honor and Cultivation as you are saying. We know the Surges of Surgebinding are in no small part due to perception, and so Earth for example would have different Surges granted if it had Nahel-capable spren. We also know that there were "seeds" that led to this perception, but considering how much of Roshar has been set up by Adonalsium (including the entire system itself), I would hesitate to attribute that to H&C, and would find it more likely it was Adonalsium who did so. As such, I do not think they made any choices here, I think it's the same way the Metallic Arts have their weird effects mostly unrelated to the Shards behind them.

 

Edit: Sorry, am a bit tired, so this is sorta rambly.

Edited by LewsTherinTelescope
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On 1/16/2021 at 0:59 AM, Jorr said:

In the meantime Odium worked the singers secretly, fanning their sense of betrayal that land was taken by newcomers, and maybe he was even able to work on some of the spren to cause their gradual preference for humans instead of gemheart bonds.

This point about Odium potentially being involved in luring the spren to prefer humans makes so much sense. We know he's all about emotions and has the ability to inflame/strengthen emotions. And we know that the spren are drawn to humans because of the way they experience emotions.

Great theorizing all around in this thread.

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The WOB does say that it's not about fueling or interacting with them but granting them. So Odium can interact with Adhesion and even fuel it but he can't grant it any more than Ruin could grant Allomancy.

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3 hours ago, sentinel said:

The WOB does say that it's not about fueling or interacting with them but granting them. So Odium can interact with Adhesion and even fuel it but he can't grant it any more than Ruin could grant Allomancy.

I’ve been specifically differentiating the two – granting vs. fueling – where some posters have not. Which WoB is that? There are apparently a lot I’ve lost or never seen.

On 1/17/2021 at 0:44 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I do not feel the creation of the Surges and Surgebinding is as intentional by Honor and Cultivation as you are saying

I’m pretty sure I said nothing about them intentionally working together, only working together? And nothing at all about them choosing what they grant or deny. Because they’re conscious, any interaction could be intentional, but I never assumed conscious intent (or consciousness behind Intent) was necessary for any interaction on the parts of forces undergirding reality.

Fundamental forces interact in very proscribed ways in our universe without any consciousness guiding them. There’s no reason Intent can’t be (just, or also in addition to conscious driving of effects) a fundamental spiritual force as integral to the way reality works, and as automated in its effects and abilities to interact with other Intents, as fundamental physical forces here are.

On 1/17/2021 at 0:44 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

However, I feel there is a perfectly adequate alternative explanation that fits better with what we have been told about the way magics work.

Great! Please share. I think we’re all here to hear these kinds of explanations. Because we still have awhile to wait for author confirmation of what brought the Fused into their particular power sets, and how (if at all) that relates to what they were (and potentially what Spren they held in their gemhearts) before becoming Fused.

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4 hours ago, Kyn said:

I’m pretty sure I said nothing about them intentionally working together, only working together? And nothing at all about them choosing what they grant or deny. Because they’re conscious, any interaction could be intentional, but I never assumed conscious intent (or consciousness behind Intent) was necessary for any interaction on the parts of forces undergirding reality.

I misunderstood you, then. The way it was phrased to me sounded like you were saying it was intentionally done. My bad.

4 hours ago, Kyn said:

Great! Please share. I think we’re all here to hear these kinds of explanations. Because we still have awhile to wait for author confirmation of what brought the Fused into their particular power sets, and how (if at all) that relates to what they were (and potentially what Spren they held in their gemhearts) before becoming Fused.

Hmm, I'm getting déjà vu, but scrolling up, I don't actually see this being asked earlier. Weird. That aside, I did actually mention my theory on it above. I'll put it here again for convenience:

On 1/16/2021 at 3:52 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I think that Odium was scared of the potential a Fused with power over Connection could have (for example, could they maybe break their dependence on him and Connect to a different source of power?), and so he pretended he couldn't do it, using its association with Honor as an excuse. And the Fused, not knowing the deep mechanics of how this works, bought it, and bonus points, it made them even saltier towards Honor than they were before

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48 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Hmm, I'm getting déjà vu, but scrolling up, I don't actually see this being asked earlier. Weird. That aside, I did actually mention my theory on it above.

Yeah, I had that feeling too.

Anyway, I saw that post you quote, but Odium intentionally keeping Adhesion from the Fused to nerf their power would only answer the question of why Odium seemingly couldn’t grant Adhesion. Assuming Odium simply chose not to grant Adhesion does more than contradict what the characters believe, something that could admittedly be mistaken. It also lacks the elegance of explaining why Odium’s Voidlight didn’t suppress either Adhesion or Progression.

For such a theory to be convincing would require that it be supplemented with an explanation for this failure to suppress, not just for the lack of granting Adhesion.

Furthermore, that theory requires a double standard – a conscious implementation of powers, which you have argued against in regards to the effects of the other Shards here:

On 1/17/2021 at 0:44 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I would hesitate to attribute that to H&C, and would find it more likely it was Adonalsium who did so. As such, I do not think they made any choices here, I think it's the same way the Metallic Arts have their weird effects mostly unrelated to the Shards behind them. 

A theory is simply more convincing when it evinces logical consistency. It is not logically consistent to assume one god intentionally limited powers conferred to his agents out of fear for their potential power, while also insisting the other gods did not intentionally choose powers to grant.

Yes, in a world with such interfering gods, divine intervention and individual Shardic choices are a viable potential reason for many things. It’s not necessary for there to be an underlying “Shardic Physics” of Intent explaining all this evidence, despite being the solution the characters believe in and one in-world events support. It’s just neater.

I tend to prefer a parsimonious theory that enforces a single set of universally-applied constraints and opportunities that explain all observed evidence. That’s a personal preference, but scientifically, when one possible solution provides a reliable, consistent effect across tests/observations, it’s more plausible. Occam’s Razor suggests that a more complicated explanation is only likely to be the correct one if it better explains observed evidence.

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