1.11.21 ginger_reckoning EK ch 3+4 2493 (VL)

[Silk]

Overall: I’m still really struggling with feeling like the main characters don’t actually know what they’re doing. Their original plan that T laid out really does not really convince me that their plan to take over the government would actually work. Also, I don’t have any sense of how they planned to to administrate the existing governmental structure for the next 30 days, or a new one afterwards for that matter. I think it would be one thing for them to realize they’re in over their heads, but I’m not sure if that’s the direction you’re going- if so, the character seem blissfully unaware of it.

I also would have liked to see a little more forward motion by the end of the chapter. Ek has given her speech and inadvertently changed everything, which is a great way to keep leading us forwards, but then the characters spend the rest of the chapter talking about the old plan that will no longer work rather than working to formulate a new one that will.

As I read:

“So she knew the correct technique to ‘swim’ through the air.” Not a rhetorical question; I don’t know this offhand. So… does this actually work? I had the impression you actually had to have something to push off of or you just couldn’t get anywhere period.

“She felt nauseous to be perpetuating the evils of the D in this way…” Wasn’t that exactly the plan?

“...one blunder after another?” What were the other blunders?

Ek keeps referencing G, often enough that I think I’d like to have a bit more information about this other character. Aside from the role G apparently played in the Resistance, it seems she was very important to Ek personally, but I don’t know how.

While I sort of get Ek latching onto L N, since she saw L N after using the GT, wouldn’t passing this message on to the commander be, you know, entirely appropriate?

“She had revealed ... to the entire galaxy.” There was a battle in the first couple of chapters involving multiple ships as well as people taking the space station where the ruler of the galaxy lived. I really don’t understand how the group’s existence could possibly be considered secret at this point.

“She had seemed like such a perfect choice… competent, confident…” This is not really the impression I’ve gotten from Ek so far – neither from her own perspective nor from the way Gy treats her.

On 1/11/2021 at 7:54 AM, Robinski said:

"far, far out of her league here" - Where?

I didn't feel the same confusion with this scene that it seems some of the others did, but this particular comment definitely struck me as off - it felt almost a little too off-hand, as if the character had a much greater understanding what was happening than I suspect she (or we, the readers) actually did.

On 1/11/2021 at 7:54 AM, Robinski said:

- I like the line about currency and getting paid: smart and snappy.

Yes! I meant to comment on this. It was a great line.

On 1/11/2021 at 1:56 PM, ginger_reckoning said:

Hmmm yes this is important. I will rework this to make G more assertive, I think. 

Oh, yeah, this would help. He's much too deferential to her. I had sort of put it down to him being military and her possibly not, which would put her outside his direct chain of command, but still.

On 1/11/2021 at 1:56 PM, ginger_reckoning said:

oppurtunistic ones

Hah! Okay, fair enough, but yeah, these folks so far have not really been presented as an "ends justify the means" type of crowd - certainly not Ek. The others could potentially be more so, but we're so far not seeing it on screen, either in the way they operate or in tension between the characters.

On 1/11/2021 at 6:39 PM, Snakenaps said:

The Forgotten Beginning (new band name, who dis?):

On 1/11/2021 at 6:39 PM, Snakenaps said:

Pg 5, "now it was her job to put it all out" It sounds like we've changed POV's?

Yeah, the POV change wasn't obvious (to me) until a paragraph or so in.

On 1/11/2021 at 6:57 PM, Ace of Hearts said:

In particular, in chapter 3 we get what looks to me like the inciting incident with E revealing that the emperor is dead and everyone not taking it super well.

Worth noting that I pegged this as the inciting incident as well, much more so than actually killing A.

On 1/12/2021 at 1:15 PM, shatteredsmooth said:

She didn't really try to learn anything about them and jumped right to wanting to go home.

Yeah, this is a a fair cop. I still have all kinds of questions about the GT and why Ek can just ... use it. Watching her attempt to ferret out some information (which was her original goal!) would have been helpful - especially since the implications of the scene seem, even with limited knowledge of the world, pretty consequential.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Silk

[ginger_reckoning]

9 hours ago, Silk said:

Not a rhetorical question; I don’t know this offhand. So… does this actually work? I had the impression you actually had to have something to push off of or you just couldn’t get anywhere period.

Thank you for all your critiques @Silk! They were all very helpful. In answer to your question, (and I think others asked this) from what I've researched, yes you can swim through the air. It is a fluid, and while it is much much less viscous than water, you can still propel yourself. So it would be slower than swimming in water, but you could do it. (After all, that's basically what a bird or bug is doing when it flies) If you were in a vacuum, though, you would not be able to do this because there would be no air molecules to push off of. 

9 hours ago, Silk said:

I think it would be one thing for them to realize they’re in over their heads, but I’m not sure if that’s the direction you’re going- if so, the character seem blissfully unaware of it.

I think this has been one of the main problems with the sub so far. I do actually want them to seem like they are in over their heads, and maybe have people question how they even overthrew the emporer in the first place, (especially Ek) but it seems to bee a bit too off-putting as it is. Would it work better if I lamp-shaded it more? 

[Silk]

42 minutes ago, ginger_reckoning said:

So it would be slower than swimming in water, but you could do it. (After all, that's basically what a bird or bug is doing when it flies) If you were in a vacuum, though, you would not be able to do this because there would be no air molecules to push off of. 

Ah, okay, good to know!

42 minutes ago, ginger_reckoning said:

Would it work better if I lamp-shaded it more? 

Yes, I think so. I either need to be confident that they're competent enough to get where they are, or confident that they're supposed to not know what they're doing. Having the characters grapple with the fact that they're in over their heads, or their actions have consequences they don't understand, etc., would go along way towards establishing that confidence. Potentially, having something that makes it clear that they only took the A down in a stroke of luck/because A himself was somewhat incompetent, or hinting that there's something else going on that could help if that's the case.

I think one of the other things that's making it hard for me to swallow that the character don't know what they're doing on purpose was the apparent relative size of the operation as presented in the fist couple of chapters. It made it sound like this is a pretty large group with multiple ships, etc. which doesn't necessarily suggest a lack of competence. Continuing to lead into the "revolution by committee" would help here, though, I think.