Understanding the epilogue

[apepi]

29 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

It's mentioned that Odium, via various agreements, isn't able to directly act much on most people. The agreement protecting Hoid appears to be a different agreement, which I guess allows for the wording to be looser and allow more loopholes than the protections for everyone else?

I always assumed all the shards made some deal at the start right before or right after, which also included the one that some of them think shards shouldn't be on the same worlds.

[hskeeter]

On 3/21/2021 at 8:02 AM, Emurii said:

Yes, but Investiture is not physical matter. It can't be directly destroyed, and when it's co-opted, we see red show up. If Odium could just run around zapping out everyone's Investiture, this battle would be pretty easy. 

I googled again and there's a great thread here rehashing all of this. Tl:dr; most likely explanation is that the breaths were stored in a physical object (one of the coins? It felt like he didn't have both anymore) and that object was taken. 

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/93219-hoidodium/

Investiture is more like power/energy.  It fuels magic/life. Not sure it can be destroyed, but it can be used and no longer available.  Example is stormlight being used to heal someone or make a person move faster.

[Emurii]

23 hours ago, hskeeter said:

Investiture is more like power/energy.  It fuels magic/life. Not sure it can be destroyed, but it can be used and no longer available.  Example is stormlight being used to heal someone or make a person move faster.

Yes, Investiture follows conservation rules - it cannot be created or destroyed. You can expend it and lose access to it (like energy), but in this scenario Hoid did not expend Breath, so if it cannot be destroyed it must have been taken. If Odium could straight-up sap someone's Investiture, he would be a lot more OP than he has been shown to be, so taking an external object invested with Breath is the most plausible explanation of how Todd could take Hoid's Breath without harming him.

[hskeeter]

Let's not forget Odium is a shard and thus has a lot of power and capabilities.  WOB in Livestream 23 did state "he (odium/todium) did actually remove and excise a little bit of Breath."

[Lockheart]

I was kind of concerned initially and with my reread of that final scene. But reading through the discussion here, I had an epiphany.

Hoid is a Lightweaving Feruchamist... and Odium is blind to him.

Could he have "invented" memories, stored them in the coin along with some breaths, for the very slight of hand he rambles about in his monologue? What better way to trick Odium than by allowing him to steal fake intelligence?

Edited April 1, 2021 by Lockheart

[Bejarden]

1 hour ago, Lockheart said:

I was kind of concerned initially and with my reread of that final scene. But reading through the discussion here, I had an epiphany.

Hoid is a Lightweaving Feruchamist... and Odium is blind to him.

Could he have "invented" memories, stored them in the coin along with some breaths, for the very slight of hand he rambles about in his monologue? What better way to trick Odium than by allowing him to steal fake intelligence?

I’m not sure it’s confirmed he’s a furechemist 

And Hoid does not remember (and we’re in his POV) what has happened 

Also Odium did not take the memories but rather excised them

[Lockheart]

I thought I read a WoB he was... but admittedly I dont spend nearly enough time here, and have no friends who are cosmere fans. 

Went back and reread the epilogue and I misread (twice [sigh]) about where his memory was stored... I still stick by my theory though- as half of his trick coin is missing... its not mentioned what it is made from, but it could be a coppermind. 

 

Speaking of copperminds, I found this on The Coppermind on Hoid's page... "However, he does have access to some unkeyed metalminds". 

[Bejarden]

This is probably not right and I can’t fact check because I don’t have RoW in front of me.

But wasn’t the coin missing because Hoid had already done the trick and taken it out, then he lost his memory and forgot he moved it. I don’t know, I’m probably remembering wrong and if someone can check that would be great

[Lockheart]

Maybe Im just focused too hard on the missing part of the coin, because it was mentioned but he doesnt search for it... 

[Master Silver]

On 3/19/2021 at 10:20 PM, Emurii said:

So, the epilogue made me extremely anxious, and sort of soured what had been an amazing book experience (but in a good way, I guess, in an "oh great now there is this huge cliffhanger that won't resolve for two years" kind of way). I agree that Mr. T's only *intended* goal is to cut out their recent interaction, because I don't think T understands who and wait Hoid is yet, but right before the Breath is erased we are told that Hoid is terrified of this happening, because a /lot/ of his memories are stored in Breath.

I'm not worried about him losing perfect pitch, he can get that back. But what did T delete along with the interaction? If you think about it like computer packages when you download or send a file, the data is all sort of hodgepodged into different packages (...is my understanding, pardon me if this is an incorrect analogy), and isn't necessarily related chronologically, etc. The fact that Hoid's spren is missing is supposed to clue us into the fact that something is /very/ wrong. 

So... I wouldn't get too comfy yet.

Yeah it is a chilling cliffhanger isn't it? This is where I think Hoid's bond is going to come into play. His spren is going to meet back up with him. Hoid is going to try to perform the same trick again (since she didn't witness his awesomeness) and explain that she has seen him do it before. Right before meeting Odium. Then Hoid will know what happened. But likely, this won't happen till it is our almost is too late to do anything to change the plan. 

[Bejarden]

I do believe that Perfect Pitch will let Hoid know what happen 

Also what happened could he noticed ( maybe it’s referring to perfect pitch 

Quote

 

 

Paulo Henrique

Did Odium destroy some of Wit's Breath, or did he mess with it in some other way?

Brandon Sanderson

What Odium did to Wit could be noticed. There is something missing there. It left an imprint, something noticeable, and he did actually remove and excise a little bit of Breath.

 

#hoid #odium #taravangian