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Snakenaps

1,11,2021 - Snakenaps - Name of the King - D3 Chapter 36 (2,910 words)

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Coming down to the wire. Only four chapters left. No notes otherwise. I want your unbiased reactions.

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This is a good sequel to the scene of last chapter. Moving up to the events of the last page plants a seed of dread running through things.

I might have had a different reaction even before last week...but as it seems with a lot of our works here, there are striking similarities between events in our culture. Not...a whole lot else to say...

 

Notes while reading:

pg 3: "it was a sign of respect. More honorable than she would have expected from him."
--I think by now, with all the things Ir. has seen, this shouldn't be too much of a surprise. TBK usually acts honorably.

pg 4: "No matter what she chooses, I will allow your family to say their goodbyes"
--I feel like there's a disconnect through the whole book with how TBK acts and how everyone perceives him. Pretty much every response has been reasonable for a person in a position of extreme authority, even lenient. Yet everyone expects his next action to be iron-handed and cruel. Is there a reason why?

pg 6: "Each of them was unharmed, she was sure"
--why? Has she had any word?

pg 7: "After all, they had each betrayed each other to save the country they were loyal to."
--no, Ir didn't betray anything. She's only reacted to continued attacks from S, each time getting more overt. Ir has always sought to lessen the conflict. I get that she's feeling this, but if this is what she believes, it might be important to stress in the book what really happened, like have other character tell her she's been acting reasonably or something.

pg 8: "I heard of your deal"
--how? I thought Ir was going to be the one to tell her?

pg 9/10: I think these reactions are really good. Four years ago, I might have said they were unreasonable, but the amount of gaslighting S is doing to Ir. is unfortunately consistent with a lot of families I've seen. I think we've learned lately just how much people are willing to delude themselves and ignore evidence in front of their faces.
The only corollary to this I have is that it's going to have a big effect on Ir. and her family in later books. S has committed herself, and I wouldn't want to see this brought down later in the story, like S suddenly "sees the light" and decides to be rational.
I think bulking up the revolutionaries' story near the beginning could also give a better reason for why S started on this path, despite how it ended up. Would make this even more powerful.

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The Wire, now there's a good show.

Meine Kommentare.

(page 1)

- "mindlessly shifted to the right" - now does she do that being on the floor? Is everyone else standing? I'm to seeing this right.

- "Their sparks would turn into..." - How can two peoples' sparks become a whole flock of birds, or a whole field of thousands of flowers?

- "would need something with less hours" - <cough> fewer hours <cough>

- Where is this line? Inside, outside?

- "shrank with the rise of the sun" - rising, IMO.

(page 3)

- "not to create slaves out of territorial acquisitions" - struck my ear awkwardly. Slaves are people, but territorial acquisitions sound like land. The two don't seem compatible.

- "by guillotine or another reasonable method" - 'other' would scan better, IMO. Also, reasonable method of execution seems like a contradiction in terms to me.

- "in the iron mines to the north" - This to me sounds like the mines are just to the north of the city, compared to something like 'in the north', which sounds like the far north, north of the The Wall, etc.

(page 4)

- "to probation with community service" - these are totally modern terms. Also, still think that five years would be a more reasonable relaxation for the least scenario.

(page 5)

- "bent her sitting form into a kind of bow" - Awkward phrasing. Can't she just bend forward into a kind of bow? I know already that she's sitting.

(page 6)

- "She turned towards the right, to the dormitories" - IMO, 'She turned to the right, towards the dormitories.' Sounds better, I reckon.

(page 8)

- "In the center of it all" - All what? All that was described was the bars.

- "Ir fell a step back" - This sounds like she's actually fallen over. Can she not just...'took a step back'.

- "slave myself away for ten years" - Sue's tone is not quite working for me. Why would she know of the offer to reduce the sentence? In Draft 2, was Ir not the one to bring that news to Sue? Maybe I am misremembering that detail. Still, it seems to me more effective if Sue think it's twenty years. Although...I can see how you save half a page by having Sue know already. Fair enough. I've talked myself out of it.

- Good emotion. Sue's role in this scene is not perfect, IMO.

(page 9)

- "make sure I chose slavery" - 'choose': it's still in the present, the decision is still to be made.

(page 10)

- "and your golden musicians.” Sue..." - great line, missing comma for period.

- "If only Ireen could make herself believe that." - The last line...it doesn't land for me. I like the ending without out it. I know it's a completely different dynamic to the ending, but somehow the existing version was really predictable, IMO, and therefore not especially satisfying.

Overall 

Super. Roll on next Monday. Lots of emotion and anger, rage in fact, but also fear and just a general tone of weariness underlying everything. I think the danger is that the stakes are quite different now. We've talked about lengthening the stakes of the rebel attack through the book, which I think I recall was how you were going to go, so, given that a long(er) arc of rebellion has just come to an end, when need to be sustained to the end of the book by whatever tension remains, whatever stakes, remain. I think it's a case of being all over that and ensuring the reader still feels there is a satisfying and weighty conclusion to be had in these final pages.

Nice work :) 

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Pg 1:

I like the opening paragraphs.  The sense of detachment as she’s trying to work through her thoughts comes across really well. 

“less hours” Time has a couple strange exceptions when it comes to less vs. fewer, but I’m almost completely sure this should still be “fewer hours.”

Pg 2:

“not even noticing its soft cushions” But she did notice them.  Her PoV just told us so.

Pg 3-5:

“More honorable…[through the end of the scene]” I don’t know if it’s just jumping in late, but I haven’t seen any sign of him being dishonorable.  There’ve been a few instances of him considering putting Ir’s abilities for mysterious use that I don’t fully get (Chapter 33, I think?), but overall, he’s seemed honorable and considerate. I mean. I get being upset that he took over where you live, but he doesn’t seem like any sort of tyrant.

Pg 6:

“She longed to race over…she was sure,” It might make more sense for her to think that there wasn’t any reason for her friends to have been in harm’s way rather than her being sure that they were unharmed. I get where her priorities are and what she’s thinking through, but the wording feels off as it is.

“into a vase.” Oh. Okay. Are there just a lot of convenient vases nearby for roll disposal?  I don’t know why my brain stuck on this point.

Pg 7-10

A lot of reasonable fear/grief/anger pouring out in a way that feels realistic. Good emotion throughout.

“You know what…” I would have expected something more along the lines of disbelieving/grieved resignation here.  I’m not sure what kicks Ir toward anger. It seems unlikely that the lack of honor in slavery would be the comment to do it.  Even if Ir isn’t the type to plead for her sister to change her mind, I think we need a better reason for Ir to feel like she is right to be angry.  Tying those lines directly to what she’s angry with Sue about seems like a better way to shift into the feelings we see at the end than the currently more vague anger that Sue isn’t going to change her mind.  Letting Ir convince herself that it’s righteous anger for Sue’s kids’ circumstances (or something else.  I haven’t been reading long enough to know what other things they hold against each other) instead of her own grief and fear working themselves out into anger seems like it might be a stronger approach.

Overall-

Good flow throughout. I think the combination of dazed detachment and strong emotion once she sees Sue and breaks out of the detachment works well.  I hadn’t seen too many details about the religion-related worldbuilding in previous chapters other than mentioning Raviekan statues, and it’s neat to see the reincarnation aspect of that detailed a little further.  Yet again I see a lot of details of a really interesting world that I can’t get my head fully wrapped around since I jumped in so late, but some snooping around your website was helpful. :) 

Continuing to look forward to reading through this!

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I read through this without making a single comment. I think it is one of the best chapters in the book. It's packed with emotion and the perfect follow up for the previous chapter. 

9 hours ago, Mandamon said:

The only corollary to this I have is that it's going to have a big effect on Ir. and her family in later books. S has committed herself, and I wouldn't want to see this brought down later in the story, like S suddenly "sees the light" and decides to be rationa

I agree. S really is beyond a point of no return here, and there would have to be something equally traumatic to bring S back to I in a convincing way.

9 hours ago, Mandamon said:

I think bulking up the revolutionaries' story near the beginning could also give a better reason for why S started on this path, despite how it ended up. Would make this even more powerful.

Agree.

8 hours ago, Robinski said:

- "slave myself away for ten years" - Sue's tone is not quite working for me. Why would she know of the offer to reduce the sentence? In Draft 2, was Ir not the one to bring that news to Sue? Maybe I am misremembering that detail. Still, it seems to me more effective if Sue think it's twenty years. Although...I can see how you save half a page by having Sue know already. Fair enough. I've talked myself out of it.

 

I didn't read the last version, but in this one, the convo with the BK made think that I was going to tell her about the sentence, which would have been pretty awkward. It did work well with her already knowing.

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Overall, I thought this chapter was very effective for nearing the end of the book. I don't have much to say about it other than my lbl's. Good job! 

Opening the doc now

Pg 2 “had it not been for the cougar” so did the cougar remind her to bow?

Pg 3 “your warning” did it really tho?

Oh btw it took me this long to say anything because I’m really getting pulled into this chapter. Really good so far :-) I especially like how she feels numb right now. That emotion feels very real here.

“more honorable” when has he not been honorable? The story keeps on telling me he’s evil but he’s really been neutral at best. As in, morally grey.

“the incorrect opinion” ok, this addresses it a little. I think if we had some kind of obvious scene with the differences between the rumors and the real BK< this would be more clear. Like, if there was a scene where Ir hears some of the rumors and thinks about how he isn’t really like that, maybe? Though maybe you already did that

Pg 5 “the rest your contract” The rest of your contract

Yeah, he is being super nice to her right now. Perhaps too nice…

“scrabbled” like the hit board game?

Pg 6 “nothing but nightmares” NICE
pg 7 I struggle to remember these directions, I imagine it would be even harder for IR with her emotional state.

“they had each betrayed…” I think might sound better as “they had each betrayed the other”

Pg 8 Why does S get her own cell?

How did she hear about the deal?

“SORRY” YES

Pg 9 “I want M and Pa” oof

Pg 10 this seems pretty petty for the last things they ever say to each other.  

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7 hours ago, shatteredsmooth said:

I didn't read the last version, but in this one, the convo with the BK made think that I was going to tell her about the sentence, which would have been pretty awkward. It did work well with her already knowing.

Yeah, I've finished changing my mind over this. If Ir has to tell Sue we then need to get Sue's immediately reaction and no doubt some more blowing up, and it would tend to bog down the scene. I agree.

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Really coming down to it huh?

I have to say, there was some really nice tension built up for this confrontation with S. The kind where I don't want to read it but I HAVE to read it :-)

A few small notes:

In the second prayer "them" is the only word not in italics which looks a little odd. 

It calling her mom and dad by their names made me question for a minute if I had somehow misunderstood their family structure. It seems strange given how stressed she is that she would mentally call her parents by their names when she is so close to them.

"Sorry won't bring T back

Missing end quotes 

 

The beginning felt a little disjointed, but I assumed that was intentional to reflect Ir's mental state. 

The meeting with the BK is the only part that left me a little cold, I guess because their conversation was what I had assumed would happen? It seems like in the past every meeting with the BK has been a big pivot point, and this time was just a friendly 'carry on'. But then, you wouldn't want to steal the thunder from talking with S. Probably the right move :-)

Looking forward to the next piece!

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You know why don't I try out that whole LBL thing for once?

Pg 1

-If Ir is convinced that S is going to be executed when she was captured, why side with the BK so wholly? 

Pg 2

-Still the same question. If the resistance losing the fight is enough to make her give up all hope, why side against them completely? 

Pg 3-4

-BK's actions make sense here. I think this is consistent with my read on him: wants to be compassionate when he can, but puts order above all else. 

Pg 6-7

-What is this scene trying to accomplish? Right now I care a lot more about Ir talking with S than knowing the details of how she gets to the prison. 

Pg 8

-All caps and exclamation marks has the opposite effect of what I think the intention is. To me, it says that the story can't express its own emotions and tries to force it with punctuation instead of language. 

Pg 9

-At the risk of sounding hypocritical as an American given my country's situation, why and how were the resistance ever in a position to win? The guards should be better armed and better fortified than the resistance, even if they're outnumbered. Resistance narratives are great but there needs to be something spurring them on against seemingly impossible odds. Or it should be clear that BK's rule is already on the brink of collapse, which isn't the impression I was getting. 

-Bottom of the page, same comment about exclamation marks. My suggestion is to rewrite everything without exclamation marks, seeing if you can find specific words that convey harshness/conviction/whatever you're going for instead, just to get in the habit of looking for alternatives when you think you need an exclamation mark.

Pg 10

-What did this conversation actually accomplish? It's plenty realistic for the characters to butt heads and not get anywhere but scenes are expected to move the narrative forward or be summarized instead.  

Overall: 

As with many chapters, I think BK here is the strongest character. He's the only one really advancing the plot by being forced to make difficult choices. For S and Ir, the way they're going to act is pretty obvious. And while this may be odd to say given the tension of the situation, the fact that they're both sticking to their guns makes it feel like their characters aren't being pushed. There are ways for the sisters' stubbornness to lead to development in other ways, such as if Ir realizing that S will choose death convinces her to stand against the leadership, but we don't see any signs of that (also that idea of mine is not particularly good since it would make Ir seem really wishy-washy; I was just throwing it out as an example). 

To frame it another way, one common framework for assessing chapters is asking "what changed from start to finish?" Here, it's the fact that S is going to choose death, which is entirely the work of BK since we know how S will act and Ir isn't able to change her mind at all. Not that she should be able to change S' mind easily, which means that the story has reached a bit of a tight spot. Personally, I think the story should stick to its guns. BK makes sense and S makes sense here. Ir couldn't persuade S to stop before, and she shouldn't be able to now. But something should change for Ir here. Her sister's about to be executed, and she needs to come up with a plan for preventing this from happening. To do so, she needs to navigate both S' stubbornness and assess how much she can get away with bending BK's rules. Ir is the only major character who has the name magic power, and is the only major character with real personal connections on both sides of the conflict here. Despite this, she's leveraged neither attribute to get what she wants, and has mostly been working for BK's side with no plans or ambitions of her own. If she's going to be the real protagonist of this story, I don't think that's going to cut it. 

I think the story is really on the verge of something great here. Hopefully this helps! 

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21 hours ago, ginger_reckoning said:

Pg 2 “had it not been for the cougar” so did the cougar remind her to bow?

My interpretation was that the cougar bowing reminded her to bow, but I don't think this was actually spelled out. 

On 1/11/2021 at 11:00 AM, Mandamon said:

--I feel like there's a disconnect through the whole book with how TBK acts and how everyone perceives him. Pretty much every response has been reasonable for a person in a position of extreme authority, even lenient. Yet everyone expects his next action to be iron-handed and cruel. Is there a reason why?

This wasn't something I focused on, but since it's brought up I do agree. 

Hmm reading over everyone else's commends and looks like I'm in the minority for thinking this chapter needs a lot of work. I'm guessing that means I'm reading the story for something different than everyone else is right now. My best guess is that the motion in Ir that other people are seeing and I'm missing is the lasting consequences her conversation with S has on the larger family dynamic, while I was focused on how she was acting within the political system. For people like me, I think being more explicit (though cautiously so as to not be heavy-handed) about how Ir's and S's dynamics here connect to Ir's motivations and family could point me in the right direction as to what I should be focusing on here.

...And I do still think she should be making her own plans instead of throwing her lot in with BK but I guess I have to recognize that I'm just one voice out of many here. :) 

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Overall

Good emotions, good movement, nice to see I driving the plot. TBK remains a generally decent being. There were some logic areas, noted below, that threw me, but generally I liked this chapter a lot!

 

On 1/11/2021 at 8:00 AM, Mandamon said:

I feel like there's a disconnect through the whole book with how TBK acts and how everyone perceives him. Pretty much every response has been reasonable for a person in a position of extreme authority, even lenient. Yet everyone expects his next action to be iron-handed and cruel. Is there a reason why?

Same question. He acts very honorably so why do people hate him? Why doesn't I trust him?

On 1/11/2021 at 8:00 AM, Mandamon said:

I think these reactions are really good. Four years ago, I might have said they were unreasonable, but the amount of gaslighting S is doing to Ir. is unfortunately consistent with a lot of families I've seen. I think we've learned lately just how much people are willing to delude themselves and ignore evidence in front of their faces.
The only corollary to this I have is that it's going to have a big effect on Ir. and her family in later books. S has committed herself, and I wouldn't want to see this brought down later in the story, like S suddenly "sees the light" and decides to be rational.
I think bulking up the revolutionaries' story near the beginning could also give a better reason for why S started on this path, despite how it ended up. Would make this even more powerful.

I thought about this too, but some of the news stories of late highlighted how some of the men who stormed the capital said goodbye to their families and didn't expect to come home. But some women were SHOCKED they got tear gassed. So maybe S's reaction is in fact very spot on. I'd still like I to like hard core call her on it.

 

As I go

- awww, newborn puppies

- pg 3: releasing the bodies to the families is yet another nice thing TBK has done, further cementing that I don't think he is a villain at all

- pg 3: More honorable than she would have expected from him.  <-- why? He is routinely a pretty decent guy

- pg 4: I'm 100% on team TBK. He remains completely reasonable and I remains completely Unreasonable in her thoughts about him

- pg 8: You can’t choose execution—” <-- how does she know what the options are or that I got her a deal? Something missing here in the timeline it feels like. Also I think this could be a lot stronger if I got to lay out the deal and THEN S was like I don't want a deal from YOU!

- pg 8: SORRY WON’T BRING <-- this is weird to me. They went into this to overthrow a government. Of course there would be casualties so this anger seems misplaced. T went in willing, as did S. So I think her anger is better spent on WHY DID YOU BETRAY THE FAMILY and then S can wax a bit on T's heroic death. And I can be shocked by the callousness of it since she is shocked by everything

- pg 9: I won’t have what happened to T happen to them <--- then don't have them attack the seat of governance

- Ah, I calls her on it a bit but doesn't double down. This could be a great moment to see I actually loose some of that naivety and call her sister on her crap

 

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9 hours ago, kais said:
On 11/01/2021 at 4:00 PM, Mandamon said:

I think these reactions are really good. Four years ago, I might have said they were unreasonable, but the amount of gaslighting S is doing to Ir. is unfortunately consistent with a lot of families I've seen. I think we've learned lately just how much people are willing to delude themselves and ignore evidence in front of their faces.
The only corollary to this I have is that it's going to have a big effect on Ir. and her family in later books. S has committed herself, and I wouldn't want to see this brought down later in the story, like S suddenly "sees the light" and decides to be rational.
I think bulking up the revolutionaries' story near the beginning could also give a better reason for why S started on this path, despite how it ended up. Would make this even more powerful.

I thought about this too, but some of the news stories of late highlighted how some of the men who stormed the capital said goodbye to their families and didn't expect to come home. But some women were SHOCKED they got tear gassed. So maybe S's reaction is in fact very spot on. I'd still like I to like hard core call her on it.

Great comments here, and I agree with a lot of this. I'd still like to see the revolutionaries get close to killing the BK. Like, a crossbow bolt winging him, getting him in the shoulder, something like that. And also, as noted here, I'd like to see the revolutionaries building towards their attack, for example just a handful if little vignette paragraphs here and there of some Rev who is a crack shot with a crossbow. Maybe the Revs have even hired them in or something. Doesn't need to add a whole lot of words, or even another character because they could be quite anonymous. Something to really ramp up that tension at the end.

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Thank you everyone!!!

On 1/11/2021 at 8:00 AM, Mandamon said:

The only corollary to this I have is that it's going to have a big effect on Ir. and her family in later books. S has committed herself, and I wouldn't want to see this brought down later in the story, like S suddenly "sees the light" and decides to be rational.

Spoiler

I plan for this to have lasting percussions throughout the next two books. I know approximately where I want to bring S back in and if anything her time in the mines will unhinge her further. She'll never be a rational person, incredibly passionate and emotional. Much like the Fey, in some regards. I'm not 100% sure where I want to take her character yet as I've kind of destroyed my outlines for Book 2 and 3 in revising the plot for this book so much. The initial stories I had planned were...weak, with Ir being terrifyingly passive. Obviously that can't stand. S, as a sister, knows better than anyone what Ir cares about. If there was anyone who could really push Ir over the edge into making some dark grey/black level moral choices, it would be S. Which is a very interesting option I have, although I don't necessarily want to go to sororcide. 

 

On 1/11/2021 at 9:01 AM, Robinski said:

I think it's a case of being all over that and ensuring the reader still feels there is a satisfying and weighty conclusion to be had in these final pages.

Agreed. I worry that I've got a tension drop in the last four chapters, and so I'm eager to see how much of it I've managed to rectify and how much I still drop the ball.

On 1/11/2021 at 10:44 AM, C_Vallion said:

I don’t know if it’s just jumping in late, but I haven’t seen any sign of him being dishonorable.  There’ve been a few instances of him considering putting Ir’s abilities for mysterious use that I don’t fully get (Chapter 33, I think?), but overall, he’s seemed honorable and considerate. I mean. I get being upset that he took over where you live, but he doesn’t seem like any sort of tyrant.

You aren't late. I have incorrectly set up the BK three times now. It's something I'm continually warring with. 

On 1/11/2021 at 5:51 PM, shatteredsmooth said:

S really is beyond a point of no return here, and there would have to be something equally traumatic to bring S back to I in a convincing way.

Frankly, I don't think I'm talented to pull off a Zuko-level redemption, which is I think the only way to spin her back to the "light side." 

On 1/11/2021 at 8:48 PM, ginger_reckoning said:

I don't have much to say about it other than my lbl's.

And thank you for your LBL's! I need all I can to get all the wrinkles ironed out. 

On 1/12/2021 at 3:29 PM, Sarah B said:

The kind where I don't want to read it but I HAVE to read it :-)

This was me writing it, honestly. This chapter hurt so much to write. 

On 1/12/2021 at 6:45 PM, Ace of Hearts said:

Despite this, she's leveraged neither attribute to get what she wants, and has mostly been working for BK's side with no plans or ambitions of her own. If she's going to be the real protagonist of this story, I don't think that's going to cut it. 

It doesn't cut it, at all. Ir is terribly passive, which is something I am trying to fix. I want the BK reacting to her, not the other way around.

On 1/13/2021 at 4:38 PM, kais said:

There were some logic areas, noted below, that threw me

gasp Logic, in this draft? Whaaaaaaat?

On 1/14/2021 at 2:20 AM, Robinski said:
On 1/13/2021 at 4:38 PM, kais said:
On 1/11/2021 at 8:00 AM, Mandamon said:

I think these reactions are really good. Four years ago, I might have said they were unreasonable, but the amount of gaslighting S is doing to Ir. is unfortunately consistent with a lot of families I've seen. I think we've learned lately just how much people are willing to delude themselves and ignore evidence in front of their faces.
The only corollary to this I have is that it's going to have a big effect on Ir. and her family in later books. S has committed herself, and I wouldn't want to see this brought down later in the story, like S suddenly "sees the light" and decides to be rational.
I think bulking up the revolutionaries' story near the beginning could also give a better reason for why S started on this path, despite how it ended up. Would make this even more powerful.

I thought about this too, but some of the news stories of late highlighted how some of the men who stormed the capital said goodbye to their families and didn't expect to come home. But some women were SHOCKED they got tear gassed. So maybe S's reaction is in fact very spot on. I'd still like I to like hard core call her on it.

Great comments here, and I agree with a lot of this. I'd still like to see the revolutionaries get close to killing the BK. Like, a crossbow bolt winging him, getting him in the shoulder, something like that. And also, as noted here, I'd like to see the revolutionaries building towards their attack, for example just a handful if little vignette paragraphs here and there of some Rev who is a crack shot with a crossbow. Maybe the Revs have even hired them in or something. Doesn't need to add a whole lot of words, or even another character because they could be quite anonymous. Something to really ramp up that tension at the end.

It really is weird how well timed this chapter was with current events. It's also kind of uncomfortable how...not necessarily spot on, but right I got S's thinking compared to the extremists out there today. Especially how little this scene has changed since I wrote it in 2019, before I had such experiences with rioting and such. I think I can really look back and see how I can stabilize S's character with my own experiences this year.

The Revolutionaries are absolutely getting pumped up straight from chapter one. They are going to be a force to reckoned with. I want the reader to feel fear for both the BK and for the city from these insurgents. Thankfully, I have some prime examples to pull from last and this year. 

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