Gavilar's Plans

[jamesbondsmith]

Was Gavilar planning to do what Taravangian did and take up Odium?

'I have discovered the entrance to the realm of gods and legends, and once I join them, my kingdom will never end. I will never end.' Sounds pretty ominous in light of what happened at the end of the book.

He's in contact with Heralds and presumably knows that they are Heralds. He's working to bring Odium's forces back to Roshar, and he has a sphere of Light that is theorised to be able to kill Odium. Perhaps he didn't know that Odium was a literal cosmic force of hate, but he may well have wanted to take up a source of practically infinite power.

[Leuthie]

I think Gavilar thought he knew more than he did. Nale and Kalak, being super insane and all, aren't the best advisors. I'm sure the Feruchemist that gave Venli the sphere that brought the storm was also responsible for some of the spheres Gavilar had. I'm almost certain that he was also in touch with Stormfather/had seen the visions. He was also in the presence of Unmade (effects from Nergaoul and Moelach had been seen prior, and you can't tell me that Ashertmarn was never in Kholinar prior to Oathbringer), as evidenced by the way he treated Navani in the most recent prologue. The man was a mess just before he died.

The guy was a successful warlord with a huge sword (Dalinar) that eventually thought his conquests were evidence of greatness that extended beyond war. He was manipulated into eternal megalomania by multi-thousand year old forces into doing things he barely understood. I'm sure someone convinced him he could take up a Shard. Doesn't mean there was any chance he could do it.

[Sara Stormblessed]

@jamesbondsmith You make an interesting point about Gavilar's plans for immortality. Do you think he really could have known that being the vessel of a god was an option or do you think he was more interested in herald or fused-level immortality? When he said "my kingdom will never end" are you assuming he doesn't simply mean Alethkar?
 

On 12/24/2020 at 9:35 AM, Leuthie said:

 as evidenced by the way he treated Navani in the most recent prologue.

@Leuthie  I don't think Gavilar's interaction with Navani could be considered evidence that he was under the influence of the unmade. If that were the case, then there are a whole bunch of people in the real world similarly influenced. Nah, I think that scene was evidence that marriage and relationships in Roshar are just as complicated and difficult as they are in the real world. Is that level of toxicity something that we should tolerate from our partners? Certainly not. However, married couples using their familiarity with each other to cut deep during arguments is not evidence of super natural forces. Instead, I think Sanderson used this interaction to show us the gritty details about Gavilar and disillusion him as this perfect leader that no one else (Elhokar, Jasnah, Dalinar) could ever live up to. 

However, what you said reminds me strongly of Helaran Davar, both of them got killed messing with powers way out of their depth, albeit on two very different plains. I suppose there are a lot of characters like that in the archive, such as Teft's family and Amaram. Interesting theme...

[Frustration]

I had a thought(Probably wrong, but for the sake of the theory) Gavilar was intentionally awful to Navani and no one else because he wanted her Hatred of him, because he believed that causing that Hatred would help him ascend to Odium.

[AquaRegia]

On 12/24/2020 at 0:35 PM, Leuthie said:

I think Gavilar thought he knew more than he did. Nale and Kalak, being super insane and all, aren't the best advisors... He was manipulated into eternal megalomania by multi-thousand year old forces into doing things he barely understood.

I agree with @Leuthie here...

On 12/30/2020 at 10:07 PM, Sara Stormblessed said:

I don't think Gavilar's interaction with Navani could be considered evidence that he was under the influence of the unmade. If that were the case, then there are a whole bunch of people in the real world similarly influenced. Nah, I think that scene was evidence that marriage and relationships in Roshar are just as complicated and difficult as they are in the real world.

However, what you said reminds me strongly of Helaran Davar, both of them got killed messing with powers way out of their depth, albeit on two very different plains. I suppose there are a lot of characters like that in the archive, such as Teft's family and Amaram. Interesting theme...

...and I agree with Sara here.

We KNOW we'll be learning a lot more about Gavilar's arc in later books, and some people have even speculated he might return as a current character (perhaps as a Cognitive shadow).  I'm confident he knew more than we are so far aware of.  His plans may certainly have included "immortality" in the manner of Heralds or Fused; it's possible he might have been angling for Ascension somehow.  The fact that he got killed supports the idea that he may have been in over his head, but I wouldn't go so far as to put him in the same category as Helaran.  And who knows?  Maybe he didn't even see physical death as the end of his plans.

Newbie question: how do I do the cool tags with other people's usernames in posts?

[Frustration]

17 minutes ago, AquaRegia said:

Newbie question: how do I do the cool tags with other people's usernames in posts?

hit @ then when it loads the names of sharders, begin typing the one you want, and when it comes up, click on it.

[AquaRegia]

43 minutes ago, Frustration said:

hit @ then when it loads the names of sharders, begin typing the one you want, and when it comes up, click on it.

Thanks, but that doesn't work on my Mac - I assume it's a smart phone thing?

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, AquaRegia said:

Thanks, but that doesn't work on my Mac - I assume it's a smart phone thing?

It works on every device I've tried.

Go to the tech discussion and ask there, one of the Staff could help you.

[AquaRegia]

@Frustration in the process of making a post on the tech forum, I finally realized how it works LOL.  Thank you and sorry for that brief detour.

[Shob the Voidbringer]

in the Wok prologue, gavilar tells szeth to tell thaidikar he's too late, before realizing that the parshendi sent szeth. a big question i have is, what would thaidakar be too late for.

[Kyn]

1 hour ago, Shob the Voidbringer said:

in the Wok prologue, gavilar tells szeth to tell thaidikar he's too late, before realizing that the parshendi sent szeth. a big question i have is, what would thaidakar be too late for.

I obviously don’t know, but I assumed it had to do with the strange sphere that wasn’t Voidlight. The one that, in RoW

Spoiler

ends up blowing up when Navani’s people try to study it. The one that can kill at least a Type-2 Invested Entity, and potentially a Shard.

 

[Sara Stormblessed]

6 hours ago, Shob the Voidbringer said:

in the Wok prologue, gavilar tells szeth to tell thaidikar he's too late, before realizing that the parshendi sent szeth. a big question i have is, what would thaidakar be too late for.

Do you think that Gavilar might have had something to do with how Ulim and other void spren managed to escape Braize while Taln was still there? And maybe Thaidakar... didn't want that to happen?