Crack theory: Adolin is already an Edgedancer

[GroundPetrel]

3 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

The "curse" is that it takes a part of his spirit to heal her, causing the much-theorized "reverse nahel bond" (or lehan bond as I saw once, which actually doesn't sound half bad) to take place.

That would be pretty cool.  How would that even work, though?  Maybe a roundabout way of becoming like Lift?  

(honestly I think Adolin and Lift would be best friends, lol.  He'd actively help her in her attempts to steal his food, she'd act put out about this, they team up to give Kaladin a hug or something.  XD)

[Halyo_Alex]

13 hours ago, GroundPetrel said:

That would be pretty cool.  How would that even work, though?  Maybe a roundabout way of becoming like Lift?  

Possibly. Well, let's think about what the Nahel Bond does.

It gives the Spren sapience in the Physical Realm, while giving the human access to the Surges to fuel with Stormlight.

so if we flip-reverse this...

the Lehan Bond would give Adolin... more awareness of the Cognitive Realm? Maybe able to see both at the same time, kind of superimposed? Or maybe one eye shows him the Cognitive Realm, that would be thematically fitting with Maya being restored from a "dead-eye" state. And then... Well, it would give Maya her emotions and awareness back, filling in the gap in her spirit that makes her a Deadeye in the first place.

13 hours ago, GroundPetrel said:

(honestly I think Adolin and Lift would be best friends, lol.  He'd actively help her in her attempts to steal his food, she'd act put out about this, they team up to give Kaladin a hug or something.  XD)

Oh definitely. I could totally see Lift trying to act like his boss or something, but it just comes off as adorable Lift moments.

[GroundPetrel]

9 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Possibly. Well, let's think about what the Nahel Bond does.

It gives the Spren sapience in the Physical Realm, while giving the human access to the Surges to fuel with Stormlight.

so if we flip-reverse this...

the Lehan Bond would give Adolin... more awareness of the Cognitive Realm? Maybe able to see both at the same time, kind of superimposed? Or maybe one eye shows him the Cognitive Realm, that would be thematically fitting with Maya being restored from a "dead-eye" state. And then... Well, it would give Maya her emotions and awareness back, filling in the gap in her spirit that makes her a Deadeye in the first place.

Oh definitely. I could totally see Lift trying to act like his boss or something, but it just comes off as adorable Lift moments.

It might be something like constant superimposition of the cognitive realm over his Physical vision?  That could actually be a huge tactical advantage too.  With an accompanying weakness of being super vulnerable to stuff that hits at the Cognitive realm, or needing constant Investiture input to live sorta like a Returned?  

 

LOL yeah Lift would do that but also Adolin would take her seriously and be super respectful which would probably mystify her.  XD

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, GroundPetrel said:

It might be something like constant superimposition of the cognitive realm over his Physical vision?  That could actually be a huge tactical advantage too.  With an accompanying weakness of being super vulnerable to stuff that hits at the Cognitive realm, or needing constant Investiture input to live sorta like a Returned?  

AFAIK Spren do consume Stormlight as an energy source, maybe Adolin can breathe in stormlight to help make Maya more cognizant and sharp-minded for as long as he can keep himself filled with it.

And yeah being able to constantly see the Cognitive comes at some serious ups and downs. I mean we see Venli use Transportation to do that, and it's great for seeing approaching Fused coming from a mile away with their unique souls. Though yes, he may be vulnerable to being attacked from the Cognitive, which means anyone who can't dip into Shadesmar can't help... OH WAIT, Shallan can.

Just now, GroundPetrel said:

LOL yeah Lift would do that but also Adolin would take her seriously and be super respectful which would probably mystify her.  XD

Something something starvin' voidbringer...

[GroundPetrel]

59 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Something something starvin' voidbringer...

"OK, so if you want to be awesome, think about not being sticky!  Being sticky is not awesome, being fast is awesome.  So think about going fast and not being sticky, and you'll be awesome like me!"  

"Uh, OK...AUGH!"  *Adolin goes flying off with no friction at all and careens off of a ledge*

"NOT THAT AWESOME!!!"  

*Kaladin swoops in to save Adolin*

[Halyo_Alex]

1 hour ago, GroundPetrel said:

"OK, so if you want to be awesome, think about not being sticky!  Being sticky is not awesome, being fast is awesome.  So think about going fast and not being sticky, and you'll be awesome like me!"  

"Uh, OK...AUGH!"  *Adolin goes flying off with no friction at all and careens off of a ledge*

"NOT THAT AWESOME!!!"  

*Kaladin swoops in to save Adolin*

Although, I'm not even 100% sure Adolin would gain Surgebinding from the reverse nahel bond, since the "extra power", so to speak, is going from him to Maya to restore her awareness.

[RIP Sureblood]

On 12/21/2020 at 6:11 PM, robardin said:

And his being able to give "strength of life" to Maya to speak, instead of the other way around (a spren granting access to Investiture to a bonded human), at his trial in Lasting Integrity... That certainly feels like what I called a Lehan bond (reverse Nahel) at work.

You know it's funny you should mention that because I was thinking, what if Adolin for the most part remained powerless, only having Maya around him as like a friend or something, and SHE was the one who got radiant powers as an edge dancer and used it to heal all the dead eyes, or maybe Adolin's healing powers will only work on deadeyes or something

[Elsecaller_17.5]

Going to say what I always say.  Adolin is already a Pseudo-Radient. He summoned Maya without delay in OB that's a big deal.

[WasingtheWhy]

On 12/30/2020 at 8:45 PM, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

Going to say what I always say.  Adolin is already a Pseudo-Radient. He summoned Maya without delay in OB that's a big deal.

Totally a big deal. And the fact that it was so casually passed over and hasn't been mentioned just made me think it was the start of something much bigger for Adolin than just becoming another Radiant.

I was thinking about this recently. The whole bonding process begins with a spren basically taking interest in a human (or singer, let's be inclusive). Then the potential Radiant has to say the Words. That's two halves coming together. Reciprocated on both sides. Equal, right? But Maya is a deadeye. It started the opposite way, human choosing a spren. And she is regaining capacity. Slowly, yes, but still regaining it. Now, the honorspren are all slivers of Honor, essentially, right? But all the Radiants use Stormlight, which is Honor's Investiture. But in RoW, we learn of different types of light. We knew of Voidlight already, but then we have Lifelight, Towerlight, and the Rhythm of War. Maya is a cultivationspren. Which are Cultivation's children, kind of like the honorspren with Honor. (None of it is exact, as of course the Stormfather made some honorspren, too, but that part isn't what I am grabbing at here.) And now we know that Lift doesn't use Stormlight, she uses Lifelight directly. As far as any of us know, she can't breathe in Stormlight the way that the other Radiants do. It's never been spoken of directly, that I know of, but she always just eats and metabolizes Lifelight directly. 

I guess the point I am trying to figure out is what if Adolin is indeed already a Radiant, and just doesn't know it. He can't breathe in Stormlight, because that's not what he is. Maybe, just maybe, Lifelight is his jam, and his learning to use that Investiture is the real key to "healing" Maya? Adolin and Lift could be Radiants, but really something more. Something that they hadn't seen before. And because of Adolin's relationship to Maya and how he is "cultivating" it (see what I did, there?), at some point he will probably gain Cultivation's attention. Perhaps it is the first step is getting Cultivation to take a more direct hand in the events happening on Roshar. As it stand right now, she has just been a silent-silent partner. Being involved without being really involved.

Anyway, I am rambling, but the whole Adolin thing really is one of my favorite parts about the story, and I love the implications involved with how Maya is changing.

[GroundPetrel]

55 minutes ago, WasingtheWhy said:

Totally a big deal. And the fact that it was so casually passed over and hasn't been mentioned just made me think it was the start of something much bigger for Adolin than just becoming another Radiant.

I was thinking about this recently. The whole bonding process begins with a spren basically taking interest in a human (or singer, let's be inclusive). Then the potential Radiant has to say the Words. That's two halves coming together. Reciprocated on both sides. Equal, right? But Maya is a deadeye. It started the opposite way, human choosing a spren. And she is regaining capacity. Slowly, yes, but still regaining it. Now, the honorspren are all slivers of Honor, essentially, right? But all the Radiants use Stormlight, which is Honor's Investiture. But in RoW, we learn of different types of light. We knew of Voidlight already, but then we have Lifelight, Towerlight, and the Rhythm of War. Maya is a cultivationspren. Which are Cultivation's children, kind of like the honorspren with Honor. (None of it is exact, as of course the Stormfather made some honorspren, too, but that part isn't what I am grabbing at here.) And now we know that Lift doesn't use Stormlight, she uses Lifelight directly. As far as any of us know, she can't breathe in Stormlight the way that the other Radiants do. It's never been spoken of directly, that I know of, but she always just eats and metabolizes Lifelight directly. 

I guess the point I am trying to figure out is what if Adolin is indeed already a Radiant, and just doesn't know it. He can't breathe in Stormlight, because that's not what he is. Maybe, just maybe, Lifelight is his jam, and his learning to use that Investiture is the real key to "healing" Maya? Adolin and Lift could be Radiants, but really something more. Something that they hadn't seen before. And because of Adolin's relationship to Maya and how he is "cultivating" it (see what I did, there?), at some point he will probably gain Cultivation's attention. Perhaps it is the first step is getting Cultivation to take a more direct hand in the events happening on Roshar. As it stand right now, she has just been a silent-silent partner. Being involved without being really involved.

Anyway, I am rambling, but the whole Adolin thing really is one of my favorite parts about the story, and I love the implications involved with how Maya is changing.

OK, that would be super cool!  Honestly Adolin and Lift share a lot despite their wildly differnt backgrounds, having them work together to learn stuff would be awesome.  Especially with her figuring stuff out first and then teaching him to be awesome like her.  

[Honorspring]

On 12/20/2020 at 9:30 PM, Nameless said:

Well, swearing oaths only really matters for Windrunners, Bondsmiths, and maybe Stonewards.

This is not true. While Lift didn't speak her third Ideal, she did think it and for any other Edgedancer that wouldn't have worked. Lift is just seriously weird because of Cultivation's boon and curse. For Lightweavers, the truths they speak are their oaths, except instead of being a promise of how they will use their power it is a truth that makes them face a lie about themselves, thus become a better person more worthy of weilding the surges. Willshapers, we just saw Venli deal and struggle with in Rhythm of War. Their oaths likewise make them better and more deserving of their powers. And Skybreakers oaths are the same way. While they may seem easy, it is clear that an oath has to be meant, the Intent has to be there, for the spren to accept it, then goes for second judgement to a higher spren such as the Stormfather, Sibling, or Cultivation apparently? Ishar thrust the Ideals upon the Radiants to ensure that only those who are worthy could progress

[NameIess]

Just now, Honorspring said:

This is not true. While Lift didn't speak her third Ideal, she did think it and for any other Edgedancer that wouldn't have worked. Lift is just seriously weird because of Cultivation's boon and curse. For Lightweavers, the truths they speak are their oaths, except instead of being a promise of how they will use their power it is a truth that makes them face a lie about themselves, thus become a better person more worthy of weilding the surges. Willshapers, we just saw Venli deal and struggle with in Rhythm of War. Their oaths likewise make them better and more deserving of their powers. And Skybreakers oaths are the same way. While they may seem easy, it is clear that an oath has to be meant, the Intent has to be there, for the spren to accept it, then goes for second judgement to a higher spren such as the Stormfather, Sibling, or Cultivation apparently? Ishar thrust the Ideals upon the Radiants to ensure that only those who are worthy could progress

Well, what I meant was that only those orders get an immediate "power boost" from swearing a new ideal. The other orders get increased efficiency, but they don't get a boost of Stormlight or anything.

[Honorspring]

On 12/20/2020 at 10:25 AM, GroundPetrel said:

Anyway that's my crack theory of the day, thoughts?  

I think that Adolin is on his way to becoming a Stoneward. Mainly because the Radiant symbol at the beginning of parts 2 and 4 of Rhythm of War are the symbol of the order of Stonewards (part 2 is when the journey to Shadesmar begins, part 4 is when Adolin goes through the trial and defends Maya, and those are the only two parts where Adolin is a viewpoint charachter). Also, I think its too convenient for Adolin to naturally align to the order of the blade that he was given by his father, and I doubt that the blade had an effect on his personality as we haven't seen this with any other character. Stonewards are dependable and resourceful, and Adolin was dependable all over the books, but namely when he went to save Notum, when Kaladin was in jail, when the thunderclast had beat the crap out of him and he just kept fighting, when Shallan was falling apart and he was always there for her, when Kaladin is breaking down in part one of RoW, and when Maya was in pain and needed support. His resourcefulness shows in his fight with the thunderclast when he uses brain to defeat it rather than brawn, when he uses the starspren to get Shallan to show herself for long enough to communicate with her, and making his outfits even when he sews himself one from various other clothes aboard the Lightspren ship.

[Honorspring]

16 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Well, what I meant was that only those orders get an immediate "power boost" from swearing a new ideal. The other orders get increased efficiency, but they don't get a boost of Stormlight or anything.

Ohhhhhhhh, okay I see. Well I think its just Windrunners and Bondsmiths because they have the surge of adhesion, Honor's own surge. It would be cool for stonewards to get it as well but I don't think that will be the case

[GroundPetrel]

1 hour ago, Honorspring said:

I think that Adolin is on his way to becoming a Stoneward. Mainly because the Radiant symbol at the beginning of parts 2 and 4 of Rhythm of War are the symbol of the order of Stonewards (part 2 is when the journey to Shadesmar begins, part 4 is when Adolin goes through the trial and defends Maya, and those are the only two parts where Adolin is a viewpoint charachter). Also, I think its too convenient for Adolin to naturally align to the order of the blade that he was given by his father, and I doubt that the blade had an effect on his personality as we haven't seen this with any other character. Stonewards are dependable and resourceful, and Adolin was dependable all over the books, but namely when he went to save Notum, when Kaladin was in jail, when the thunderclast had beat the crap out of him and he just kept fighting, when Shallan was falling apart and he was always there for her, when Kaladin is breaking down in part one of RoW, and when Maya was in pain and needed support. His resourcefulness shows in his fight with the thunderclast when he uses brain to defeat it rather than brawn, when he uses the starspren to get Shallan to show herself for long enough to communicate with her, and making his outfits even when he sews himself one from various other clothes aboard the Lightspren ship.

Adolin won Maya in a duel, against another nobleman (Tinalar or Tanalan, I think), when he was still pretty young.  Adolin also shows a lot of Edgedancer traits: 

1. "Yeah, I know I'm in another highprince's warcamp and starting a fight would likely cause a civil war AND I'm supposed to be heading to a super important meeting but some random prostitute is being beaten up so I'm going to threaten to Shardblade the guy beating her up and then blow off the meeting to get her home."  
2. "I know this dumbass darkeyes who I've been clashing with for months and who I KNOW lied to my father's face and is hiding something just destroyed the plan we spent months on and I nearly died for, destabilizing the kingdom in the process, but his imprisonment is clearly unjust so I'm going to prison in protest!"  
3. "My sword is actually a person who has been horribly maimed and probably hates me for using her to slaughter?  Oh crap, that's storming awful.  I'd better try to make amends by taking care of her while we're running for our lives from Odium's minions."  
4. "Oh storms, oh storms, this 50-foot rock monster is going to pulp me and I have no Plate, I already nearly died once today, I'm going to die I've got to move keep moving don't stop--storms I think I might've heard a kid back there, gotta go back right now!"  
5. "OK, this mission is probably a bust, I'm going to bet it all on something that would definitely give my dad a heart attack--Hey, you prissy jerks!  You want to put somebody on trial?  Put me on trial!"  
6. "LISTEN TO MAYA, YOU JERKOFFS!  STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO HER MOUTH AND LET HER TALK!"  

His biggest dramatic moments are all Edgedancer.  Taking care of the little guy at great personal risk (prostitute, kid in Thaylenah--if Adolin had actually started a fight in Sadeas's warcamp, he would have been punished, severely, to prevent a civil war); emphasis on listening to the forgotten/little people (Kaladin, Maya, arguably his helping Shallan is this because he's asking for Shallan Davar, not her badass alter egos), healing others (everything he does with Maya is about trying to help her heal through supportive long-term care).  

His ethos also seems less about duty and dependability and more about "somebody should do good, good needs to be done, I am badass, I should do it because I am capable and it might as well be me", the kind of opportunistic doing of good that seems to be the Edgedancers' purview.  I will admit that he shows some traits that smell more of Releaser or Stoneward--but at the same time, you see Kaladin, the Windrunner's Windrunner, doing surgery, protesting societal injustice, and in his darkest moments falling more towards Nale's corrupted Skybreakers in some ways (Syl even points this out).  I think people can go in fitting several Radiant orders at once, but as they progress they learn to fit closer to the Ideal of the order that fits them best.