AquaRegia Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 I find it odd that no one has mentioned Trell here. I almost voted for Autonomy, because I recall speculation that Autonomy = Trell ... but do we KNOW that? In any case, Trell is clearly being set up as A big bad on Scadrial going forward, which makes it at least a possibility for THE big bad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valigus Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 57 minutes ago, KSub said: I see where you're going Valigus but why would she do that? What would be the benefit of swapping vessels, especially if she gave up her own shard? You are trying to match characters to the shard they best represent but that won't make someone able to better use the shards. The shards are singled minded in their intent to the extreme. Just because someone is an exemplar of what a particular shard represents, people are multifaceted. We see that even the highspren are more like people than the things they represent. Cultivation seems to have set up a regime change on Roshar but I don't think she intends to go anywhere. Why would she want to set up a replacement odium, cultivation has as far as we know the best future sight of the shards she could be seeing things far in advance we don’t yet know of or understand. On top of the fact that the person she put as odium clearly intends to go out into the cosmere so she likely has intent spanning it. it’s not just about matching characters it’s about matching people who can hold the power in check. valor needs to be someone who understands that sometimes you need to live to fight another day, which kaladin has learned how to do. odium needs to be and is no someone who understands emotions and their extremes. Devotion needs to understand to whom it must be devoted to and when that devotion is no longer the right thing which szeth is perfect for. cultivation must be someone who understands the value of growth and at the same time the cost of that growth which makes lift a prime candidate. this is a shard we are talking about there is no reason to assume she has no intentions outside of roshar. it is also within her nature, she wants change that’s the whole point of cultivation and shardholders being the same people for a long time is the opposite of change so it’s within her intent to want to change it up and in that situation why would the mind not try to create more perfect shardholders who are not so clearly flawed as the original since we have commonly seen them struggling against the power of their shards. Edited January 16, 2021 by Valigus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clovermite Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Valigus said: I am convinced that cultivation will be the big enemy and that she has been manipulating everyone from behind the scenes, I think that she is currently creating a shardholder for every single shard I'm definitely with you that Cultivation will end up being a big enemy, and that she is cultivating people to become shards. Teravangian thinks he's about to pull one over on Cultivation, but I believe she wants him to go out into the cosmere to act as her pruning shears. I don't think she wants to Lift to be her replacement though, nor do I think that cultivation is just about change, but about pruning weeds and creating as perfect as possible crops (ie getting the best fits into the shards). Thinking back to Lift's wish - not wanting to change, it seems to me that the shard that best fits that intention is Preservation. Preservation no longer exists on it's own, however, as it has been merged with Ruin into Harmony. And I think Lift fits the intention of Harmony very well - she contains both a very chaotic nature in her tendency for stealing food and general disregard for tradition, as well as a very protective nature in wanting to keep people like Gawks from getting killed. I think that Cultivation might be trying to set up Lift to take over the shard of Harmony, with Teravangian being the weapon she uses to deshard Sazed. I think Cultivation is a good contender for the final big bad, and it would be a good twist, I'm just leaning more towards Hoid right now as that is a bigger twist in my opinion. But I definitely believe she is going to be one of the big players in the final 5 as a co-antagonist with TeravOdium. Edited January 16, 2021 by Clovermite 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valigus Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Clovermite said: I'm definitely with you that Cultivation will end up being a big enemy, and that she is cultivating people to become shards. Teravangian thinks he's about to pull one over on Cultivation, but I believe she wants him to go out into the cosmere to act as her pruning shears. I don't think she wants to Lift to be her replacement though, nor do I think that cultivation is just about change, but about pruning weeds and creating as perfect as possible crops (ie getting the best fits into the shards). Thinking back to Lift's wish - not wanting to change, it seems to me that the shard that best fits that intention is Preservation. Preservation no longer exists on it's own, however, as it has been merged with Ruin into Harmony. And I think Lift fits the intention of Harmony very well - she contains both a very chaotic nature in her tendency for stealing food and general disregard for tradition, as well as a very protective nature in wanting to keep people like Gawks from getting killed. I think that Cultivation might be trying to set up Lift to take over the shard of Harmony, with Teravangian being the weapon she uses to deshard Sazed. I think Cultivation is a good contender for the final big bad, and it would be a good twist, I'm just leaning more towards Hoid right now as that is a bigger twist in my opinion. But I definitely believe she is going to be one of the big players in the final 5 as a co-antagonist with TeravOdium. While I agree at first glance it makes more sense for her to be preservation, I feel like in terms of her personality fitting what cultivation seems to be going for in the shards lift doesn’t quite match. Her reluctance to move on and desire to not grow up makes her better for reigning in cultivation. Just like I think vin was the best person to reign in preservation, lift I think would lean to hard into preservation and fall to the intent to easily and completely at least at this point. On top of the fact that I think in the short term it’s fair to assume that lift, taravangian and dalinar are gonna take up the three rosharan shards since they are the only confirmed and direct interference. I think her pruning of others is much less direct for example kaladins mysterious wind power ups could be from her, she may have been speak into evi who I belive whorshiped her, and I think she may also be the reason nobody remembers jasnahs childhood illness. Mira also possible another part of her master plan is that at some point all these people will want to surrender the shards to reform adonalsium 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSub Posted January 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Alright, I'm getting on board with this theory. So odium goes to attack scadrial and cultivation stays on roshar with dalinar as a splinter of honor to protect her. It's possible that Odium could turn out to be trell in era3. I think trell is connected to autonomy but maybe not. I just realized that the shards might use the power of the splintered shards to make someone a splinter who could act as a sort of avatar. Does that make sense? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valigus Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 9 hours ago, KSub said: Alright, I'm getting on board with this theory. So odium goes to attack scadrial and cultivation stays on roshar with dalinar as a splinter of honor to protect her. It's possible that Odium could turn out to be trell in era3. I think trell is connected to autonomy but maybe not. I just realized that the shards might use the power of the splintered shards to make someone a splinter who could act as a sort of avatar. Does that make sense? Especially because we know odium had some influence on Scadrial and my theory is it may have to do with kelsier and the noble hatred thing. I think odium is trell especially based on the fact that trying to take out Scadrial early makes a lot of sense, rn roshar has by far the best most dangerous, disciplined, trained and experienced armies and magic users in the cosmere. The only disadvantage they have is technologically if say you managed to kidnap a couple gunsmiths and grab a few crates of guns you could get people soul casting ready made perfect aluminum guns and tons of gun powder (since you can soulcast stuff into aluminum). Plus the set is very much taravangians style and have red eyed “faceless immortals” which to me sounds like mavset-im the lightweaving fused I think kaladin may be what you’re proposing and that’s why he is called son of tanavast and has been star powers either kaladin himself or syl being the oldest honorspren are splinters of honor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSub Posted January 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 29 minutes ago, Valigus said: Especially because we know odium had some influence on Scadrial How do we know this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valigus Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 47 minutes ago, KSub said: How do we know this? Wob, Sanderson said he has limited influence on Scadrial Questioner Is there anything I should look at as a hint for something we haven’t figured out yet? Brandon Sanderson Oh, that's a good question too. There are moments through the entire original trilogy that people haven't figured out yet. But they've picked out most of what they are, they just don't know why. Like they know something weird is happening, they don't know-- They haven't guessed why the weirdness is happening. The weirdness is figure-out-able, but it would be hard. But it's not outside of reason for you to figure out why these certain moments-- these moments people have not yet figured out. Questioner Because Odium had influence on Scadrial. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Not a ton, but yes. Questioner ...Kelsier had an irrational hatred for Nobles. Brandon Sanderson He did, he did indeed. Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015) Edited January 17, 2021 by Valigus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSub Posted January 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) I was actually searching for some info on Odium and stumbled across that WOB earlier today. Thanks for clarifying though. So how does Odium influence someone? I think we saw him do that when Kaladin was fighting the Pursuer. I'm not sure if Odium was able to do that because Kaladin is a surge binder or if he just has the ability to do fuel someone's anger. Also, does that mean we have to look out for lightweavers through out the cosmere now? Edited January 18, 2021 by KSub 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basement_boi Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) The space whales will show up and try to enslave humanity. I’m sure of it. Edit: I actually think the Sixth of the Dusk 2 reading shows that we will end up in a 3 faction interplanetary war: Scadrial vs Roshar vs other planets (potentially Nalthis and Taldain) There won’t really be a BBEG. Edited January 20, 2021 by basement_boi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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