Feruchemical "fill" savants

[The Titan God]

I had an idea that maybe a Feruchemist can have a savantism effect on them because they filled their metalminds too much. The best example for this would be iron (with most skimmers lightly filling an ironmind anyway). This may have the effect of while actively filling it, it stores more weight than the Feruchemist is putting in (like compounding except storing more instead of tapping more), and while not filling they feel much heavier than they should. This could be applied to any metal, but (if possible) I feel iron would be the most likely.

Edited December 23, 2020 by The Titan God

[+Tekiny]

That sounds logical but I think they'd have to not tap their metalminds for a while. Otherwise the action would be net-neutral because you'd get out what you put in.

[Koloss17]

So there was a WoB about how a feruchemist could become a savant. 
 

 

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Questioner

There are Allomantic savants, are there Feruchemical savants?

Brandon Sanderson

Much harder to do. My feeling on Feruchemical savants was because it was your own power in the first place, you can't steep in it so much in the way. But, if you can get someone else's power or if you are fueling your Feruchemy another way, you would become one. So, the Lord Ruler is a good example.

Questioner

Was Miles a...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Miles would be the same sort of thing.

Questioner

Is that why he didn't die as quickly in the execution?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

So yeah. Normally no but if you can Compound you become... basically that is how I am explaining part of the Compounding abilities. 

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

 

so the two ways we know of is through unkeyed metalminds and reverse compounding. There are a handful of metals that would allow you to do this easily. You can reverse compound the fortune from atium, you can reverse compound mental speed from F-steel, you can reverse compound strength using pewter and a pewtermind, and of course there is tin, which is the grandest of them all. The one issue with tin is that since there is so many senses you can store, you would likely be a savant in one sense, not all senses.

[Halyo_Alex]

7 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

mental speed from F-steel

physical speed*

or F-Zinc*

Sorry that just irked me when I saw it

[Narcoleptic Axolotl]

8 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

and of course there is tin, which is the grandest of them all.

I just want to know where you got the idea that tin can store basically anything. Did Brandon ever say steelsight is a sense? Do we have a WoB on storing the 'sense of balance' you get from pewter? I think you can only store hearing, sight, smell, taste, or touch in a tinmind.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

2 hours ago, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

 

10 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

and of course there is tin, which is the grandest of them all.

I just want to know where you got the idea that tin can store basically anything. Did Brandon ever say steelsight is a sense? Do we have a WoB on storing the 'sense of balance' you get from pewter? I think you can only store hearing, sight, smell, taste, or touch in a tinmind.

 

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NewbSombrero

Can Feruchemical tin store Allomantically granted senses like bronze sense?

Brandon Sanderson

Possible.

General Signed Books 2018 (Feb. 8, 2018)

Please. Don’t anger @Koloss17 by insulting tin. You’re lucky I got to you before they did. 
 

But yes, tin minds can store all manner of senses. There’s a different WoB that mentions how a platypus can store its electricity-sense. And since you can see bluelines even when you’re blind (it’s how the inquisitors see) there’s very good reason to believe it’s a separate sense. I even asked brandon a question relying on that assumption and he didn’t correct me. Tin is a really cool metal honestly.

[Narcoleptic Axolotl]

4 minutes ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

Please. Don’t anger @Koloss17 by insulting tin. You’re lucky I got to you before they did. 
 

But yes, tin minds can store all manner of senses. There’s a different WoB that mentions how a platypus can store its electricity-sense. And since you can see bluelines even when you’re blind (it’s how the inquisitors see) there’s very good reason to believe it’s a separate sense. I even asked brandon a question relying on that assumption and he didn’t correct me. Tin is a really cool metal honestly.

Alright, fair.

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PhantomMonstrosity (paraphrased)

Let's say we had a platypus Feruchemist, who can sense electric fields. Could he make a tinmind for that sense?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Platypus tinmind should work.

Steel Ministry report (Aug. 20, 2014)

Here's that platypus WoB. I assume it works for sharks, too. They can sense heartbeats of nearby fish via electric currents. Makes them all the more scary.

I guess F-tin is more useful than I assumed. Still, you have to have a separate tinmind for every sense. If you want to have access to a lot of magic at once, you'd have to have SO many rings and piercings. Or, oooh, I like this idea. Or a chain mail coif or something made of tin links. You could store a different sense in each ring. Then again, the links are very small, and I don't know of any piece of chain armor that's supposed to touch the user's skin. Maybe plate armor makes more sense. But no, that's often padded too. And come to think of it, I don't know that tin would even make good armor. I still think chain metalminds would be cool though.

[Koloss17]

Yeah, basically what @Stormtide_Leviathan said. I did a lot of research into it and asked a lot of questions in the shard to find out what tin can and can’t store. I made lots of posts about it, and I bet ya could find em. I came to the conclusion that it can store a lot of things.

And yeah, wearing a ton of metalminds is one downside. But tons of rings or chain mail would be cool, so it would be fine anyway.

one of the coolest things about tin is being able to store your sense of pain. It would allow you to store pain without tapping it, so you don’t have to wear any rings or chainmail. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Koloss17

[The Titan God]

1 hour ago, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

Alright, fair.

Here's that platypus WoB. I assume it works for sharks, too. They can sense heartbeats of nearby fish via electric currents. Makes them all the more scary.

I guess F-tin is more useful than I assumed. Still, you have to have a separate tinmind for every sense. If you want to have access to a lot of magic at once, you'd have to have SO many rings and piercings. Or, oooh, I like this idea. Or a chain mail coif or something made of tin links. You could store a different sense in each ring. Then again, the links are very small, and I don't know of any piece of chain armor that's supposed to touch the user's skin. Maybe plate armor makes more sense. But no, that's often padded too. And come to think of it, I don't know that tin would even make good armor. I still think chain metalminds would be cool though.

Or you could have some sort of pure tin chain necklace each ring can store a different sense, and at most times you are always touching each one, there would also be like 20-30 rings and not all of the rings have to store a different sense.

[Narcoleptic Axolotl]

17 hours ago, The Titan God said:

Or you could have some sort of pure tin chain necklace each ring can store a different sense, and at most times you are always touching each one, there would also be like 20-30 rings and not all of the rings have to store a different sense.

A necklace would be good. I'd go for a relatively thick chain, to give yourself more space in your metalminds. I could also see someone wearing a tin skullcap. According to this picture,

Spoiler

it doesn't look like he has any padding between the metal and his head, so that could be a metalmind. And, if you'll notice, he also seems to be wearing a gambeson over a mail hauberk. I imagine it's just to catch arrows that go through the gambeson, and chances are he has a thin fabric shirt to keep the mail from rubbing against his skin, but it may be that it's touching his skin in such a way that he could be storing attributes in those links.

19 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

one of the coolest things about tin is being able to store your sense of pain. It would allow you to store pain without tapping it, so you don’t have to wear any rings or chainmail. 

Could you clarify? I've read that a few times and I don't know what you mean.

[Kingsdaughter613]

29 minutes ago, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

A necklace would be good. I'd go for a relatively thick chain, to give yourself more space in your metalminds. I could also see someone wearing a tin skullcap. According to this picture,

  Hide contents

it doesn't look like he has any padding between the metal and his head, so that could be a metalmind. And, if you'll notice, he also seems to be wearing a gambeson over a mail hauberk. I imagine it's just to catch arrows that go through the gambeson, and chances are he has a thin fabric shirt to keep the mail from rubbing against his skin, but it may be that it's touching his skin in such a way that he could be storing attributes in those links.

Could you clarify? I've read that a few times and I don't know what you mean.

What about a necklace of tin beads?

[Koloss17]

45 minutes ago, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

 

Could you clarify? I've read that a few times and I don't know what you mean.

So as a tin feruchemist, a Ferring could store their sense of pain, meaning that they would not feel pain. There isn’t many a reason to tap to increase your sense of pain, so likely you would throw out the ring or bracer you are using to store it. That would bypass the need to have a ton of rings, for that sense, at least.

[Narcoleptic Axolotl]

20 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

What about a necklace of tin beads?

That's not a bad idea either. I wonder which gets you more volume of tin per length of chain.

3 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

So as a tin feruchemist, a Ferring could store their sense of pain, meaning that they would not feel pain. There isn’t many a reason to tap to increase your sense of pain, so likely you would throw out the ring or bracer you are using to store it. That would bypass the need to have a ton of rings, for that sense, at least.

That would be so nice! Of course, you do have to worry about overexerting your body at that point. Pain exists for a very good reason. But there are situations that it just gets in the way, so I don't think you would never want to store pain. Like if you had a headache you could just store it until you can take a nap or something. Or, and this is a very extreme and risky situation, if you're in a fight and you have a broken limb, you might decide it's a good idea to store the pain to finish the fight. I don't know. But yeah, throwing away a filled pain-tinmind makes sense.

[The Titan God]

11 hours ago, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

A necklace would be good. I'd go for a relatively thick chain, to give yourself more space in your metalminds. 

Does the size of a metalmind affect how much of an attribute you can store?

[Dancer]

If you had access to all those senses then it would be more efficient to just burn A-Tin. It enhances all senses at once so you wouldn't need to carry all those metalminds. If you happened to be a compounder as well then you would only need to wear a few rings to store some of the unwanted senses like increased pain. Another benefit of A-Tin is that it is extremely slow burning. Second only to Copper for slowest burn rate. 

[Narcoleptic Axolotl]

9 hours ago, The Titan God said:

Does the size of a metalmind affect how much of an attribute you can store?

Yes, the volume of the metal does affect the amount you can store in it. From the coppermind:

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A larger piece of metal will be able to store more of an attribute . . .

Edit: if you want a direct WoB,

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Questioner

I was wondering if the size of a piece of metal determines the amount of Feruchemical charge that can be stored in it.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

So how does that scale, like, in terms of the volume or mass of the metal or...

Brandon Sanderson

It-- So I've talked about this before, I'm trying to remember exactly what I've told people-- It does not scale as logically as you think it does. How about that? It's more like certain thresholds. You can have a-- You can store a Hemalurgic or Feruchemical charge even in very small pieces of metal, but larger pieces of metal will let you get more.

Questioner

So it's kind of like there are different classes of sizes?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, kind of like that.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by Narcoleptic Axolotl
Added WoB

[The Titan God]

8 hours ago, Dancer said:

If you had access to all those senses then it would be more efficient to just burn A-Tin. It enhances all senses at once so you wouldn't need to carry all those metalminds. If you happened to be a compounder as well then you would only need to wear a few rings to store some of the unwanted senses like increased pain. Another benefit of A-Tin is that it is extremely slow burning. Second only to Copper for slowest burn rate. 

Except, sometimes you only want to enhance one (or two) specific sense(s), instead of all of them.

[Obsidian_]

Can you force someone to tap their metalminds? Just being slightly evil here... 

Imagine a nicrosil allomancer with an unkeyed tinmind. If you fill that with, eg pain, push it against someone and then burn nicrosil to give them a nice boost... Having a thick ring that you can both use as a knuckle duster, fill with your own pain and give to someone else during a fight would be really cool ^^

[The Titan God]

1 hour ago, Obsidian_ said:

Can you force someone to tap their metalminds? Just being slightly evil here... 

Imagine a nicrosil allomancer with an unkeyed tinmind. If you fill that with, eg pain, push it against someone and then burn nicrosil to give them a nice boost... Having a thick ring that you can both use as a knuckle duster, fill with your own pain and give to someone else during a fight would be really cool ^^

If this happened it would be possible for other people to feel the pain in the metalmind, however, they would have to purposefully tap the metalmind, so it isn't really forcing them

[Kingsdaughter613]

1 hour ago, The Titan God said:

If this happened it would be possible for other people to feel the pain in the metalmind, however, they would have to purposefully tap the metalmind, so it isn't really forcing them

But maybe using some other allomantic technologies..,

[Dancer]

From everything that we know you can't force someone to tap a metalmind. Someone has to Intend to tap for the investiture to flow through them. However if someone was already tapping their metalminds it is perfectly reasonable to assume that you could then Nicoburst them. This would result in them using up all their stored Investiture in whatever metal they were tapping at the time. If they were tapping health then they would now be extremely vulnerable. 

[The Titan God]

On 27/12/2020 at 3:00 PM, Dancer said:

From everything that we know you can't force someone to tap a metalmind. Someone has to Intend to tap for the investiture to flow through them. However if someone was already tapping their metalminds it is perfectly reasonable to assume that you could then Nicoburst them. This would result in them using up all their stored Investiture in whatever metal they were tapping at the time. If they were tapping health then they would now be extremely vulnerable. 

Or leech it with chromium, because if they (somehow) were to be struck with a lethal blow when their investiture was boosted, they would survive.