AutumnWell

Theory: Syl and Cultivation

42 posts in this topic

I don’t know about the Kal/Honor part, but it does definitely seem like Cultivation interacted with Syl. We definitely haven’t seen the end of Cultivation’s master plan, and it’s exciting to find out that Syl is involved somehow.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm thinking more and more since RoW that Kal is meant for the Shard of Honor. This is solidifying that opinion.

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There isn't a whole lot of support for anything Cultivation has done or is doing, but I believe Cultivation has a hand in everything, especially concerning spren wanting to bond again.

  • Shallan was bonded as a child by a Cryptic. That Cryptic was killed and another came to bond Shallan. Cryptics are very much of Cultivation (they love lies, which should be mostly antithetical to Honor). Cultivation sending Cryptics to bond specific individuals? Or just Shallan?
  • Stormfather is against bonding humans, yet Syl and other honorspren are defying him in relatively large numbers.
  • There Nightwatcher and the Sibling are other forces equivalent to Stormfather but haven't been active on a broad scale.
  • What other force is around that could and would encourage spren to start bonding humans again after so long? 
    • Odium is a possibility, but he didn't have any power over Roshar and its forces until the Everstorm was unleashed.
    • Honor's power is splintered, mostly locked in the Storm, and Stormfather didn't seem to be encouraging anything.

RoW gave some background as to how Odium freed his power via the Everstorm. This thing was brewing in the Cognitive realm for decades. Wouldn't Cultivation want to make sure there was some counter to it, assuming she couldn't stop it outright (or didn't want to)? All of these forces came together perfectly at the point that the Everstorm was brought in to the Physical realm including Dalinar, Szeth (who could have been encouraged to speak out about Radiants and made Truthless because of Cultivation, and was sent there by Cultivation's creation, Taravangian), Kaladin (bonded to Syl, who could have been kept asleep by Cultivation, encouraged toward Kaladin by the same...Kaladin's brother was bonding with a Cultivation-type spren at the time, as well), Eshonai (bonding a Cultivation-type spren), etc, etc etc

I think there's enough here to say this whole thing was put together by two shards: Odium brought the Everstorm and Cultivation brought everything else.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that Sanderson has been dropping hints of an underlining flaw of Shards. They are all bound and driven by a singular ideal. Odium's conversation with Dalinar highlights this. Odium says, "the power will eventually bind you too." Right now no one is wielding enough of Honor's power to ascend/be bound by the rules of the Shards. And perhaps this was Honor's intent. to split his power so that it can be wielded without binding whoever is using it. The Honor blades are the clearest example of this, Honor's power without oaths. As of right now, Dalinar is able to wield much of Honor's power, only being bound by the oaths of a Radiant Bondsmith, not the rules of a Shard allowing him to interfere directly in events on Roshar. Kaladin is the same way. What Kaladin inherited from Tanavast is unclear at this point. It is safe to say that Kaladin is Stormblessed and known by the winds. What that ultimately means though, we have yet to find out. I'm still convinced that somehow, when Tanavast died, part of his power latched on to Kaladin and maybe some latched onto Syl. Like perhaps she absorbed some of it becoming stronger and more self-aware in the same way that the Stormfather did. The Stormfather absorbed/merged with Honor's cognitive shadow, but Syl and Kaladin getting hit with splinters would explain why they seem stronger than other Windrunners. AND (getting back to your theory) because they have part of Honor's power, Cultivation has an interest in seeing this grow and the splinters be put back together. This would make them demi-shards? Half-Shards?

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kal as an Avatar of Honor is the simplest explanation that I have seen so far on this Forum. Much like in the same way Vyre mentioned some of the Fused believed Moash was becoming an Avatar of Odium.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if.... Syl picks up the Shard of Honor? She is a little piece of Honor, she is intelligent and articulate, and Dalinar is shipping her off to the mad scientist Herald who is looking for more Honorspren for his crazy conversion experiments. I mean, who better than the personification of Honor to pick up Honor? 

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, CosmicSieve said:

What if.... Syl picks up the Shard of Honor? She is a little piece of Honor, she is intelligent and articulate, and Dalinar is shipping her off to the mad scientist Herald who is looking for more Honorspren for his crazy conversion experiments. I mean, who better than the personification of Honor to pick up Honor? 

That would turn Kal into a wacky kind of Bondsmith-Avatar-Windrunner. Storms...

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Lunu’anaki said:

That would turn Kal into a wacky kind of Bondsmith-Avatar-Windrunner. Storms...

I would be sooo down for that.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a big fan of Kal becoming Honor. I get the thinking behind it, but he doesn't seem like the character to accept it. Maybe a temporary holder like Vin...but not end game.

 

Biggest reason is that long term I see the relationship between T and Dalinar evolving, even with the 2 of them being shards.  I don't see Kal being able to play the big games that Cultivation, Dalinar, and T are willing to play. 

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Kitch said:

I'm not a big fan of Kal becoming Honor. I get the thinking behind it, but he doesn't seem like the character to accept it. Maybe a temporary holder like Vin...but not end game.

 

Biggest reason is that long term I see the relationship between T and Dalinar evolving, even with the 2 of them being shards.  I don't see Kal being able to play the big games that Cultivation, Dalinar, and T are willing to play. 

If the choice were up to me, I wouldn't want him to take up the shard of Honor either. But in Words of Radiance, Kaladin mentions this after he gets out of prison post the duel:

Quote

He was free now. He could return to his life as a bodyguard. But one thing . . . one thing had changed.
Nobody will ever, ever, do this to me again.
Not king or general, not brightlord or brightlady.
He would die first.

It would be twisted if Kaladin was forced by Honor to take up the Shard for betterment of Roshar. Bound forever.

Edited by HoidIsAdonalsium
Grammar
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, HoidIsAdonalsium said:

It would be twisted if Kaladin was forced by Honor to take up the Shard for betterment of Roshar. Bound forever.

This is exactly the type of cursed torture Brandon would put Kaladin through. I always thought he would become a new Herald to renew the Oathpact between books 5 and 6... but this... damn. This sounds so much better.

Edited by Lunu’anaki
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree Kaladin might become Honor. He certainly fits much better than Dalinar, who should be ruled out because of his past alone. But even during the events of SA, he has never shown the same honor Kal has. As much as i like Dalinar, there is no way he would ever take the death spot during bridge runs. Or jump into the arena against 4 shardbearers to help someone he doesnt even like (without plate). 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Torol Sadeas said:

I agree Kaladin might become Honor. He certainly fits much better than Dalinar, who should be ruled out because of his past alone. But even during the events of SA, he has never shown the same honor Kal has. As much as i like Dalinar, there is no way he would ever take the death spot during bridge runs. Or jump into the arena against 4 shardbearers to help someone he doesnt even like (without plate). 

Dalinar did give up his blade for a bunch of slaves. And refused to lie to save his position in the coalition. He is certainly not the man he was. I think Dalinar of RoW might take the death spot during a bridge run.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/31/2020 at 9:17 PM, Lunu’anaki said:

That would turn Kal into a wacky kind of Bondsmith-Avatar-Windrunner. Storms...

Syl is already a little piece of Honor. Picking up more would up her power potential, but the Bond would still be controlled by the limits placed on it by Ishar and Tanavast. 

There's a good chance that Syl has "more of Honor" than other spren already, explaining the extra power Kaladin has. But if, say, the power of Honor in Stormfather were given to Syl, Kaladin would still be a Windrunner and still have Windrunner abilities, not Bondsmith abilities.

Kaladin can't be an avatar because there is no Vessel. Honor is still a splintered jumble. Most of it is "held" by Stormfather. If anything, this makes Stormfather the avatar of Honor.

Narratively, it's possible for Dalinar to die and Kaladin to be "chosen" by the splinters of Honor to be the new Vessel. That assumes there's enough collected in one place for it to consider itself a single entity to be picked up by a Vessel. That might take a lot of splinter wrangling for a single book, so it probably wouldn't happen in KoW (book 5).

If Cultivation is the puppet master on the "good guys" side here, there's a good chance that she is planning on putting someone in place to take up Honor in a similar way she put someone in place to take up Odium. The most likely case is one of the other two people she affected directly: Dalinar or Lift. Dalinar is the one with a bond to the largest piece of Honor, so it all depends on whether or not he lives through the Contest.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude we had the same theory, or roughly, 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/31/2020 at 10:17 PM, Kitch said:

I'm not a big fan of Kal becoming Honor. I get the thinking behind it, but he doesn't seem like the character to accept it. Maybe a temporary holder like Vin...but not end game.

 

Biggest reason is that long term I see the relationship between T and Dalinar evolving, even with the 2 of them being shards.  I don't see Kal being able to play the big games that Cultivation, Dalinar, and T are willing to play. 

I always thought kaladin would take jezriens spot. if you look at death rattle bellow. the crown = king is jezrien is fallen title. spear is kaladin. Tower is unknown. tower is to watch over something? 

Quote
"He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!"

 way of kings

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Forms of mind said:

I always thought kaladin would take jezriens spot. if you look at death rattle bellow. the crown = king is jezrien is fallen title. spear is kaladin. Tower is unknown. tower is to watch over something? 

Didn’t we establish that the Tower and the Crown was the Kholinar symbol used by Dalinar?

WoK ch. 28:

Quote

Eventually, they reached his personal complex, marked by fluttering blue banners with the glyphpair khokh and linil, the former drawn in the shape of a tower, the second forming a crown. Dalinar’s mother had drawn the original design, the same his signet ring bore, though Elhokar used a sword and crown instead.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

huh that makes a bit more sense but what is the spear?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Forms of mind said:

huh that makes a bit more sense but what is the spear?

I just assumed it was Kaladin. I may have missed what the fallen title was, though, since I just assumed that meant the title of Radiant. It could refer to far more.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always assumed that Death Rattle referred to the battle at the Tower at the end of TWoK. The crown and the spear are referencing Dalinar and Kaladin. I also assumed the fallen title was probably referring to Kaladin “picking up” the title of Knights Radiant when he swore his ideals at the battle. 

It’s not exactly clear-cut though. It could be referring to something more, like with Jezrien. But the tower/crown/spear combo always directed me to the end of TWoK. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/01/2021 at 1:37 PM, Torol Sadeas said:

who should be ruled out because of his past alone

This sentence is in complete opposition with everything SA stands for

Quote

I agree Kaladin might become Honor. He certainly fits much better than Dalinar, who should be ruled out because of his past alone. But even during the events of SA, he has never shown the same honor Kal has. As much as i like Dalinar, there is no way he would ever take the death spot during bridge runs. Or jump into the arena against 4 shardbearers to help someone he doesnt even like (without plate). 

Dalinar would be a good fit for merging Honour and Odium, Kal would be a good fit for just Honour.

 

A bit of topic but am I the only one who think Adolin would be a good fit for Devotion? Or maybe for the Dor?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/1/2021 at 5:08 AM, HoidIsAdonalsium said:

If the choice were up to me, I wouldn't want him to take up the shard of Honor either. But in Words of Radiance, Kaladin mentions this after he gets out of prison post the duel:

It would be twisted if Kaladin was forced by Honor to take up the Shard for betterment of Roshar. Bound forever.

Ah, another sentence to add to the loooong list of lines which seem to foreshadow Kal taking Jezrien's place, in that it's a simple description of what happens to Heralds: they die, first, before being imprisoned.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, CruelSadist said:

Ah, another sentence to add to the loooong list of lines which seem to foreshadow Kal taking Jezrien's place, in that it's a simple description of what happens to Heralds: they die, first, before being imprisoned.

Jezrien's place?

There is a lot of foreshadowing with Kal, but it's mostly ties to Honor, where did you get Jezrien from?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.