Character dead pool

[CosmereComrade]

Okay, so, with RoW published and asuming most of us have already read it well and are discussing about it, I think it's time to create a little game that can go on to the day book 5 is published, as in, a character dead pool.

The rules are as follows:

1.- Submit up to 5 characters you think are going to die in book 5 (mainly to don't make this too long, while mantaining a clean vorin number)

2.- Make an argument on why you think they are going to die (because it will be a good plot point, or because of the way you picture the character arc...)

3.- Make a guess on how the death will be.

So, the final result should look like this (this is just an example)

1.- Kaladin:

Why: His arc is going to be completed in book 5, achieving the 5ft ideal and not having a real progress from that point, making him a perfect character to kill of in the 5ft book

How: Fighting Dalinar, who has become a puppet-fused controled by Odium

2.- Lirin:

Why: In a similar way as Kaladin, him accepting the vision of his son is a way of closing most of his character arc. His death is just the last step Kaladin needs to be able to swear the fifth ideal.

How: Actually fighting against enemies who, trying a new strategy (very plausible with the change of vessel for Odium), directly attack the weakened soldiers in Lirin's clinic. He is finally killed by Moash, who, after killing Lirin, does the bridge 4 salute to Kaladin.

3.- Gavinor

Why: To finally break Dalinar, making him able to join Odium's forces, something really bad has to happen. Gavinor's death is THE turning point for this.

How: Following the footsteps of his father and grandfather, he dies in front of people who try to protect him

 

Your character pools can be completely serious and actually trying to predict things that you think are likely to happen, or more of a joke. It's up to you!

I hope you like the idea and I'm excited to see your responses.

 

[CosmereComrade]

Okay, I just noticed there is still a spoiler and spoiler-free section.

How do I delete this? oh god I'm so stupid

[NameIess]

8 minutes ago, CosmereComrade said:

Okay, I just noticed there is still a spoiler and spoiler-free section.

How do I delete this? oh god I'm so stupid

You can either report it to be moved, which I already did, or you can click the "moderation actions" button and it will have an option to hide this topic.

[CosmereComrade]

Just now, Nameless said:

You can either report it to be moved, which I already did, or you can click the "moderation actions" button and it will have an option to hide this topic.

Okay, I went to Chaos's post on the spoiler policy, and have also reported it. I'll hide it now, so I hope it doesn't spoil anyone. Thanks!

[Theoryspren]

1. Dalinar 

Why - Because he has said he will be his own champion in the battle of champions and if TOdium is locked away for a thousand years who will be the BBG. I could see a point being made that Moash could become the BBG to leave TOdium as the Mistborn Era 4 BBG but still. So I think Dalinar will have to die so that TOdium can be an evil force in the next 5 books.

How - Dying to TOdiums champion in the battle of champions.

2. Venli

Why - Because I feel like her arc is a contrast to her sisters. Eshonai started as the perfect willshaper, become evil, brought her people into the evil, and broke free just to die. While Venli was evil, became good, delivered the radiant spren to her people, and now it’s her turn to die.

How - She will die sneaking into Kholinar to tell the Singers there they don’t need to follow Fused rule and can become willshapers. Luckily either Leshwi or Thude will deliver the message and willshaper spren to the singers to become radiant.

3. Ishar

Why - Because it is high time for another Heralds death and who better than the Herald who most of the other Heralds take advice from. By taking him out the fused would be sending a clear message to the other Heralds that none of them are safe.

How - He will die conflicted as he watches Dalinar and TOdiums champion fight not knowing who serves Odium and while distracted will be knifed in the back by Moash or El

4. Hessina 

Why - Because Oroden will be old enough to be a character in the next 5 books and he needs a tragic background and while I am sure the death of Kaladin would hurt, the kid has only met him a couple of times. And I still feel as if Lirin still has room to grow and what more would set that off than by watching Hesina struck down and taking revenge in the spur of the moment and realizing latter what he has done.

How - I think Hesina might go out into a balcony to check on Kaladin who is in the middle of fighting fused or others and as she watches will get struck down by some nameless fused or Moash. I really hope Moash does this and Lirin somehow manages to then kill Moash though I don’t believe it will happen. I think it will just be some random fused.

5. One Unmade

Why - I don’t know which it will be but we have seen Heralds die, and the Unmade are kind of Odiums parallel and now with the discovery of anti light I think one of them will be struck down.

How - I have no clue but possibly one of the ones in Shinovar as Kaladin or Szeth could strike it down. Maybe Szeth does it with Noghtblood.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Theoryspren

[NameIess]

Well, I'm guessing we'll get at least one character death in KoW

1. Adolin

I'm putting him up here mostly for nostalgia's sake.

2. Dalinar

With the contest of champions, I would put Dalinar's chances of death at somewhere around 45%. 

3. Kaladin/Szeth/Nightblood/Moash/Ishar/Nale

With the Shinovar arc, I'm guessing that one person will die in it. I don't think that Kaladin will die, Szeth is also unlikely, although possible, and the others are all dependent on the way that the story ends up going.

[Pandora's shard]

1- Kaladin - Ishar's experiments will go so far ahead, he will be able to bring spren to physical realm more permanently without damage. Syl will become human. Kaladin, having already lost his mother and father Infront of him, and having spoken 5 th oath, will die protecting syl and she will become one of the main characters in book 5 onwards. And, finally he will have one satisfaction, that he dies, where others live.

2- Dalinar- He will die twice in the book. Once, after the first battle with Todium, and then, having turned fused, second time by the hands of Adolin. The second death as fused will mark his character conclusion in Stormlight Archive and will become free to roam about in Cosmere doing Todium's work (while also believing on his views for atleast 50% of times)

3- Kalak - He will figure out the way to get the physical body and leave Roshar. He will help get to Ba-Ado- Mishram and then, just when he will be about to reach his goal, he will be killed by Mraize, who will then reveal that he is a sleepless and will send the info of CS leaving planets to Kelsier, starting the next phase of Cosmere. 

4- Kaladin's Parents- Moash will kill both. Infront of Kaladin. And then he will leave the scene. He will not kill Kaladin's little brother because he respects Kaladin the most in the world. 

5- Adolin's and Dalinar's Ryshadium- Seeing Brandon's trend of killing horses in the major ending books, Adolin's Ryshadium will die, while showing the faith he had never shown even to Dalinar and protecting Adolin's life. 

6- Ishar - Will get killed by Szeth, just after being lucid and feeling guilt of what he has done.

 

My predictions!!!! 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Pandora's shard

[GroundPetrel]

Kalak and Ishar are dead meat IMO.  Not sure who else.  I'm not seeing Kaladin or Dalinar dying, at least not before swearing 5th Ideal.  And Dalinar has a lot of growth to do before making that level.  

[Eri]

9 hours ago, CosmereComrade said:

Okay, so, with RoW published and asuming most of us have already read it well and are discussing about it, I think it's time to create a little game that can go on to the day book 5 is published, as in, a character dead pool.

The rules are as follows:

1.- Submit up to 5 characters you think are going to die in book 5 (mainly to don't make this too long, while mantaining a clean vorin number)

Adolin.

Otherwise, hmm, let's make some guesses... Navani, Shallan, Leshwi... Syl.

9 hours ago, CosmereComrade said:

2.- Make an argument on why you think they are going to die (because it will be a good plot point, or because of the way you picture the character arc...)

• Adolin: he's just the expendable one. Non-magic user, happy, not crucial to the plot (like, say, Dalinar). I really like and enjoy him, but feel like he's gonna go.
• Navani: She's the second Bondsmith, we don't need two. Also, too many main characters make book slow down. I wish Dalinar died instead, but this doesn't seem likely. There are many characters I'd wish dead instead of Navani, but we're talking bets, not hopes.
• Shallan: Not many readers like her (though I do), also she generally completed her character arc now. And killing Adolin and not her would be too sad, and not in an interesting way.
• Leshwi: She's a noble antagonist, looks very likely to die heroically for Kaladin (in the "redemption equald seath" trope). Also, she's a Fused, so essentially, she cannot live being a good gal, because she has to steal bodies to respawn.
• Syl: I initially wanted to steal the Hesina idea, but a) we know spren can be perma-killed. b ) people would loooove seeing Kaladin go all the way from square zero again c) he will bond a new spren ofc d) probably Notum or whatever his name was, or at least one of those we've seen e) losing Syl would hurt Kaladin more than losing his mom f) I think Brando Sando realized that too much of dead mothers is a cliche. 
  (Yes, they are all mostly female. I can't think of more main male characters that don't seem essential to the plot. Maybe because I focus on fellow women and remember them better. Maybe.)

9 hours ago, CosmereComrade said:

3.- Make a guess on how the death will be.

• Adolin: sacrificing himself for Maya, somehow. I have no idea about the details. Anyway, in a cool fight.
• Navani: something humilating? Probably tricked by Tod.
• Shallan: together with Adolin, HoA-finale-style.
• Leshwi: sacrificing herself for Kaladin, probably killed by Moash
• Syl: Moooaaash! With anti-Light. Also, we'll get a Stormfather reaction gif chapter.

(Note: While this is not a trolling post, much of it is in the vein of "Brando Sando, I beg you, prove me wrong, show me that you're better than this".

Except Adolin and Syl. I think those deaths could make powerful moments and are worth it. Even though I'm not a fan of Kaladin's PoV. But when I thought of Syl, I loved how unexpected, yet logical this death would be in this story. And Adolin... he just feels too much like an extra.)

[CosmereComrade]

8 hours ago, Theoryspren said:

 

4. Hessina 

Why - Because Oroden will be old enough to be a character in the next 5 books and he needs a tragic background and while I am sure the death of Kaladin would hurt, the kid has only met him a couple of times. And I still feel as if Lirin still has room to grow and what more would set that off than by watching Hesina struck down and taking revenge in the spur of the moment and realizing latter what he has done.

How - I think Hesina might go out into a balcony to check on Kaladin who is in the middle of fighting fused or others and as she watches will get struck down by some nameless fused or Moash. I really hope Moash does this and Lirin somehow manages to then kill Moash though I don’t believe it will happen. I think it will just be some random fused.

 

Well, brandon sure does like killing of wives/mothers to give people tragic backstories (if only he hadn't named hessina!).

This gave me an idea for a new character arc for our good old Kal: His mother dies, his father gets crippling depression and he has to both make advances in mental health research and educate his brother by himself.

¿Wouldn't that be awesome?

[Eri]

40 minutes ago, CosmereComrade said:

Well, brandon sure does like killing of wives/mothers to give people tragic backstorie

This.

Another point into Adolin dying theory: Brandon also likes sometimes flipping genders in a trope. So one husband dying, and the score is clear again, can go back to killing wives.  /s (Actually Brandon gets better all the time, also in stuff like female characters, so I hope there won't be a lot more dead wives, especially after the double one. Or unnamed dead mothers. )

[GroundPetrel]

6 hours ago, CosmereComrade said:

Well, brandon sure does like killing of wives/mothers to give people tragic backstories

And brothers.  Tien, Reen.  

[Elegy]

I don't think any of the three main characters will die. It's too early for that.

Judging from her work in Rhythm of War, Shallan seems to have a bright future as a spren scholar ahead of her and fits into the back five very well as a mentor figure in that manner. Actually, as it stands right now, Shallan has the best chances - besides Jasnah - to become an immortal world-hopping character that will still be relevant for Space Age Cosmere. It might seem like she's not liked (which isn't really true, there's just some very vocal haters), but Brandon outlined a lot of the Cosmere (including Stormlight 1 through 10) before even writing the first book, so that will not be a factor. He knows what will happen to the characters, and the audience reaction is not gonna change much about that.

Dalinar was one of the first ideas that Brandon had for Stormlight, one of the very first characters he created, so I doubt he'll throw him away half-way through the series (even though his death would be technically plausible and fit with his redemption arc).

As for Kaladin, his future points towards helping people that are suffering from mental illness, and his work there is not done yet. It's something for him to do between books 5 and 6 - something that won't be dangerous for him, but still fulfilling, since he can help people in a different way. Also, Hoid told him that it will get worse, then better, then worse, etc., which, in my opinion, would feel odd if he told him that like 10 days before his death. It makes it seem to me like Brandon intended Kaladin to have a whole life ahead of him.

My guesses are: Szeth, Taravangian (yep, I say he's going to be a 10-day-Odium), maybe the Stormfather (since the Honorspren in Lasting Intergrity stated so explicitly that noone knows what would happen if he dies), Mraize, and maybe one or two more members of Bridge 4, but I'm not sure about that. Ishar is very plausible as well, but I think Brandon is going to keep most of the Heralds to be more important in the back 5.

36 minutes ago, GroundPetrel said:

And brothers.  Tien, Reen.  

. . . and Gavilar, and Helaran Davar . . .

Edited January 13, 2021 by Elegy

[CosmereComrade]

6 hours ago, Eri said:

This.

Another point into Adolin dying theory: Brandon also likes sometimes flipping genders in a trope. So one husband dying, and the score is clear again, can go back to killing wives.  /s (Actually Brandon gets better all the time, also in stuff like female characters, so I hope there won't be a lot more dead wives, especially after the double one. Or unnamed dead mothers. )

Or just unnaned mothers that are still alive... yeah.

I do totally agree tho, Brandon's writing is evolving on a very rapid pace (for example if you compare his Reckoners series with Skyward you notice how much better he got in that specific genre in no time!). So maybe we are thinking in the wrong direction here, but I still think Adolin is a very good character to kill in SA5. Even if it hurts my heart

[yulyulk]

52 minutes ago, Elegy said:

Taravangian (yep, I say he's going to be a 10-day-Odium)

I almost agreed with you, but narratively speaking, Mr T has been built up as a worthy antagonist across 4 books. He's bound to have more than 15 minutes of cosmere fame. And who's gonna pick up the shard again? Ms Koravellium Avast

[Eri]

I got an idea. You know what might be even better than Syl perma-Dying?

Pattern perma-dying, Shallan reconciling/4-Idealing with Testament (which she is close to) and kicking the but of a very surprised Moash or whoever killed Pattern. (She wouldn't kill Moash, he belongs too much to Kaladin's arc, but she'd totally trash him). And Shallan-Testament relationship would be... difficult. And great to read.

I love Pattern more than Syl, he's awesome and funny and all. But this would make a good narrative.

TBH I doubt both Pattern and Adolin would die, Shallan is not some Kaladin to be kicked down this hard by the story all the time.

[Elegy]

18 hours ago, yulyulk said:

I almost agreed with you, but narratively speaking, Mr T has been built up as a worthy antagonist across 4 books. He's bound to have more than 15 minutes of cosmere fame. And who's gonna pick up the shard again? Ms Koravellium Avast

Well, we haven't had the chance to see a Shard without a holder gain sentience yet, so the back 5 might be a chance for that. Maybe that process takes 10 Rosharan years. 

19 hours ago, Elegy said:

. . . and Gavilar, and Helaran Davar . . .

. . . and Elhokar . . .

[CosmereComrade]

3 minutes ago, Elegy said:

Well, we haven't had the chance to see a Shard without a holder gain sentience yet, so the back 5 might be a chance for that. Maybe that process takes 10 Rosharan years. 

 

Well, for the record, I don't necessarily agree on book 5 being 10 days. Who knows, Brandon could give this a twist, being the 10 days resolved in part 1 and having the other 4 parts to cope with whatever the outcome of that is.

In that sense, Taravangian could win that champion duel and still be defeated at the end of book 5 (maybe Ishar Connection stuff so Dalinar doesn't belong to Odium anymore).

I definetly think Taravangian is going to live after book 5, however, his death would be climatic (in the way that he could be the first part BBEG and if he first defeats Dalinar and is defeated after that, it could still give him some more protagonism in the book).

[LuckyJim]

I've only got two real guesses.

Szeth, I feel like if any of the five flashback characters are going to die, it's gonna be him. It would feel like poor taste to kill of Kaladin right as he's finally turned a corner for real healing, Shallan seems like she's going to have a lot more worldhopping stuff going on in the future, Venli's character arc and journey towards Radiance has just barely begun and Dalinar... well, we'll see I guess.

Leshwi I don't think any of the Fused who turned away from Odium are going to last much longer. It's not so much that I think they're going to be hunted down, I just think that it will be harder to live without his direct support.

Edit: Also one more, Moash. I really don't think we're going to get any curveballs or surprises with Moash. Either he does one final good thing and dies in the process (likely protecting Kaladin) or he goes completely off the deep end and is killed by some other guy (but probably not Kaladin) after having far overstayed his time as a villain. Either way, Moash does not make it to part two.

Edited January 19, 2021 by LuckyJim

[Shob the Voidbringer]

i'm thinking really hard on this and i'm not sure, i don't like characters dying, but even thinking logically, not a lot of characters are actual options. i have more thoughts but, i don't want to shut down or dominate this thread, so i'll just note that no one in bridge 4 will die, because the 2 most important characters (rock and teft) from here are out of the story, and plenty have died unmentioned

anyway, i'll honor the thread

1. Balat. reason: the Ghostbloods threatened shallan's family when she rejected them, and shallan laughed in their face about how they couldn't do anything to her family. how: soon after shallan gets back to Urithiru, she meets up with her family and an assassin shoots at balat, but misses, making them aware of the assassin. as shallan searches for them they blow-dart balat in the neck.

[AquaRegia]

The more I read and think on it, the more I think Kaladin HAS to die in book 5.  I don't LIKE it, but everything points to it.

He has been, by far, the character with the most screen time over 4 novels.  We know him inside and out; we really have nothing left to learn about him.  We've seen him beat down, ready to give up, over and over.  We've seen him get back up, over and over.  It makes narrative sense that we'll see him have one last moment of despair, one last crucial fight, and make one last spectacular sacrifice, then head off to the Beyond.  The MAIN character, the one we've been following the most closely all these years, makes the final sacrifice so that all the other characters can go on with more stories in the back 5.

Mistborn Era 1 spoiler:

Spoiler

Just as we saw with Vin at the end of Hero of Ages.  Kaladin is clearly the Vin of Stormlight 1-5.

I also think the "5 books, 5 Ideals" thing is spot-on.  Sanderson loves numerical relationships and symmetry.  And I agree that, given who Kaladin is, if there are innocent people in need of protection in the back 5 books (and OF COURSE there will be), he'll have to be involved if he's still around... ergo he will not be around.  Syl will be, though - there's still lots of things we don't know about HER backstory.  I predict she will have a tough time for a while, but will eventually bond a new Radiant.  Maybe someone we already know...

Kaladin will swear his 5th Ideal just in time to save the day in a bigger, badder, and more amazing way than anything we have seen so far, then die.  And we will have tear splotches all over our expensive hardcover pages.

[The Sibling]

On 1/13/2021 at 3:15 AM, Eri said:

• Navani: She's the second Bondsmith, we don't need two. Also, too many main characters make book slow down. I wish Dalinar died instead, but this doesn't seem likely. There are many characters I'd wish dead instead of Navani, but we're talking bets, not hopes.
•  

If Navani dies then both of Dalinar's wives will have died. Honestly if he somehow killed Navani that would be so sad but also kind of make sense. 

[CryoZenith]

1. Dalinar

Why: I think Todium is highly competent and clever and it would narratively make a nice contrast to see a Todium scheme succeed right after we've seen multiple Rayse schemes fail.

How: Losing the duel of champions.

2. Kaladin

Why: I think it has a nice rhythm to it to have his character arc move from "I want to die." to "I found meaning in life and want to live." to "I still love life and find it meaningful, but in this particular situation I will sacrifice myself because it is the right thing to do."

How: Overwhelmed by multiple high-Ideal skybreakers while protecting Urithiru.

3. Ishar

Why: This is actually tied in to Dalinar failing to win the duel of champions. Ishar being too dangerous and insane to keep alive, but also the one source of information on bondsmith powers that could help out Dalinar, but the context being such that it would be, unfortunately, too dangerous to make peace with him.

How: Nightblood go stabby stabby.

4. Venli (this is my only prediction which is a joke, I wouldn't bet money on this, but it would bring personal satisfaction)

Why: I don't like Venli.

How: Stray nonmagical arrow in the back, not even intended to hit her, fired accidentally by someone on her side.

[RAFOmancer]

-Adolin:Saving someone ,but dying in the process ;because blondies always die(I've made a whole list of them)

-Shallan :Being tricked by a Fused ;because she got overconfident with her abilities.

Edited September 2, 2022 by RAFOmancer

[Just a Silvereye]

I think Dalinar is going to become a Fused after losing the contest, and return in the back half as an antagonist. He might very well be killed only then, possibly by someone close to him (Adolin? Renarin? Jasnah? Navani?) Also, the Stormfather would probably die or at least be severely crippled if Dalinar loses. 

I think at least one other important character will die, but I don't know who. Szeth, Moash, Ishar mainly come to my mind.

I really hope Kaladin doesn't die, because it would undermine his entire arc which was about accepting that life is worth living even though he lost several of his loved ones. Brandon just can't give him an ending like " Now that I have accepted life is worth living I can die"

And lastly,

Spoiler

I have a feeling that Gavilar is going to die early in the book