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Making a setting 04 - Choice of Worlds - Magic in the Triarku system – [POLL CLOSED]


Ixthos

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[POLL CLOSED] 

RESULTS:

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This is the magic poll, covering the two magic systems present in the system.

If you haven't already, please vote in the aliens poll. See the link above.

 

A few quick notes:

  • The two magic systems types are hard magic for the poles, and soft magic for the equators, with the system in the poles being commonly taught to anyone who wishes to learn them, so not restricted to having certain bloodlines, etc., but is still limited in that one has to learn it while riding a soul horse in the city, as it makes use of the city to access the source of the magic to gain it, but otherwise one is free to use it once back in the human-scale world. Likewise the ritual magic can be used anywhere, but is extremely dangerous as it involves accessing and manipulating the Outsider's corpses – or, perhaps, being manipulated by them.

  • The two magic systems are intended to be very limited in the setting, powerful but restricted, thus allowing many others to reliably use technology to counter them. One of the ways the abilities are limited is that, if the elemental system is chosen as an example, all members can only use one element, so though they know about other elements, and the soft magic system can use them all, the hard system would only grant access to a single part of what it is associated with.

  • The magic at the poles is seen generally positively by the inhabitants of the poles of the planets, but seen with fear in the equatorial regions where it is almost never seen, with very few inhabitants of the equatorial regions travelling to the poles to learn it. The magic in the equatorial regions is feared by both.

Edited by Ixthos
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Guest Somebody from Scadrial

Just gonna mention, my vote is for words and rituals, with a heavy emphasis on words. Likely similar to rituals being like potions in HP. I would like written words to have some effect (maybe a much weaker version?), and I would like mental words to work to a minimal extent. I'm also opposed to nature magic as the magic of the poles, as it is very ritualistic in my mind. 

For ritualistic stuff, I think focusing on different effects, such as what you drink, what you eat, and, eventually, how much electricity is in your body when doing it.

Words should be English or a made up language: not the traditional Latin. I like some similarity with HP, but not that much.

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8 hours ago, Somebody from Sel said:

Just gonna mention, my vote is for words and rituals, with a heavy emphasis on words. Likely similar to rituals being like potions in HP. I would like written words to have some effect (maybe a much weaker version?), and I would like mental words to work to a minimal extent. I'm also opposed to nature magic as the magic of the poles, as it is very ritualistic in my mind. 

For ritualistic stuff, I think focusing on different effects, such as what you drink, what you eat, and, eventually, how much electricity is in your body when doing it.

Words should be English or a made up language: not the traditional Latin. I like some similarity with HP, but not that much.

For spoken words it mainly is intended to be a unique language, but more in the sense that - if spoken words are used - trying to make sounds that correspond to the resonant frequencies / beats of the different parts of the Outsiders, or are close enough even if in the wrong frequency, but are an integer multiple. Basically trying to match the frequency to allow them to manifest partially. Written words would also be a factor, but lets see how the pole goes. That is if spoke words make it through. Interesting idea for rituals though. I'll definitely consider using that if rituals makes it. When the pole closes I'll also mention, like for Making a Setting 02, how other results could have resulted in different magic.

For the poles, nature magic would be more along the lines of connecting or controlling a part of nature, so weather or animals or plants depending, but as though it were a part of you. So if plants and drawing a property from them it would be in a sense being stronger around plants, sensing plants, and being able to climb or move around them easily, as though the plant were moving you along. Basically it is treating a part of nature either as a limb you can control (control), or as a part of you you can sense with and which lends you strength and speed etc. and responds to you like a friend (link to).

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Guest Somebody from Scadrial
On 12/28/2020 at 1:09 AM, Ixthos said:

For spoken words it mainly is intended to be a unique language, but more in the sense that - if spoken words are used - trying to make sounds that correspond to the resonant frequencies / beats of the different parts of the Outsiders, or are close enough even if in the wrong frequency, but are an integer multiple. Basically trying to match the frequency to allow them to manifest partially. Written words would also be a factor, but lets see how the pole goes. That is if spoke words make it through. Interesting idea for rituals though. I'll definitely consider using that if rituals makes it. When the pole closes I'll also mention, like for Making a Setting 02, how other results could have resulted in different magic.

For the poles, nature magic would be more along the lines of connecting or controlling a part of nature, so weather or animals or plants depending, but as though it were a part of you. So if plants and drawing a property from them it would be in a sense being stronger around plants, sensing plants, and being able to climb or move around them easily, as though the plant were moving you along. Basically it is treating a part of nature either as a limb you can control (control), or as a part of you you can sense with and which lends you strength and speed etc. and responds to you like a friend (link to).

Cool!

I'm going to @ a few people. @Condensation, I'm surprised you haven't joined in already. @Channelknight Fadran, where are you? We need more votes.

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8 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

SPACE MAGIC

I have hundreds of thoughts

Such as? :-P I am already forming an idea of a somewhat abstracted fighting style involving drawing properties from space, including sensory and movement related, and applications of redirecting enemy attacks by changing the distance, but if you have any suggestions I'd be interested in hearing them. Even if they don't make it into this system I am hoping to make another topic later which covers the other possible outcomes of the poll, including possibly linking space and time.

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9 hours ago, Ixthos said:

Such as? :-P I am already forming an idea of a somewhat abstracted fighting style involving drawing properties from space, including sensory and movement related, and applications of redirecting enemy attacks by changing the distance, but if you have any suggestions I'd be interested in hearing them. Even if they don't make it into this system I am hoping to make another topic later which covers the other possible outcomes of the poll, including possibly linking space and time.

Oh.

Nevermind.

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7 minutes ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

Oh.

Nevermind.

...

You tease! :-P

 

Part of the problem is I am trying to keep this setting isolated from the meta setting, and their are certain things that tie into space that potentially could connect it too strongly too early to the meta setting. But then that might actually be helpful, especially with the ideas I have for later stories involving them climbing out from the bottom of the well as it were, and seeing what has been happening in other universes, and the purpose of the colony they were intended to found.

All that is a side issue though. For myself, depending on how far towards linking to vs controlling the poll goes, if space is used there can be some fun things done involving

  1. Distance
  2. Direction, and
  3. Dimension

and affecting sensing and movement. As well as the idea of drawing energy, and the impact of warped space on time.

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1 minute ago, Ixthos said:

...

You tease! :-P

 

Part of the problem is I am trying to keep this setting isolated from the meta setting, and their are certain things that tie into space that potentially could connect it too strongly too early to the meta setting. But then that might actually be helpful, especially with the ideas I have for later stories involving them climbing out from the bottom of the well as it were, and seeing what has been happening in other universes, and the purpose of the colony they were intended to found.

All that is a side issue though. For myself, depending on how far towards linking to vs controlling the poll goes, if space is used there can be some fun things done involving

  1. Distance
  2. Direction, and
  3. Dimension

and affecting sensing and movement. As well as the idea of drawing energy, and the impact of warped space on time.

Okay, so... I've put some thought into techy/sciency/space magics, and... well, they're kinda confusing, but also kinda cool.

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Just now, Channelknight Fadran said:

Okay, so... I've put some thought into techy/sciency/space magics, and... well, they're kinda confusing, but also kinda cool.

Confusing and cool can both be cool :-P Part of the meta setting is about the idea that space, time, and certain other things such as will are actually entire beings - magic and technology at their highest levels work by combining the two, magic that is like technology, technology that is like magic, and a special relationship with the beings involved, especially with their fractal nature. I'm very okay with confusing as long as it still is order. (I'm also planning a series where the events in the second series take place before the first, but the characters are still from the future.) None of that is directly relevant to this story though.

If you feel up to it, you can share as much as you like, and I'll mention if that can work in the framework of the story right here, or if it ties into something related to the meta setting, etc.

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1 minute ago, Ixthos said:

Confusing and cool can both be cool :-P Part of the meta setting is about the idea that space, time, and certain other things such as will are actually entire beings - magic and technology at their highest levels work by combining the two, magic that is like technology, technology that is like magic, and a special relationship with the beings involved, especially with their fractal nature. I'm very okay with confusing as long as it still is order. (I'm also planning a series where the events in the second series take place before the first, but the characters are still from the future.) None of that is directly relevant to this story though.

If you feel up to it, you can share as much as you like, and I'll mention if that can work in the framework of the story right here, or if it ties into something related to the meta setting, etc.

Sure, I... just have no idea how to do that.

I did something with Timespace manipulation, quantum entanglement, and gravitational energy, if you'd like to hear about that.

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Just now, Channelknight Fadran said:

Sure, I... just have no idea how to do that.

I did something with Timespace manipulation, quantum entanglement, and gravitational energy, if you'd like to hear about that.

If you feel up to it, sure :-) though don't share anything you don't feel comfortable with someone potentially using. Its also possible some of what you say is stuff I've already given some thought to, but it also could be that this is entirely new to me and can help define the magic in a new way. (Side note, this also is partially why I'm making this setting more distant from the rest of the meta setting, with the Outsiders and Others being the in-setting name for these beings rather than the meta-setting name for them, as I'm not fully comfortable just putting all my ideas out in the open just yet. I actually felt nervous mentioning how space and time are beings in my setting, not just forces, and that is only a small part of their relationship to one another and their other relatives and the other types of spirits.)

... Also, the magic is intended not to be too over powered, a little like how the Force was presented in A New Hope, and less like The Empire Strikes Back :-P (unless there was a way to nullify telekineses ...)

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Just now, Ixthos said:

If you feel up to it, sure :-) though don't share anything you don't feel comfortable with someone potentially using. Its also possible some of what you say is stuff I've already given some thought to, but it also could be that this is entirely new to me and can help define the magic in a new way. (Side note, this also is partially why I'm making this setting more distant from the rest of the meta setting, with the Outsiders and Others being the in-setting name for these beings rather than the meta-setting name for them, as I'm not fully comfortable just putting all my ideas out in the open just yet. I actually felt nervous mentioning how space and time are beings in my setting, not just forces, and that is only a small part of their relationship to one another and their other relatives and the other types of spirits.)

... Also, the magic is intended not to be too over powered, a little like how the Force was presented in A New Hope, and less like The Empire Strikes Back :-P (unless there was a way to nullify telekineses ...)

Okay, so... I'll just drop it on you and see how you like it.

It works off the premise that the quickest path between point A and point B is a straight line. Anyone who's read "A Wrinkle in Time," though, would know that by bending Timespace, you can make the distance even shorter.

The question remains, however, of what happened to that straight line. Well, it became a parabola. It sank into a curve, still connected between the two points but no longer the quickest way between them. So now there are two paths between Point A and Point B, one of which is shorter than the other.

Now let's send some things along these lines, shall we? Let's send alien spaceships, 'cuz why the scud not?

One alien spaceship reaches Point B first. It's the one that went along the easy path. The second spaceship reaches Point B an hour afterwards. That's kinda how traveling works.

Now, however, let's throw a spin in it. The spin. The Spin Force! Let's say that these two alien spaceships have some sort of engine thingy that contains particles that have been entangled, and now have a spin bond. Using some universal magicky mumbo-jumbo, we have bonded these two spaceships. So when you send them from point A to point B again, they reach at the same time: kind of like a clock hand. Despite the fact that the tip of the hour minute hand is farther away from the center than the bottom of the minute hand, they both reach a 90-degree angle at 12:00 at the same time. That sort of thing.

I'm not entirey sure what to do with this. I'm thinking that, by bonding two particles with Spin and sending them along these paths, they'll meet again at point B and release a crap ton of energy that they gathered from Gravitational forces. In other words, you get power plants by bending spacetime!

I explained that badly. Hope you liked it anyways.

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7 minutes ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

Okay, so... I'll just drop it on you and see how you like it.

It works off the premise that the quickest path between point A and point B is a straight line. Anyone who's read "A Wrinkle in Time," though, would know that by bending Timespace, you can make the distance even shorter.

The question remains, however, of what happened to that straight line. Well, it became a parabola. It sank into a curve, still connected between the two points but no longer the quickest way between them. So now there are two paths between Point A and Point B, one of which is shorter than the other.

Now let's send some things along these lines, shall we? Let's send alien spaceships, 'cuz why the scud not?

One alien spaceship reaches Point B first. It's the one that went along the easy path. The second spaceship reaches Point B an hour afterwards. That's kinda how traveling works.

Now, however, let's throw a spin in it. The spin. The Spin Force! Let's say that these two alien spaceships have some sort of engine thingy that contains particles that have been entangled, and now have a spin bond. Using some universal magicky mumbo-jumbo, we have bonded these two spaceships. So when you send them from point A to point B again, they reach at the same time: kind of like a clock hand. Despite the fact that the tip of the hour minute hand is farther away from the center than the bottom of the minute hand, they both reach a 90-degree angle at 12:00 at the same time. That sort of thing.

I'm not entirey sure what to do with this. I'm thinking that, by bonding two particles with Spin and sending them along these paths, they'll meet again at point B and release a crap ton of energy that they gathered from Gravitational forces. In other words, you get power plants by bending spacetime!

I explained that badly. Hope you liked it anyways.

Very interesting :-) I don't think it will tie into this setting or the meta setting, but if you like we can explore this further here :-)

 

In a sense, if viewed from an outside observer, would you say this is like forming a wormhole, or shortening the distance between the two points in normal space, like how mass can change a seemingly straight line into a bent one? Or do you mean that the warped path is not a longer one, by affecting timespace you've made one path longer, rather than making one path shorter? In either case, this gives the impression that those entangled particles - magicky mumbo-jumbo entangled particles :-P - cause the two objects to always reach the same location at the same time, regardless of the paths they took, so long as one goes through a region of warped timespace - if it didn't require them to go through warped timespace things could get interesting if you attach one to a ferris wheel and the other to a rocket! So that implies the system could be used to allow one to reach any arbitrary speed, even ones much faster than light.

So, as long as the act of warping space doesn't drain energy to produce, one could generate as much energy as you want, especially because - depending on your reference frame - a speed slightly above the speed of light in one inertial reference frame can actually be much faster in another inertial reference frame (assuming the rules of general relativity apply to faster than light speeds). So then, where does the energy come from?

Perhaps ... perhaps from the warped timespace? So this could be a way to extract energy FROM a warped region, so you don't warp the region but find a warped region, and then construct this system around it ... but does that then cause the region to unwarp? And if so, could you do the same to a region of timespace that is warped the other way, one where the path is shorter if normally longer, or longer if normally shorter?

 

This certainly has possibilities :-) I wish you luck in using it. Would you like to discuss it some more? 

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1 minute ago, Ixthos said:

Very interesting :-) I don't think it will tie into this setting or the meta setting, but if you like we can explore this further here :-)

 

In a sense, if viewed from an outside observer, would you say this is like forming a wormhole, or shortening the distance between the two points in normal space, like how mass can change a seemingly straight line into a bent one? Or do you mean that the warped path is not a longer one, by affecting timespace you've made one path longer, rather than making one path shorter? In either case, this gives the impression that those entangled particles - magicky mumbo-jumbo entangled particles :-P - cause the two objects to always reach the same location at the same time, regardless of the paths they took, so long as one goes through a region of warped timespace - if it didn't require them to go through warped timespace things could get interesting if you attach one to a ferris wheel and the other to a rocket! So that implies the system could be used to allow one to reach any arbitrary speed, even ones much faster than light.

So, as long as the act of warping space doesn't drain energy to produce, one could generate as much energy as you want, especially because - depending on your reference frame - a speed slightly above the speed of light in one inertial reference frame can actually be much faster in another inertial reference frame (assuming the rules of general relativity apply to faster than light speeds). So then, where does the energy come from?

Perhaps ... perhaps from the warped timespace? So this could be a way to extract energy FROM a warped region, so you don't warp the region but find a warped region, and then construct this system around it ... but does that then cause the region to unwarp? And if so, could you do the same to a region of timespace that is warped the other way, one where the path is shorter if normally longer, or longer if normally shorter?

 

This certainly has possibilities :-) I wish you luck in using it. Would you like to discuss it some more? 

:blink::blink::blink:

I can assure you that I haven't put nearly that much thought into this. If you'd like to discuss it further, I'd be down to.

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2 minutes ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

:blink::blink::blink:

I can assure you that I haven't put nearly that much thought into this. If you'd like to discuss it further, I'd be down to.

Its all good - we all start with an idea and then work on it from there. Seeing how an idea can unfold isn't always something that happens all at once. I'd be more than happy to do further speculation on this with you, though maybe tomorrow or in a few days :-) (its almost 20:00 here, and I need to do things away from the forum! :-P )

Hope you have a good one!

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Hi everyone :-) Quick reminder, if you voted in this poll please also vote in the Triarku alien poll. I'm going to leave them open for another week, and then close them after opening the solar system poll. Once that poll has been closed I will provide a full summary of the setting - some of which will be spoilers for the planned story and future stories - including the other possible aliens and magic systems that could have developed, though I won't give alternative planets.

You can find the link to the aliens here: 

Hope everyone has a great day or night, or evening, morning :-)

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