Religion in SA

[Daycrow]

I bet this has been brought up before, but I'm clearly new so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Starting my first reread of the full series on my 1-year anniversary of reading WOK (note: because of poor memory some of this might be wrong), and only a couple chapters in I've noticed that Shallan used to be much more religious. However, with the whole business of Dalinar, "Honor is dead," the Stormfather, etc, Vorinism took a big hit. Do we ever see Shallan reflect on this? Does she even consider herself religious anymore, or has it been overshadowed by her identity crises?

Basically, I feel like maybe that's an aspect of her character that has been written out/ignored in favor of more plot-relevant things. I would like to see more of the impact that the changing world has had on religious people in Roshar in general... Though I like the large-scale plots of the later two books, it feels like we're missing out on details that made Roshar feel more real. 

(If this has been mentioned, then disregard this post lol)

Edited January 6, 2021 by Daycrow

[yulyulk]

I just finished a TWoK reread and it felt kind of funny how hard Sanderson worked to establish the Vorinism worldbuilding and a few books later none of it seems to matter. For what it's worth, I don't think Shallan really thinks much about religion nowadays, but Navani does still burn glyphwards as prayers.

[Frustration]

On 1/6/2021 at 5:33 PM, yulyulk said:

I just finished a TWoK reread and it felt kind of funny how hard Sanderson worked to establish the Vorinism worldbuilding and a few books later none of it seems to matter. For what it's worth, I don't think Shallan really thinks much about religion nowadays, but Navani does still burn glyphwards as prayers.

Well, you have to remember that was 10 years ago.

[AquaRegia]

On 1/6/2021 at 7:33 PM, yulyulk said:

I just finished a TWoK reread and it felt kind of funny how hard Sanderson worked to establish the Vorinism worldbuilding and a few books later none of it seems to matter.

Had not thought about that... but it's very true. 

We don't know much about the "regular people", but the main characters seem almost superhuman in their ability to absorb world-shaking revelations about how everything they ever believed is wrong, then just go right on being heroes like nothing has happened.

In Shallan's case specifically, I had the impression through WoK and WoR that she had been greatly influenced by Jasnah's example of thoughtful, graceful, open-minded atheism.  Not to the point that she was "converting" to heresy or abandoning her faith, but that she saw another path, one she had never envisioned, that could allow a woman to become more than traditional Vorinism would.  I think she's in the process of changing, but under the surface.  Also, in her defense, the whole "becoming a Knight Radiant" thing, PLUS working through severe childhood trauma and the resulting dissociative disorder?  Either of those would provide more than enough reason to put religious soul-searching on the back burner, as it were, for a while.

I do really like how Brandon is clear about his desire to use his fiction to explore how religion shapes both individuals and cultures.  The origins, structure, and stunning variety of religious beliefs we see - especially on Roshar and Scadrial - is somehow both awe-inspiring and authentic-feeling to me.  It's been an important feature in all the Cosmere works so far, and while I agree it seems to have receded a bit in RoW, I'm confident it will become central again in future novels.

[yulyulk]

19 minutes ago, AquaRegia said:

Had not thought about that... but it's very true. 

We don't know much about the "regular people", but the main characters seem almost superhuman in their ability to absorb world-shaking revelations about how everything they ever believed is wrong, then just go right on being heroes like nothing has happened.

In Shallan's case specifically, I had the impression through WoK and WoR that she had been greatly influenced by Jasnah's example of thoughtful, graceful, open-minded atheism.  Not to the point that she was "converting" to heresy or abandoning her faith, but that she saw another path, one she had never envisioned, that could allow a woman to become more than traditional Vorinism would.  I think she's in the process of changing, but under the surface.  Also, in her defense, the whole "becoming a Knight Radiant" thing, PLUS working through severe childhood trauma and the resulting dissociative disorder?  Either of those would provide more than enough reason to put religious soul-searching on the back burner, as it were, for a while.

I do really like how Brandon is clear about his desire to use his fiction to explore how religion shapes both individuals and cultures.  The origins, structure, and stunning variety of religious beliefs we see - especially on Roshar and Scadrial - is somehow both awe-inspiring and authentic-feeling to me.  It's been an important feature in all the Cosmere works so far, and while I agree it seems to have receded a bit in RoW, I'm confident it will become central again in future novels.

You know, Shallan in WoR and OB actually seemed fairly close-minded to me at some points. When Tyn tells her about the eye drops to change light eyes to dark, Shallan considers a darkeyes masquerading as a lighteyes and is disturbed. She's also pretty repulsed by Renarin's tendency to mumble to himself, and frightened by predicting the future. This is uncharitable, perhaps, but the main lesson she seems to have learned from Jasnah is that if you're an upper class lady and you boss other people around, they usually don't object (at least not outwardly). 

To some extent, I liked that RoW took place mostly in Urithiru because all of the characters in there interest me greatly. But they're also quite isolated from the real world, and we got less of the cultural richness of Roshar than in previous books. But I'm also hoping that will change in the future, especially as we are going to Shinovar (!!!!!!!) next.

 

9 hours ago, Frustration said:

Well, you have to remember that was 10 years ago.

But in world, it was only 2-3 years ago. I'm not sure I understand your point.

[Frustration]

13 minutes ago, yulyulk said:

But in world, it was only 2-3 years ago. I'm not sure I understand your point.

I'm saying that it's been ten years, Brandon isn't likely to remember everything he had planned a decade ago, even if he does reread it.

[I Just Shard Myself!]

On 1/7/2021 at 4:33 AM, yulyulk said:

I just finished a TWoK reread and it felt kind of funny how hard Sanderson worked to establish the Vorinism worldbuilding and a few books later none of it seems to matter. For what it's worth, I don't think Shallan really thinks much about religion nowadays, but Navani does still burn glyphwards as prayers.

To be fair, they have now personally encountered religious figures from Vorinism worship (Heralds), Dalinar has spoken directly to what’s left of God and the current ‘devil’, and they have Radiants again. Their religion has kind of come to life in front of their eyes. Why pray when you can chat directly with the stormfather, get visions straight from honor and hop on over to a different realm to chat with his kids....assuming they are not perched on your shoulder?

Their religion is kind of defunct due to recent events. Except the safe hand. We still need the safe hand.

[Honorless]

Plenty of people aren't all that devout, they believe in god but don't care all that much for being strict about religious stuff or pondering religious philosophy, they just go about their life. Shallan probably just reflects that.