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Some chaotic theories regarding Shards, Lights and their respective colors and tones


GeorgiPeev

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5 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Well, Mraize certainly seems to think they can't, and the Fused don't laugh him out of the room for saying it makes Lift special.

Mraize doesn't suggest that Radiants can't use Lifelight. He only states that Lift can't use Stormlight. Lifelight doesn't really exist in gaseous form like Stormlight does. Lift uses it through digestion of food, much like Allomancers burn metals. If Lifelight had an available gaseous form, I would assume there would be some way for Radiants to use it, as WOB says they could use Breaths if they knew how. Ultimately, Investiture is Investiture.

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17 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Well, Mraize certainly seems to think they can't, and the Fused don't laugh him out of the room for saying it makes Lift special.

I think the important thing with her was that she produces Lifelight, not that she can use it. Contextually Mraize is being pretty coy with that statement, to imply that he is "in the know".

Edited by Lunu’anaki
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27 minutes ago, Leuthie said:

Mraize doesn't suggest that Radiants can't use Lifelight. He only states that Lift can't use Stormlight. Lifelight doesn't really exist in gaseous form like Stormlight does. Lift uses it through digestion of food, much like Allomancers burn metals. If Lifelight had an available gaseous form, I would assume there would be some way for Radiants to use it, as WOB says they could use Breaths if they knew how. Ultimately, Investiture is Investiture.

Ah, I may have misinterpreted the conversation. Yeah, a Radiant could probably figure out a way to power their abilities with Lifelight. However, I do not think an ordinary Radiant is going to be able to take it in. If they worked around that, it's probably relatively simple, though, like Venli using VL.

I do expect the situation with Breaths would be more complicated, however, since the various Lights behave more similarly to one another than to Breath, so it makes sense that using Lights in place of one another would be simpler. But theoretically possible, sure.

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I'm mildly horrified of the thought of a Pure Tone for Preservation/Harmony. We see Moash lose whatever emotion suppression Odium granted him with the Anti-Odium tone, implying she drove away the apparent Voidlight that he had to fuel it. 

 

Now recall that the sapience of Scadrians is due to them being slightly more invested by Preservation than Ruin. Would an Anti-Preservation tone essentially remove the sapience of a Scadrians? That extra bit is essentially their "spark of life" that investiture sinks like Nightblood can also feed on... In a similar train of thought, could an Anti-Endowment tone involuntarily make a Nalthian a Drab?

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36 minutes ago, Knight Oblivion said:

I'm mildly horrified of the thought of a Pure Tone for Preservation/Harmony. We see Moash lose whatever emotion suppression Odium granted him with the Anti-Odium tone, implying she drove away the apparent Voidlight that he had to fuel it.

Wasn't Moash losing the emotion suppression because Navani was using adhesion on him? Also since Odium is pure emotion wouldn't anti-void remove your emotion instead of giving them back?

Quote

Now recall that the sapience of Scadrians is due to them being slightly more invested by Preservation than Ruin. Would an Anti-Preservation tone essentially remove the sapience of a Scadrians? That extra bit is essentially their "spark of life" that investiture sinks like Nightblood can also feed on... In a similar train of thought, could an Anti-Endowment tone involuntarily make a Nalthian a Drab?

I'm not sure their sapience comes from Preservation but anti-mist would probably hurt them, at least the metalborns. Breaths are probably harder to move with sound than lights since they're actually supposed to stick to bodies and not leak away.

Edited by mathiau
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1 hour ago, Knight Oblivion said:

I'm mildly horrified of the thought of a Pure Tone for Preservation/Harmony. We see Moash lose whatever emotion suppression Odium granted him with the Anti-Odium tone, implying she drove away the apparent Voidlight that he had to fuel it. 

 

Now recall that the sapience of Scadrians is due to them being slightly more invested by Preservation than Ruin. Would an Anti-Preservation tone essentially remove the sapience of a Scadrians? That extra bit is essentially their "spark of life" that investiture sinks like Nightblood can also feed on... In a similar train of thought, could an Anti-Endowment tone involuntarily make a Nalthian a Drab?

The universe wouldn't work if tones could remove sparks of life. Even if Scadrians are more Preservation than others, anti-Investiture tones being able to remove any spark of life would be narratively difficult to work with.

I suspect that Investiture based "structures" that exist in the Spiritual Realm like souls and Breaths, aren't susceptible to the effects of anti-Investiture tones. They can be affected by anti-Investiture stabbing, but simply hearing a Physical tone can't break through all 3 Realms.

Moash's Connection to Odium was broken by the Sibling, not the tone. Raboniel felt pain, probably due to the Investiture holding her together existing in all 3 Realms. You couldn't kill her with a tone, though.

My conclusion: Physical sound can effect Physical, and maybe Cognitive Investiture. It can't impact Spiritual Investiture.

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2 hours ago, Knight Oblivion said:

I'm mildly horrified of the thought of a Pure Tone for Preservation/Harmony. We see Moash lose whatever emotion suppression Odium granted him with the Anti-Odium tone, implying she drove away the apparent Voidlight that he had to fuel it. 

Its not what happend.

Anti-tone only hurts him and stops him, but he was able to recover relativly quickly. Anti-Rythm was used by Sibling to remove Voidlight from system, and this reset Tower Supressor Fabrials to normal function, and those fabrials cut off Moash from Odium and restore his feelings.

I think Anti-Preservation Tone will have rather modest effects on normal Scadrians. Maybe on metalborn will be bigger. I think more someone is Connected to particular Shard, will be more sensitive for Anti-Tones.

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10 hours ago, mathiau said:

Wasn't Moash losing the emotion suppression because Navani was using adhesion on him? Also since Odium is pure emotion wouldn't anti-void remove your emotion instead of giving them back?

8 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Its not what happend.

Anti-tone only hurts him and stops him, but he was able to recover relativly quickly. Anti-Rythm was used by Sibling to remove Voidlight from system, and this reset Tower Supressor Fabrials to normal function, and those fabrials cut off Moash from Odium and restore his feelings.

I think Anti-Preservation Tone will have rather modest effects on normal Scadrians. Maybe on metalborn will be bigger. I think more someone is Connected to particular Shard, will be more sensitive for Anti-Tones.

It was specifically what happened. There are two instances in which the effect of the Anti-Odium Tone is mentioned. The first was the scene that Navani sung the song, the second being Moash's panicked recounting moments afterwards.
Rhythm of War, Ch. 110

Quote

All it took was Intent. Odium gave her the song,but she twisted it back upon him. She hummed theh song of anti-Voidlight, her hand pressed to the pillar.

Navani! the Sibling said, voice growing stronger. The darkness retreats ever so slightly. What are you doing?

"I... created this for you..." Navani said. "I tried to..."

Navani? the Sibling said. Navani, it's not enough. The song isn't loud enough. It seems to be hurting that man though. He has frozen in place. Navani?

Rhythm of War, Ch. 111

Quote

Moash fled through the tower, using Lashing after Lashing, as he felt the structure rumble. Felt it come alive. Felt light begin to surround him.

Her light. The queen's light.

And before that, a terrible sound. It had pushed away his Connection to Odium, forcing Moash to feel pain for the things he'd done - pain he didn't want. Pain

Moash describes a specific sound as being what removed the emotional pain suppression that Odium gave him. Contrarily, the few times we see people describe the suppression fabrial involves terms like "smothering" and "oppressive", nothing about a "terrible sound." It seems reasonable that either Navani's first singing or the use of the tone to vent the Voidlight from the Sibling were the cause of the loss of Connection.

Now, it comes back afterwards, but it still seems to have been disrupted by the Tone.

9 hours ago, Leuthie said:

The universe wouldn't work if tones could remove sparks of life. Even if Scadrians are more Preservation than others, anti-Investiture tones being able to remove any spark of life would be narratively difficult to work with.

I suspect that Investiture based "structures" that exist in the Spiritual Realm like souls and Breaths, aren't susceptible to the effects of anti-Investiture tones. They can be affected by anti-Investiture stabbing, but simply hearing a Physical tone can't break through all 3 Realms.

Moash's Connection to Odium was broken by the Sibling, not the tone. Raboniel felt pain, probably due to the Investiture holding her together existing in all 3 Realms. You couldn't kill her with a tone, though.

My conclusion: Physical sound can effect Physical, and maybe Cognitive Investiture. It can't impact Spiritual Investiture.

As mentioned above, I am fairly certain that Moash's Connection to Odium was temporarily broken through the tone.

However, you make a good point about it being unlikely that an Anti-Preservation Tone being able to remove a Scadrian's spark of life. I feel like something might happen though. At least some extreme discomfort if not a brown out from them.

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On 1/22/2021 at 9:41 PM, Knight Oblivion said:

Rhythm of War, Ch. 111

Moash describes a specific sound as being what removed the emotional pain suppression that Odium gave him. Contrarily, the few times we see people describe the suppression fabrial involves terms like "smothering" and "oppressive", nothing about a "terrible sound." It seems reasonable that either Navani's first singing or the use of the tone to vent the Voidlight from the Sibling were the cause of the loss of Connection.

Now, it comes back afterwards, but it still seems to have been disrupted by the Tone.

In the first quote, the Sibling mentions that the tone hurts Moash, which is consistent with causing pain with like Invested beings. The second quote is after the Sibling and Navani have bonded and the Sibling switches the anti-Stormlight machine back to anti-Voidlight.

So the pain is caused by the tone. However, the break in Odium's Connection is caused by Navani's bond with the Sibling. Moash knows nothing about the Sibling, so he attributes the Light to Navani alone. I don't have the book in front of me, but I know that Navani and the Sibling bonded just before Raboniel finished unmaking the Sibling and just before Moash was going to kill Navani. I'm almost certain, the reason Moash was rendered blind was because he was standing there with a Connection to Odium when Navani first bonded, sending a super powered dose of Lifelight into his eyes, severing the Connection to Odium and blinding him.

Sounds aren't going to kill anyone or break Connections. They're going to cause Investiture to "flee". So spren will have to disappear or run away and Fused and Regals will feel pain and have their surges cancelled and temporarily blocked.

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