Debarra

Theory for book 5; The Darkest Timeline

7 posts in this topic

So I recently got back to the forums and saw this thread that gave me an idea for a theory of possibly the darkest possible timeline the contest of Champions could go down.

Using the death rattles as a basis for predicting the future we still have one available to us.

Quote

I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.

To me this appears to be from Dalinar's perspective and that somehow Todium has managed to make Gavinor his champion. Dalinar is conflicted with this choice for obvious reasons. It is at this stage I belief a draw is made between the two until one of them dies. As such Todium is still given free reign on what he can do and the ability continue to interfere directly in war effort.

Quote

 

Victory! We stand atop the mount! We scatter them before us! Their homes become our dens, their lands are now our farms! And they shall burn, as we once did, in a place that is hollow and forlorn. 

Due to overwhleming numbers the fused are at the same moment of the draw being made ordered to attack a variety of central locations to the coalition. With most forces expecting an end to the conflict the coalition is caught off guard and struggle to fight back.

Quote

 

A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears. 

Quote

And all the world was shattered! The rocks trembled with their steps, and the stones reached toward the heavens. We die! We die!

This would also mean as a result that Alethkar itself is not coming back to Dalinar or the rest of the Alethi. (As well as that the deal doesn't prevent Odium from harming the land or its inhabitants before the day of the contest, this could also be showing him destroying the land beforehand.)

Quote

The day was ours, but they took it. Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather!

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Ten orders. We were loved, once. Why have you forsaken us, Almighty! Shard of my soul, where have you gone? 

Obviously as well most people would feel cheated by this and let down by the Knights Radiant for this failure.

Quote

Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us. 

Quote

The death is my life, the strength becomes my weakness, the journey has ended. 

One in particular feels let down. Someone who generally feels themselves as broken in some way. Kaladin, I think this is from his perspective at the end of the contest when it seems a draw.

Quote

So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life... 

Now I also think this is Kaladin's perspective still feeling hopeless. Note however an issue with the quote, "..." This appears to show a gap in the rattle, either the person telling it was surprised to see what comes next or Kaladin himself is surprised by something he realised. It is at this final moment when all seems lost where I think Kaladin will say the final ideal of the Windrunners. The idea that has been repeated very often to us, an issue he had for a good while. Can you kill to protect? I belief the fifth ideal will be something along those lines, a promise to kill in order to protect others. So when faced with the deaths and failure of possibly everyone he knows Kaladin swears the oath and goes to attack Gavinor.

Quote

 

I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done?

They have won the contest (as nobody said that the champion can only be killed by the other champion) but at what cost?

Quote

I'm cold. Mother, I'm cold. Mother? Why can I still hear the rain? Will it stop?

Quote

You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me! While the sun is still hot, I die! 

Both these seem from the perspective of Gavinor while he dies.

So I think this timeline is the darkest possible timeline of events and is hopefully highly unlikely to take place.

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Some of the death rattles show past events. I personally think quite a few of these pertain to Ashyn.

Quote

Victory! We stand atop the mount! We scatter them before us! Their homes become our dens, their lands are now our farms! And they shall burn, as we once did, in a place that is hollow and forlorn. 

This one is the beginning of the first desolation - notice the reference to burning, something that the Voidbringers/humans from Ashyn were described as having "skin that is burned".

Quote

Ten orders. We were loved, once. Why have you forsaken us, Almighty! Shard of my soul, where have you gone? 

I think this is the past, just from the viewpoint of the past Radiants, or maybe from the viewpoint of the Sibling post binding of Ba-Ado-Mishram.

Quote

I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done?

I think this will be the endgame for Moash/Kaladin. Could also be a reference to Tien's death from Kaladin's perspective.

I think you are right that Gavinor will be Odiums champion, or could be a really good candidate for the reasons you outlined. A lot of these deathrattles keep reminding me of that vision with Dalinar that comes, as the world shatters and breaks apart. Also, the knowledge that surgebinding destroyed Ashyn, that Honor was ranting and raving about before he died, that is attributed to his poor ability to connect with fortune. I think Honor was telling the Radiants of the future, where the world was destroyed by surgebinders - something that keeps coming accross in the deathrattles you outline:

Quote

A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears. 

Quote
 

And all the world was shattered! The rocks trembled with their steps, and the stones reached toward the heavens. We die! We die!

Quote

I'm cold. Mother, I'm cold. Mother? Why can I still hear the rain? Will it stop?

Quote

Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us. 

So is this the past, the fate of Ashyn that we won't truly know until the back five? Or is this the future of Roshar? Something that strikes me here is that none of this aligns with Odium's goals, either under Rayse or Taravangian. I think the last quote I did above is tied to Kaladin's fifth ideal coming at the lowest point for Roshar, but the rest could describe Ashyn still.

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Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, Debarra said:

To me this appears to be from Dalinar's perspective and that somehow Todium has managed to make Gavinor his champion.

The contract specifies that the champion must fight willingly. I understood that this implies that the champion knows what is the duel for and that the duel is to the death. I can't imagine Gavinor accepting this in any circumstance. But it could be some young traitor beloved to Dalinar (Renarin?)

Edited by ajotatxe
typo
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Odium's Champion could be Gavilar. Book 5 starts with his viewpoint on the day Szeth 'killed' him. We know that Gavilar was Cosmere aware to a certain extent, and possessed anti-voidlight. There is more to his story than shown up until now. Gavilar being champion would fit the following Death Rattle as well:

Quote

I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done?

Disclaimer: This theory has been gaining traction recently, and is NOT an Original Thought of mine.

Edited by HoidIsAdonalsium
Grammar
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Gavilar returning would be AMAZING. I'm not going to lie. I would absolutely love that as a twist: the person whose death sparked all these events, whose villainy we have been slowly made aware of over the books since his supposed death, returning at the last hour. That would be such a good twist.

Edited by Vissy
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Gavilar is inferior to Danilar in dueling for sure, it's like asking to get spanked

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I like that theory of Odium using Gavinor. Manipulation is an art that Taravangian knows very well, and that little kid has so many traumas that pushing him just a little bit, could make him a good source of paralysis to Dalinar.

Another champion I was thinking about lately is Adolin. I know, he's one of the most noble and cheerful guys in the story, but what if Maya comes back to life and reveals the huge secret that made all of the radiants to suddenly break their oaths? 

What if that revelation is suddenly so strong that Adolin can't handle it and falls under the influence of Odium and becomes the champion?

And what if Dalinar is not able to fight Adolin, and Renarin takes his place? Renarin has done this kind of things before, trying to save his brother, but instead gets killed by Adolin. So now the show gets really crazy... so many plot twists... 

well so many crazy theories...

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