James Brafin Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Illwei said: Can't keep up with my god-tier reads B). Okaay. I am definitely not about to look back through all my posts for my reasoning. I have said it. I even said it in that post that you quoted when you said "there's nothing here" which makes me think you didn't read it. - He's pushing his opinions, even though they're controversial and what started all of this. something I don't see Elim!Danex doing, being self aware enough to know he has controversial opinions, and always gets attacked for them. - EoD2 he was A-Okay with being tied with striker. just read through that. that would have guaranteed at least one Elim death if they were both Elims. Other things but they're all small. but what isn't? What do you want me to be able to say: I can see his Role PM? But I have given reasons, and I've given them over and over again. Since when did this become "ours", James? In last EoD you were against killing Danex too. you're making no sense here whatsoever. I- Well, okay. Yes and no In this case, you (in the general, but right now @james apparently), with the rest of 'em, are mistakenly attacking Danex. there's not much else we can do, except counter those points. I countered your points. you can't turn around and then say "no u". You're making the argument and I showed you why I think you're wrong. come up with new points instead of throwing the same ones back at me. Okay, I was responding to Dannex, but I'll get back to that thought. The first point you've made I assume is actually NAI. By being self-aware of it, it's not a tell, as he can do it as town or elim. So I don't think that argument holds much water. The second point, however, is excellent, and not something I had considered. With what we know about alignments now, the chances of Dannex and Striker being buddies is very, very poor. That's great reasoning now for why Dannex should be considered town. It's not great reasoning for before D2, but it definitely is helpful for other reasons. Edit: Oh, and in terms of ours: I mean ours, as in the players, as in "several of us, including myself, have brought forth points against Dannex." that group of people, specifically, not the people who think Dannex might be town or Elim. Edit 2: To Dannex: 29 minutes ago, Dannex said: Burden of proof logical fallacy. You’re making the claim that I’m Elim, burden of proof falls on you. Also, Burnt. Because I doubt there’s another Brown, and I know I’m village, and I doubt both Browns are vil. One: I made no such claim this day, if you'll notice. I have reasons other than suspecting you as being Elim for this line of reasoning. Two: This is a bastardization of the Burden of Proof argument; I won't get deep into the debate here, but what it essentially boils down to is that we are starting at a preassumption of the null state here (i.e. Dannex is town) and that people who disagree need to provide evidence to the contrary. However. In debate, you shouldn't start with a preassumed null state. We should be starting with the null state that we don't know your alignment, and each side should be providing evidence to why we can successfully know your alignment. In other words, Dice is making the claim that you are Town; then he is under the burden of proof to provide evidence for this, just as I am to provide it for my views. That's what I'm looking for here. Three.: After some setup parsing, I'm somewhat confident it's possible that the village has two brown. However, I can not share this with you at this time, but hope to share it later -- plus I need to do more parsing on the subject. Edited January 16, 2021 by James Brafin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 59 minutes ago, James Brafin said: You haven't given us a bunch of reasons for why he's not Elim though, you've just discredited ours, which is fallacious. You're right in that Not elim = town, but evidence for not elim =/= evidence for town. You need to provide some sort of reason that Dannex might be town. You and Illwei keep telling us you read him as village -- but I don't think either of you have ever given us a single reason why. Edit: Another thought: If y'all are so sure he's town, you in particular are awfully ready and eager to just sheep town and shrek him. One minute the striker thing was "too much a red flag," the next it's "not overwhelming." So which is it? First: I still can't wrap my head around the bolded part. It seems to me that evidence for not elim is evidence for vil and vice versa, but that's our differences and we won't get anywhere arguing it back and forth. Second, replying to the edit: I got no defense to that, except to say that, respective of when they were posted, both. At the time I said it was too much of a red flag, that was what I thought. Then I left, thought about it, came back, read Illwei's post, realized why I read Dannex as vil the whole game in the first place, and changed my mind. 43 minutes ago, James Brafin said: Dice is making the claim that you are Town; then he is under the burden of proof to provide evidence for this, just as I am to provide it for my views. That's what I'm looking for here. And my evidence is showing Illwei's pointing out the contradictions of evil Dannex and why that doesn't make sense. But those arguments don't fly if you think evidence for not elim =/= evidence for vil. Quote - EoD2 he was A-Okay with being tied with striker. just read through that. that would have guaranteed at least one Elim death if they were both Elims. Yeahhhh this is a very good point right here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnt Spaghetti Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 So uh what do we do with role scans. I scanned matrim as suggested by James before sleeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, Burnt Spaghetti said: So uh what do we do with role scans. I scanned matrim as suggested by James before sleeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Breaker Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Matrim. Would you hate your role being revealed? If you’re not super opposed, then burnt revealing is a confirm ID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Breaker said: Matrim. Would you hate your role being revealed? If you’re not super opposed, then burnt revealing is a confirm ID I personally don't doubt Burnt's ID if she's ready to reveal cause revealing a false role is kinda dumb. It's not like it'll come as a big shocker to anyone, I don't think. Not to anyone who's been paying attention. So if people really want to hard-confirm Burnt's role (which again I don't find necessary) then go for it. Edit: If Burnt/Lotus (or one of) is an elim, then the elims already know anyway. And I find that likely, so I mean. Sure. Edited January 16, 2021 by Matrim's Dice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessential Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said: First: I still can't wrap my head around the bolded part. It seems to me that evidence for not elim is evidence for vil and vice versa, but that's our differences and we won't get anywhere arguing it back and forth. I think what was meant was actually "not having evidence for elim" is not the same thing as "having evidence for town", which was the state of affairs when that post was made iirc. I've been... kinda following along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Ajah Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Sorry I didn't post last cycle, I have been watching the thread. My suspicion of James has been cleared up with PMs. Other than that my reads stay the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, The Unknown Order said: My suspicion of James has been cleared up with PMs Interesting, as you only can have PMs with one person. Or well I guess more than one, but I doubt there are double Warders tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnt Spaghetti Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said: I personally don't doubt Burnt's ID if she's ready to reveal cause revealing a false role is kinda dumb. It's not like it'll come as a big shocker to anyone, I don't think. Not to anyone who's been paying attention. So if people really want to hard-confirm Burnt's role (which again I don't find necessary) then go for it. Edit: If Burnt/Lotus (or one of) is an elim, then the elims already know anyway. And I find that likely, so I mean. Sure. I like matrim. But they not best warder. That's lotus. But they probably a decent warder I think. How would you rate yourself as far as warder greatness? Imma be busy for a few hours Bai! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Ajah Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, Matrim's Dice said: Interesting, as you only can have PMs with one person. Or well I guess more than one, but I doubt there are double Warders tbh. Due to the rules there likely will be, but my PM partner explained why my suspicion was unwarranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Brafin Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said: I think what was meant was actually "not having evidence for elim" is not the same thing as "having evidence for town", which was the state of affairs when that post was made iirc. I've been... kinda following along. That's pretty much right on the money. It comes back to the bit about burden of proof I was at earlier -- you're starting at an assumption that Dannex is Town, which is something you shouldn't do in that situation. it's not enough to simply refute arguments -- you must then provide arguments of your own. In essence, it's the burden of proof fallacy, reversed; Dice is making the claim that Dannex is town; Now prove it. And the answer can't be, "Well, there's no evidence that he's Elim, so he's town!" Because that doesn't offer any evidence to the fact he is Town -- the very thing that you require for your argument. (To be clear, with Illwei's post, I'm now finally and thoroughly convinced he's town. I am not trying to prove he's Elim. That's not the point of this. Don't @ me.) Judging by my parsing, I'm pretty sure Dice is about to be confirmed Warder, or there's a possibility of Red as well I think. That's moot. p-edit: Well, there's no use hiding now. Hi, Order and I have a PM. We are bonded. How and why will come later. Burnt, are you going to do Illwei as well? My latest guess for her is Grey or Blue, leaning Blue based on the Order of Actions bit. 3 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said: Due to the rules there likely will be, but my PM partner explained why my suspicion was unwarranted. I'm still not sure why you ever suspected me in the first place. In fact, now I suspect you as I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I didn't want it outed that we were bonded. Edited January 16, 2021 by James Brafin No doubleposting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Breaker Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Hey, you can come to the dance with us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--- Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) I WAS WRITING A POST FOR THE PAST HOUR AND IT JUST DISAPPEARED WHO CAN I SHOOT [shoot] TJ [/shoot] Edited January 17, 2021 by Illwei I didn't even leave the page ;-; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Brafin Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 I don't dance. I'm awkward and clumsy and never know what to do with my anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnt Spaghetti Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, James Brafin said: Judging by my parsing, I'm pretty sure Dice is about to be confirmed Warder, or there's a possibility of Red as well I think. That's moot. p-edit: Well, there's no use hiding now. Hi, Order and I have a PM. We are bonded. How and why will come later. Burnt, are you going to do Illwei as well? My latest guess for her is Grey or Blue, leaning Blue based on the Order of Actions bit. I'm considering it. It could have relevence. She's not a warder. Illwei? It okay to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Breaker Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 I say you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Brafin Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Just now, Illwei said: I WAS WRITING A POST FOR THE PAST HOUR AND IT JUST DISAPPEARED WHO CAN I SHOOT Oop, Illwei outs as the second green (Also that sucks. Sorry that you lost your post.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--- Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) Just now, Burnt Spaghetti said: I'm considering it. It could have relevence. She's not a warder. Illwei? It okay to say? No ty not yet ;-; Also still working on rewriting it just letting yall know that I am rushing and probably will be less understand Edited January 17, 2021 by Illwei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, Burnt Spaghetti said: But they not best warder. That's lotus. But they probably a decent warder I think. How would you rate yourself as far as warder greatness? 2 minutes ago, Illwei said: I WAS WRITING A POST FOR THE PAST HOUR AND IT JUST DISAPPEARED WHO CAN I SHOOT [shoot] TJ [/shoot] Oof that sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnt Spaghetti Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Just now, Illwei said: No ty not yet ;-; But! Oke. But like. People try to seriously kill me or you and I spill ye? Roles made public is a scary thing tho so can respect that. Specially this early. I'll think. Just a warning though. I may say it anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Breaker Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, James Brafin said: Oop, Illwei outs as the second green (Also that sucks. Sorry that you lost your post.) Sorry, but your line is “not a chance, no!” we’re currently singing a duet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Brafin Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Breaker said: Sorry, but your line is “not a chance, no!” we’re currently singing a duet. The only duet you'll hear from me is to Elims: "Duet. Hit me. I don't fear death." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessential Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, James Brafin said: (To be clear, with Illwei's post, I'm now finally and thoroughly convinced he's town. I am not trying to prove he's Elim. That's not the point of this. Don't @ me.) I... I'm sorry, I must have missed Illwei's post. Could you link to it or summarize it or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--- Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, James Brafin said: The only duet you'll hear from me is to Elims: "Duet. Hit me. I don't fear death." Warder be like "hit me baby one more time" Edited January 17, 2021 by Illwei 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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